ROD BUILDING?

rw wrote:

I like nice tools as much as anyone (well, maybe not anyone),

Yeah, not with Claspy on this group.

but I also
get satisfaction out of "making do" when I don't have exactly the right
tool, especially when it saves me money.

I can relate to that as well. I also like making my own tools. I
currently use three different homemade wooden handplanes and a couple of
spokeshaves, plus tons of various jigs for my woodworking.

But guess what? When I set about to make those tools, I used the
most effective tools I owned to do the job.

When I bought a Leatherman tool a couple of years ago I showed it to my
daughter, who was about 12 years old at the time. She thought it was
pretty cool and she went all over the house finding things for me to
fix, challenging me to use only the Leatherman. It was a hoot.

So after the experiment did you continue using the Leatherman for
everything? :-)


Chuck Vance

On 10/21/05 10:56 AM, in article , "Conan The
Librarian" wrote:

At the risk of going even further afield -- I wonder if this is
another one of those cases of guys who are process-oriented vs. results
oriented. My hobbies are very much focused on the process.

Well, when you fish with Willi, you'll see that he does very well with that
whole "results" thing.

:-)

Bill
(whose first hand built rod will probably be bamboo, likely unfishable...
RW, hand me that Leatherman when you're through with it :-)

William Claspy wrote:
On 10/21/05 9:35 AM, in article , "Willi"
wrote:


I often find that using complex tools etc. for small projects can make a
job more difficult because of setup time.


Often times the best tools are the simplest. And not always the most
expensive. Particularly for the do-it-yourself'er, complex tools are
frequently NOT what they need. Though occasionally it is what they seem to
want. :-)

To follow Chuck's analogy- I've not built a rod so I can't speak directly to
that experience- if I need to put a chamfer on a piece of lumber trim
(something everyone from a cabinetmaker to a weekend d-i-y'er to a rod
builder might need to do), I can spend hundreds on a Bosch router, router
table, and dust collection system, which I then need to spend a good 10 or
15 minutes getting the correct chamfer bit chocked, correct height of the
bit, set the fence on the table, then finally cut the chamfer amidst the
roar of all that machinery.

Or I can spend a little over a hundred bucks on the best block plane I can
find, take 30 seconds to get the blade advanced, maybe a minute to mark the
two sides of the chamfer (if I even bother), take a few quiet swipes of the
plane and I'm done.

I don't know if that qualifies as "fun", but I for one get immense
satisfaction from completing a task by using a fine tool (and sometimes that
fine tool cost no more than a cup of coffee and the morning paper) in a
manner that my great grandfather might have done. Equally satisfying-
though again perhaps not "fun"- clamping a #16 hook in my simple but sturdy
Thompson vise and tying a fly. Neither tool was cheap, nor particularly
expensive, but both pay themselves off each time I use them.

And the above, of course, does not even speak to the satisfaction gained by
using a tool I've built myself, be that a rod (hypothetically of course), a
fly, a trout net, or the table from which I compose this note.

Bill


I think that just depends on how far you want to go with things. Taking
your chamfer example. The easiest is to buy a piece of lumber that
already has the chamfer cut. The farthest out is to cut down and process
your own lumber, using tools you made yourself, then cut that chamfer
with a block plane that you made yourself.

I think most people can build a functionally excellent rod with no
special tools the first time and save considerable money (not counting
their labor).

Rod building/assembly is NOT difficult. For rod building simple tools
are the norm. You can buy fancy electric rod wrapping rigs and lathes
for turning handles. A couple slits cut into a cardboard box or a simple
stand made of scrap wood works just as well for wrapping guides -
although slower. A lathe or drill stand is best for forming a "perfect"
handle, but it can be done by hand or most simply, just buy a preformed
handle. A rod turner does make it easier to put on an even coat of epoxy
finish and keeping that finish even, but it can be done well without
one, you just have to remember to keep turning the rod from time to time
(definitely not a strong point for me). Or you can use a multicoat
"varnish" finish which is less critical and easy to do totally by hand.

Willi

On 10/21/05 11:09 AM, in article , "Willi"
wrote:

I think that just depends on how far you want to go with things. Taking
your chamfer example. The easiest is to buy a piece of lumber that
already has the chamfer cut.

Or go to the grocery and buy a foam and Saran packed trout!

The farthest out is to cut down and process
your own lumber, using tools you made yourself, then cut that chamfer
with a block plane that you made yourself.

Um, I don't think I'll be giving anything away if I admit to being very,
very close to this end of things. But that's just me. :-)

I think most people can build a functionally excellent rod with no
special tools the first time and save considerable money (not counting
their labor).

That is good to know. And, if I'm gauging you correctly, you would say that
the important thing is to get that rod out onto the water and fish it. No
argument here.

I've given rod assembly a thought from time to time. Certainly tool-wise,
I've got what I'd need. But somehow, and I think I'll blame Wayne Knight
for this one, I think I'll wait until I have the cajones to take on a bamboo
rod. At which point the learning curve gets kind of steep. Heck, I've got
the Garrison/Carmichael book sitting right here next to me, and it scares me
every time I read through it. And I'm not easily scared when it comes to
building stuff at a bench.

BTW Willi, thanks for putting up that web page TR from your and Bruiser's
trip. Made me realize it was three years ago nearly to the day that we took
on the Big Thompson together. I'm thinking about the San Juan this year,
hope we get to share a line if I do!

Cheers,
Bill

In article , says...

BTW does anyone have plans for a rod turner? It seems that this is a
necessary piece of equipment.


Find yourself a cardboard box, about 2 ft. wide by 1 ft. deep by
1 ft. tall, give or take. Cut off the top, and the front side,
and then cut V-notches, about two inches deep on each of the sides
for the blank to sit in. Cut one pair of notches for each section
of the blank. Total cost: $0 (assuming you scavenge the box out
of a dumpster, and that you already own a utility knife or sturdy
scissors.)

Instructions for use: Put one section of the rod in the front
pair of notches. Using a thick epoxy varnish like Flex-Coat, load
up a brush, touch it to the wraps, and rotate the blank with your
other hand. When you have coated all the wraps, move it to the back
and start on the next section. For the next beer or so, give each
section a quarter turn every minute. For the next couple of beers,
give each section a quarter turn every 5 minutes or so. Try not
to use the hand you have been using to eat the chips to turn the
blanks.

That said, I built a rod-turning stand with stands that adjust in
sliding dovetails and thread tensioners (which actually are less
functional than using my fingers). It looks kinda classy, but I
don't think it improved the rod-building process any.

Kevin

--
reply to:
kevin dot vang at minotstateu dot edu

Willi typed:
Tim J. wrote:
rw typed:

Conan The Librarian wrote:

IOW, why use something that you
have to fight, rather than something that makes it enjoyable.

Money.

That doesn't make a lot of sense. Why spend a dime if it's not
enjoyable?

Most of what I spend my money on isn't "enjoyable".

Me, too, but we're discussing rod building.

Part of the reason many people build their own rods is to save money.
(Which is definitely true if you discount your own time) Making a rod
is "fun" in the same way that tying flies is "fun." I also don't
think that Conan's analogy fits rod building (actually rod
assembling). I don't think that in rod building the lack of
specialized tools means that you're going to have to "fight" anything
or that the use of those specialized tools is going to make it more
enjoyable.

To some extent, I agree. But I've found certain tasks flow properly with
better tools, which may or may not be the case with rod building. I can't
speak to that specifically because I've never built one. I do know that good
quality kitchen knives that hold their edge are better than the
garden-variety POS type you find in most stores, and make chopping/cutting
safer and more enjoyable. I know a good quality, properly sharpened saw that
holds its set beats the hell out of a K-Mart saw that craps out in the first
few strokes. I also know a chain saw beats hell out of a hand saw when
cutting down a large tree. Rod building may not fit any of these models or
may be somewhere in between (requiring a few very good tools to make the job
easier.)
--
TL,
Tim
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj/

"Conan The Librarian" wrote in message
...
...At the risk of going even further afield -- I wonder if this is another
one of those cases of guys who are process-oriented vs. results oriented.
My hobbies are very much focused on the process.

For most of us, most of the time, it's a sort of hybrid. Very few of us
will bother to grow our own trees for lumber or make our own carbon fiber
sheeting.....or whatever the hell it's called. Nor will many of us buy a
vintage Record plane or a Winston rod and then pay someone to use it for us.


Wolfgang

Conan The Librarian wrote:
Willi wrote:

Most of what I spend my money on isn't "enjoyable".


But the disposable income you spend on your *hobby* should be to make
it more enjoyable. Otherwise why would you even pursue it?

Most of it is a necessity. ie cost of getting to a place, food while I'm
there, licenses etc.



Part of the reason many people build their own rods is to save money.
(Which is definitely true if you discount your own time) Making a rod
is "fun" in the same way that tying flies is "fun." I also don't think
that Conan's analogy fits rod building (actually rod assembling). I
don't think that in rod building the lack of specialized tools means
that you're going to have to "fight" anything or that the use of those
specialized tools is going to make it more enjoyable.


We've come a long way from original point, which was simply to point
out the irony in Steve's comment that you can get by just as well with
something cheap. If that were the case, I daresay we wouldn't be
fishing with expensive rods and reels, or spending our money on rotary
vises, or any of the other things we choose to do to in pursuit of our
hobbies.


I don't think I enjoy fly fishing any more now that I own a bunch of
gear than I did when I owned one rod. I view my gear from a functional
viewpoint. Unlike alot of people, I don't get much pleasure from just
owning things.



Anyhow, not having "assembled" any rods, I can't speak to the
specialized tools that are (or aren't) needed. But I know that if I
were to take up building bamboo rods, I would care very much about the
tools I was using.


Constructing a bamboo rod is a different subject. Assembling a rod is
what was being discussed.


I've built a number of rods and the only piece of "equipment" I own is
a turner I use when applying the finish and while the rod is drying
(it was made by and given to me by Charley W - thanks Charley). It
does result in "prettier" wraps but I wouldn't say it makes it more
enjoyable/fun.


Does it make it easier?


For me it does because I always forgot to turn the rod while it was
drying. (But a little sag in the finish doesn't affect how the rod will
cast.)



I often find that using complex tools etc. for small projects can make
a job more difficult because of setup time.


Absolutely. I woodwork with mostly handtools these days, and one of
the reasons why is that when I used powertools, I found that I was
spending a great majority of my time doing setup, and very little
actually working wood. Since woodworking is my hobby, I started looking
for ways to maximize my enjoyment of it while still being able to
perform the tasks I needed to.

The right tool for the job doesn't have to be complex (or expensive),
but it will make the task easier. That holds true for woodworking,
flyfishing, fly tying, etc., etc.

And in general, I find it funny that we are discussing "getting by on
the cheap" on a group that is populated by a large number of
self-proclaimed gear whores.


Chuck Vance (not that there's anything wrong with that)


That depends on how your view your equipment. A "gear whore" by my
definition is someone that gets pleasure out of just owning the gear,
not from using it. By that definition, I don't think most people here
are "gear whores".

Willi

Kevin Vang typed:
snip
. . .For the next beer or so, give each
section a quarter turn every minute. For the next couple of beers,
give each section a quarter turn every 5 minutes or so. Try not
to use the hand you have been using to eat the chips to turn the
blanks.

SPLORK!
(I like how your mind works.)
--
TL,
Tim
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj/

Conan The Librarian wrote:

So after the experiment did you continue using the Leatherman for
everything? :-)

I don't use it for everything, but I use it quite a bit. I love that
tool. It's beautifully designed and manufactured and it's very
versatile. Willi used it to fix his Okuma reel when the handle fell off
on our Alaska trip.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.