Another Pipeline Believer

"Cal Vanize" wrote in message
news
Wolfgang wrote:
"Cal Vanize" wrote in message
...
Wolfgang wrote:

The American west doesn't need MORE water. What it needs is a few tens
of millions LESS human parasites.




You sound suspiciously like an Austrian making a similar statement in
the thirties.

Interesting. Not surprising that an Austrian would know more about the
reality of the American west than most of the people who live
there......but interesting, nevertheless.

Wolfgang is a popular Austrian nickname.

No, it isn't.

Wolfgang

Actually it is.

Actually, no, it isn't.

And it is in Germany.

Nope.

So you agree with the extermination of millions of American "parasites"
(as you call them).

I do? Hm......maybe some day you could give us a short dissertation on how
you divine these astonishing revelations.

But that's no surprise.

Oh, there's no surprises at all in this exchange. And there won't be any in
the future either, will there?

Wolfgang

On Jul 30, 3:03 pm, "Wolfgang" wrote:
"BJ Conner" wrote in message

oups.com...



On Jul 30, 11:41 am, "Bob Weinberger"
wrote:
"Wolfgang" wrote in message

...

Sorta makes a boy nostalgic for the good old days (say, circa 1969 or
thereabouts) when he could just walk across......at any time of year.

Wolfgang

Of course if TBone's scheme could be made to work, you could walk across
again, as all the water would be in Colorado, Utah, Arizona, etc. where
it
would obviously have more value than where it is now. And think of all
the
additional arable land that would become available, not just in the
former
desert areas, but in the newly exposed lake beds. (and just in case there
is
someone out there that needs this) 8)

Bob Weinberger

T-Bone would like the NAWAPA. It's not completely dead.
http://www.schillerinstitute.org/eco...s2.html#nawapa

Thus demonstrating once again that there is no idea so stupid that it cannot
garner widespread support.

The American west doesn't need MORE water. What it needs is a few tens of
millions LESS human parasites.

Wolfgang

If you actually knew how to read and carry on a civil discussion you
would know that the 'water grid' of which I am a proponent would
simply balance the abundant water we have. As I sit in Dallas this
evening Texas is a drenched mess. In other places there is drought and
receding water levels. There is always too much water someplace and
always not enough in others. Yet there is no more or less water
available to the planet now than there ever has been in history. Water
defines 'renewable resource'. You simply can't waste it. My basic
point is that we should have the basic plumbing of this great planet
figured out by now.

Bone

On Jul 30, 5:17 pm, George Cleveland
wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 15:03:48 -0500, "Wolfgang"
wrote:





"BJ Conner" wrote in message
roups.com...
On Jul 30, 11:41 am, "Bob Weinberger"
wrote:
"Wolfgang" wrote in message

...

Sorta makes a boy nostalgic for the good old days (say, circa 1969 or
thereabouts) when he could just walk across......at any time of year.

Wolfgang

Of course if TBone's scheme could be made to work, you could walk across
again, as all the water would be in Colorado, Utah, Arizona, etc. where
it
would obviously have more value than where it is now. And think of all
the
additional arable land that would become available, not just in the
former
desert areas, but in the newly exposed lake beds. (and just in case there
is
someone out there that needs this) 8)

Bob Weinberger

T-Bone would like the NAWAPA. It's not completely dead.
http://www.schillerinstitute.org/eco...s2.html#nawapa

Thus demonstrating once again that there is no idea so stupid that it cannot
garner widespread support.

The American west doesn't need MORE water. What it needs is a few tens of
millions LESS human parasites.

Wolfgang

Or at least tens of millions of humans who are willing to live in the
desert and accept that that is what it is. No green lawns. No green
golf courses (and thats what this is all about isn't it). No open
irrigation ditches. No ****ing "Dancing Waters" at the casino. Drink
recycled waste water (not a big Chamber of Commerce selling point, I
know). If you want to live a wet lifestyle, move somewhere where its
wet.

g.c.

Why George? Why not irrigate the west? Is this any less desirable than
clear cutting North Caroline to build Raleigh?

Bone

On Jul 26, 3:59 pm, "Bob Weinberger"
wrote:
"Wolfgang" wrote in message

...



Nothing at all wrong with the idea of siphoning water through a series of
reservoirs from the waterlogged east to the parched west. The science is
sound. The solution is a simply matter of engineering. All that really
needs to be done is the construction of the initial reservoir at about
12,000 feet.

However, there is a simpler, cheaper, and much more elegant solution.

Pueblo, being at a considerably greater elevation than, say, Milwaukee, a
pipeline could be constructed to carry water downhill from Pueblo to the
shore of Lake Michigan. The enormous pressure exerted by a 4220 foot head
(~4880 foot altitude at Pueblo - ~580 at Milwaukee) could be used to push
water back through a pipeline from Lake Michigan to Colorado. Thus, a
much smaller number of staged reservoirs would be needed to distribute the
water from Pueblo to the rest of the west, and there is the added
advantage of the 4000+ foot elevation gain, which would make the siphoning
that much easier and concomitantly cheaper.

Wolfgang
who supposes that some people just never will be able to grasp basic
physics.

When I read the above, I thought to myself, "sure as hell someone is going
to think he is actually serious". I was not wrong. However, I thought that
T-Bone would be the first to respond with a "See. Someone else agrees with
me."

Bob Weinberger

You seriously underestimate me Bob. It's pretty obvious that Wolfgang
was being a buffoon.

Bone

On Jul 26, 6:10 pm, "Calif Bill" wrote:
"Halfordian Golfer" wrote in message

ups.com...



On Jul 25, 7:46 pm, daytripper wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 23:50:48 -0000, Halfordian Golfer

wrote:

Check this out:

""What this project does is it uses pipes like this to go downstream
and collect it; work against gravity to bring it back up. And then
we'll treat it and flow it through our system back to the South
Platte," said Binney."

That's right...."work against gravity"...read it and weap boys.

From:http://www.9news.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=74260

I think a water grid is easily within grips. No drought, no flooding,
just good, clean water for all.

Your pal,

Halfordian Golfer
A cash flow runs through it

Oooooh! Magical Pipes, defying gravity!

BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZTTTTTTTT!

El Wrongo strikes again.

http://www.auroragov.org/stellent/gr...map/021665.pdf

See all those pumping stations, Tim?

/daytripper (ahahahahahahhaahaha!)

My point has always been that pumping was cost effective if other ways
couldn't be made to work. This just proves it. I still think it's
possible to used staged siphon but I acknowledge that's way out there.
So, each little pump station has it's own solar grid and water is
going, well, anywhere it needs to. No more flood, no more drought just
abundant, safe water for all.

Halfordian Golfer
A cash flow runs through it.

It is just not the cash cost, but how much water is available. The Ogallala
Aquifer is a falling level of water. Was originally recharged by the water
that seeped through buffalo wallows. The buffalo broke though the clay
layer allowing the water to flow. Very little recharging these days. So
pipelines from where the water is may be the only viable option. Or a
pipeline to allow the water to get to the aquifer you are pumping from.

This seems so, so obvious to me that I simply don't understand how
anyone could question it.

Bone

On Jul 27, 7:29 am, "Wolfgang" wrote:
"Bob Weinberger" wrote in message

news:wW7qi.9186$XL4.3133@trndny04...





"Wolfgang" wrote in message
...
Nothing at all wrong with the idea of siphoning water through a series of
reservoirs from the waterlogged east to the parched west. The science is
sound. The solution is a simply matter of engineering. All that really
needs to be done is the construction of the initial reservoir at about
12,000 feet.

However, there is a simpler, cheaper, and much more elegant solution.

Pueblo, being at a considerably greater elevation than, say, Milwaukee, a
pipeline could be constructed to carry water downhill from Pueblo to the
shore of Lake Michigan. The enormous pressure exerted by a 4220 foot
head (~4880 foot altitude at Pueblo - ~580 at Milwaukee) could be used to
push water back through a pipeline from Lake Michigan to Colorado. Thus,
a much smaller number of staged reservoirs would be needed to distribute
the water from Pueblo to the rest of the west, and there is the added
advantage of the 4000+ foot elevation gain, which would make the
siphoning that much easier and concomitantly cheaper.

Wolfgang
who supposes that some people just never will be able to grasp basic
physics.

When I read the above, I thought to myself, "sure as hell someone is going
to think he is actually serious". I was not wrong. However, I thought
that T-Bone would be the first to respond with a "See. Someone else agrees
with me."

At issue, I think, is not so much the question of seriousness as
impetuosity. Take, for example, that little matter from a few months ago of
idly tossing out the notion of farming Lake Erie for wind generated
electricity. Experience has taught me that I SHOULD allow such spur of the
moment thoughts to gestate for a while prior to setting them before the
general public. But I get excited, throw caution to the wind, and just let
fly without due consideration. I've had some time to think about that
particular idea in the ensuing weeks and, not surprisingly, have come to the
conclusion that some refinements are in order. If you recall, I suggested
that by spacing the individual windmills about 500 feet apart, we could fit
about a million of them out there. Well, it occurred to me that by
shortening the lengths of the vanes by a small amount, resulting in a
negligible loss in generating capacity, the distance between them could be
reduced to 250 feet while maintaining a sufficient safety margin. It takes
no great feat of imagination or arithmetic to come to the obvious and
correct conclusion that we could thus fit FOUR MILLION!! of them ****ers out
there!* HAH!

Wolfgang
*yes, yes, i know that a corridor, say a mile or so wide, would have to be
left across the length of the lake to facilitate shipping, and that similar
paths would need to be left vacant at each port of consequence. so, we
sacrifice (if my map reading skills are up to the task) something like
23,641 generators. this leaves us with a still not entirely insignificant
total of 3,976,359.


Since wind is a vital part of the respiration of the planet it's not
clear what the immediate affect of robbing the wind of its power would
be. It could be the worst ecological disaster we've ever created.

Bone

On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 22:30:21 -0000, Halfordian Golfer
wrote:

On Jul 30, 5:17 pm, George Cleveland
wrote:

Or at least tens of millions of humans who are willing to live in the
desert and accept that that is what it is. No green lawns. No green
golf courses (and thats what this is all about isn't it). No open
irrigation ditches. No ****ing "Dancing Waters" at the casino. Drink
recycled waste water (not a big Chamber of Commerce selling point, I
know). If you want to live a wet lifestyle, move somewhere where its
wet.

g.c.

Why George? Why not irrigate the west? Is this any less desirable than
clear cutting North Caroline to build Raleigh?

Bone

While we can all admit that was a HUGE mistake, what relevance does it have to
your "plumbing problem"?

/daytripper (and lets keep those jabs above the belt ;-)

Since wind is a vital part of the respiration of the planet it's not
clear what the immediate affect of robbing the wind of its power would
be. It could be the worst ecological disaster we've ever created.

Bone



ok...i know i swim only in the shallow water, but...uh...how does one
"rob the wind of its power" by using windmills or other wind-driven
mechanisms? i get the respiration concept...though i'm not sure it's
applicable in the manner you suggest. but, i'd like to read and learn
more about it. any cites? ...or more detailed explanation?

jeff

Wolfgang wrote:
"Cal Vanize" wrote in message
news
Wolfgang wrote:
"Cal Vanize" wrote in message
...
Wolfgang wrote:

The American west doesn't need MORE water. What it needs is a few tens
of millions LESS human parasites.



You sound suspiciously like an Austrian making a similar statement in
the thirties.
Interesting. Not surprising that an Austrian would know more about the
reality of the American west than most of the people who live
there......but interesting, nevertheless.

Wolfgang is a popular Austrian nickname.
No, it isn't.

Wolfgang
Actually it is.

Actually, no, it isn't.

And it is in Germany.

Nope.

So you agree with the extermination of millions of American "parasites"
(as you call them).

I do? Hm......maybe some day you could give us a short dissertation on how
you divine these astonishing revelations.

And you're not just a halfwit, you're a clueless halfwit.

You're the one that said "What it needs is a few tens of millions LESS
human parasites."

How you propose to take care of all these "tens of millions" of "human
parasites"?

Maybe what the world really needs is one less of you.

So praddle back to your cardboard box under your own little bridge.

"Cal Vanize" wrote in message
...
Wolfgang wrote:
"Cal Vanize" wrote in message
news
Wolfgang wrote:
"Cal Vanize" wrote in message
...
Wolfgang wrote:

The American west doesn't need MORE water. What it needs is a few
tens of millions LESS human parasites.



You sound suspiciously like an Austrian making a similar statement in
the thirties.
Interesting. Not surprising that an Austrian would know more about the
reality of the American west than most of the people who live
there......but interesting, nevertheless.

Wolfgang is a popular Austrian nickname.
No, it isn't.

Wolfgang
Actually it is.

Actually, no, it isn't.

And it is in Germany.

Nope.

So you agree with the extermination of millions of American "parasites"
(as you call them).

I do? Hm......maybe some day you could give us a short dissertation on
how you divine these astonishing revelations.

And you're not just a halfwit, you're a clueless halfwit.

Thus explaining why I asked you to explain how you come by these
illuminating observations. I'll go out on a limb here and suggest that I'm
not the only person here who would be intrigued and delighted by an
explanation.

You're the one that said "What it needs is a few tens of millions LESS
human parasites."

Yeah, I had already guessed that much.

How you propose to take care of all these "tens of millions" of "human
parasites"?

I don't propose to take care of them at all. As a matter of fact, I'm a
strong proponent of the principle that people should (generally) take
responsibility for their own well-being, at least insofar as possible in a
complex world. Obviously, socialism, to one degree or another is a
necessity in these latter days (hey, who REALLY thinks fire departments
should be abolished.....right?) but the colossal and spectacularly failed
experiment in socialism that is the American west should be recognized for
what it is, and abandoned while there is still something left worth saving.

Maybe what the world really needs is one less of you.

I suspect it isn't a matter of need, but it will doubtless do about as well
or as poorly in my inevitable absence as it did before my debut on the
stage, and as it has during my brief tenure. Meanwhile, my desultory
efforts in taxonomy may not do the world a world of good, but they surely
cannot do it any harm.

So praddle back to your cardboard box under your own little bridge.

Praddle?

Idiot.

Wolfgang