Kill File in Google Reader? and Message to Beancounter

On 2010-01-05 17:21:22 -0500, "Tom Littleton" said:


"David LaCourse" wrote in message
news:2010010508470016807-dplacourse@aolcom...
the only answer you have is
to turn away and ignore them?

no, I'm saying generation to generation poverty has been part of our economy
since this nation started. Nothing 'pathetic' about it, it's built into the
system. It's good that you do something to help. I try to do likewise.

It's not built into the system, you yo-yo. Every kid in my
neighborhood "made it", even the few the went to jail at 18 yo. Sure,
there must be someplace, probably in WV or Kentucky where poverty
continues generation to generation, but what I see, the people I see
and try to help, are habitual. Many of them have become accustomed to
their way of life. And, like David has noted, there is no male, no
father or grandfather, in their lives. Many of the woman, as I have
stated, have multiple children by multiple men. THAT is a decision.
That is a choise they have made. That is what makes them pathetic
(sad). That is only part of the problem. We have more men and women
(as a % of the over-all population) incarcerated in this country than
any other. Many of those at the pantry have someone behind bars.


Shame on you. I call them pathetic
meaning sad, not *your* usual meaning of the word contemptuous pity. There
are five food banks/pantries available to them once a month. They visit
all of them and get enough food for an entire month. That is sad. A five
year limit on welfare? There is no limit on how long these sad souls can
live in subsidized housing or visit the food pantries.

no. And, while you might backpedal now and parse your use of pathetic, you
are all too willing to guess about their politics/voting(as if you really
know) and pass judgement elsewhere.

I'm not parsing my use of pathetic. I have always used it when
describing the people that I have come in contact with, and its meaning
has always been sad, not contempuous pity like you always use. I may
pity some of these folks, but it is not contempuous. I have no contemp
for them, just pity and sadness.

We have literally lost three generations of peope because they rely on
government entitlements.

this is where you let politics get in the way of clear thinking.

What politics? That several generations of poor people have become
reliant on the U.S. Government for their existence? Sorry, but that's
not politics, Tom. That pure American history.

We've had
poverty, generation-to-generation poverty, and you apparently only started
noticing it in the past 20 years.

I started noticing it when I was a kid and my father brought home to me
argyle socks, *woolen* argyle socks, that his boss' children wore. I
started noticing poverty when it dawned on me that I had to get a paper
route if I wanted things. And if I really wanted things, like my *own*
argyle socks, I had to pick shade grown tobaccoo at age 14. I noticed
it when we turned on the hot water heater to take a bath. Don't talk
to me about poverty, Tom. But I was more fortunate than many kids in
my neighborhood. My father wasn't a drunk and worked hard, until dying
at age 67 behind the wheel of his tanker rig. He and my mom taught me
to fish, both spin and fly, and I was the only kid in the neighborhood
to go on a vacation every summer with his parents.

Hell, the same families that were poor in
VA in 1800 still are today. Sure, there are a few that break the cycle, but
the system is set up to make that a challenge.

Horse caca. Yeah, there is generation to generation poverty in the
coal country of WV, VA, and Appiliatia in general. And if those kids
were taught better in school that they too could become someone, if
they were taught that serving in the military is a great way to break
out of the same poverty routine they've seen all their lives, perhaps
they could. Challenge, smallenge. Who the hell has NOT been
challenged in life? All of life is a challenge and if you don't learn
that early in your life, you probably are doomed.

One of the greatest crocks o'
crap ever sold is the Horatio Alger ideal. By and large, our nation just
doesn't work that way.

Another horse caca. Tell that to Hector, Norman, Ralph, Richard,
Junior, et al. All kids I grew up with in poverty. We all made it.
Tell that to my two nephews who got bad conduct discharges from the
Army and Navy and have grown up to be successful tradesmen. Tell it to
Bill Gates.

Perhaps, in Obama, they felt they
saw someone who might effect a change in that. In my experiences, most of
the folks who I've encountered receiving welfare, food stamps, going to the
food bank, etc., don't like that situation, and work like the devil to
change it. Sometimes, they get discouraged, but by and large, it is not some
sort of lifestyle choice.

More caca, Tom. Periodically, maybe three or four times a year for at
least a month, we have to fill out some paperwork for each of our
clients. One of the questions is, "Do you work." All answer no. The
next question is "Are you capable of working?" Some say yes, most say
no. Yes, some break out of the system and become self reliant, but as
a whole, most do not (not including elderly in that). That's why we
see them week, month, year after year.

And, it is going to get worse, Tom. Count on it. Unemployment is
going to rise because nothing is being done to check it. You do not
raise taxes in hard times. You lower them. The best Dem in my life,
JFK, was aware of that little economic tid bit. Perhaps that is why I
voted for the man.



Dave

On 2010-01-05 21:34:54 -0500, Giles said:

On Jan 5, 4:39*am, "Tom Littleton" wrote:
"David LaCourse" wrote in message

news:2010010422410250878-dplacourse@aolcom...

hmmm.....we have a 5 year limit on welfare, since the '90s
and they're 3rd generation??

Depends on what kind of welfare. Remember, you're talking to someone
with a lifetime of first hand experience.

Yes, along with Frank Reid and every retired military person out there.

Davey

On 2010-01-05 18:51:02 -0500, "Tom Littleton" said:


"David LaCourse" wrote in message
news:201001041720588930-dplacourse@aolcom...
They truly need help, but many have made
bad decisions and continue to make more bad decisions, and ride the system
for all it's worth. They are happy with their lives, afaik, and wouldn't
change if it meant working for what they get.


and, if you wonder, THIS is the absolute piece of stupidity that drew my
ire. You dare to call yourself a Christian?? Judge not, lest......etc, etc.

Get off your high horse, Rev. Tom. They *have* made bad decisions, and
*continue* to make bad decisions. And they seem happy. I talk at
length with many of them and they seem like happy people. But the U.S.
Government has supported them for years and years. It has become a way
of life. I am not, nor do I mean, to judge anyone of these people.
Their choices in life were bad. If that is judging them, then I am
guilty. But, your words come right back at you, Tom. You're judging
me. No mistaking that!

On Jan 5, 4:21*pm, "Tom Littleton" wrote:
"David LaCourse" wrote in message

news:2010010508470016807-dplacourse@aolcom...
the only answer you have is

to turn away and ignore them?

no, I'm saying generation to generation poverty has been part of our economy
since this nation started. Nothing 'pathetic' about it, it's built into the
system. It's good that you do something to help. I try to do likewise.

*Shame on you. *I call them pathetic

meaning sad, not *your* usual meaning of the word contemptuous pity. There
are five food banks/pantries available to them once a month. *They visit
all of them and get enough food for an entire month. *That is sad. *A five
year limit on welfare? *There is no limit on how long these sad souls can
live in subsidized housing or visit the food pantries.

no. And, while you might backpedal now and parse your use of pathetic, you
are all too willing to guess about their politics/voting(as if you really
know) and pass judgement elsewhere.

We have literally lost three generations of peope because they rely on
government entitlements.

this is where you let politics get in the way of clear thinking. We've had
poverty, generation-to-generation poverty, and you apparently only started
noticing it in the past 20 years. Hell, the same families that were poor in
VA in 1800 still are today. Sure, there are a few that break the cycle, but
the system is set up to make that a challenge.

Well........DUH..........LIFE is a challenge.

One of the greatest crocks o'
crap ever sold is the Horatio Alger ideal.

Almost all those achievers I know came from loooowwwww beginnings.
They did so by working hard and recognizing what is important and what
is not.

By and large, our nation just
doesn't work that way. Perhaps, in Obama, they felt they
saw someone who might effect a change in that. In my experiences, most of
the folks who I've encountered receiving welfare, food stamps, going to the
food bank, etc., don't like that situation, and work like the devil to
change it.

Then they chose the wrong devil. Working hard doesn't help. You must
work smart.
Working hard to make a great mud pie gives you a..........mud pie.


Sometimes, they get discouraged, but by and large, it is not some
sort of lifestyle choice.

With few exceptions (physical impairment, etc.) is IS a choice.

cheers

oz, who makes choices

On Jan 5, 5:51*pm, "Tom Littleton" wrote:
"David LaCourse" wrote in message

news:201001041720588930-dplacourse@aolcom...
*They truly need help, but many have made

bad decisions and continue to make more bad decisions, and ride the system
for all it's worth. They are happy with their lives, afaik, and wouldn't
change if it meant working for what they get.

and, if you wonder, THIS is the absolute piece of stupidity that drew my
ire. You dare to call yourself a Christian?? Judge not, lest......etc, etc.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Tom

Observations are not judgments.

cheers

oz

On Jan 5, 10:01*pm, David LaCourse wrote:
On 2010-01-05 21:34:54 -0500, Giles said:

On Jan 5, 4:39*am, "Tom Littleton" wrote:
"David LaCourse" wrote in message

news:2010010422410250878-dplacourse@aolcom...

hmmm.....we have a 5 year limit on welfare, since the '90s
and they're 3rd generation??

Depends on what kind of welfare. *Remember, you're talking to someone
with a lifetime of first hand experience.

Yes, along with Frank Reid and every retired military person out there.


Could you expand, somewhat, on your intended meaning, please?

cheers

oz

"MajorOz" wrote in message
...
On Jan 5, 5:51 pm, "Tom Littleton" wrote:
"David LaCourse" wrote in message

news:201001041720588930-dplacourse@aolcom...
They truly need help, but many have made

bad decisions and continue to make more bad decisions, and ride the
system
for all it's worth. They are happy with their lives, afaik, and wouldn't
change if it meant working for what they get.

and, if you wonder, THIS is the absolute piece of stupidity that drew my
ire. You dare to call yourself a Christian?? Judge not, lest......etc,
etc.
Tom

Observations are not judgments.

cheers

oz

Is the above statement an absolute? IYMHO, I mean.

Op

On 2010-01-05 23:53:06 -0500, MajorOz said:

On Jan 5, 10:01*pm, David LaCourse wrote:
On 2010-01-05 21:34:54 -0500, Giles said:

On Jan 5, 4:39*am, "Tom Littleton" wrote:
"David LaCourse" wrote in message

news:2010010422410250878-dplacourse@aolcom...

hmmm.....we have a 5 year limit on welfare, since the '90s
and they're 3rd generation??

Depends on what kind of welfare. *Remember, you're talking to someone
with a lifetime of first hand experience.

Yes, along with Frank Reid and every retired military person out there.


Could you expand, somewhat, on your intended meaning, please?


Wolfgang, aka Giles, has called me a welfare queen for several years.
He refers to my military retirement as welfare.

And, yes, he is bitter about it.

Frank Reid is also retired from the military. What is good for me must
also apply to my friend Frank.

Dave

On 2010-01-05 22:28:41 -0500, jeff said:

David LaCourse wrote:
On 2010-01-05 10:01:47 -0500, jeff said:

David LaCourse wrote:

Jo and I move to Georgia on Thursday. We both plan to do the same
thing down there.


i'll be interested in your comparison of northern, taxachusetts welfare
programs and clientele with those in the north jawja republican
mountains...

jeff

Republican mountains? News to me. But, I will try and campare the
difference if/when we can find a place to volunteer. We are about 30
miles from *any place*. You, Rachel, and the pup must visit if for no
other reason that to watch the sunset.

Dave



the mountains of nc, tenn, and jawja are notoriously republican. tough
for a liberal democrat to breathe the political air up there. g

the pup is still a bit rambunctious for polite company, but i hope we
can visit with y'all at your new place one of these days. it's an easy
drive from snowbird...

jeff

She can not be more rambunctious than Jenny. d;o)

Snowbird and some of those streams we fished years ago are on my agenda
for this coming spring.

Dave

David LaCourse wrote:
On 2010-01-05 22:28:41 -0500, jeff said:

David LaCourse wrote:
On 2010-01-05 10:01:47 -0500, jeff said:

David LaCourse wrote:

Jo and I move to Georgia on Thursday. We both plan to do the same
thing down there.


i'll be interested in your comparison of northern, taxachusetts
welfare programs and clientele with those in the north jawja
republican mountains...

jeff

Republican mountains? News to me. But, I will try and campare the
difference if/when we can find a place to volunteer. We are about 30
miles from *any place*. You, Rachel, and the pup must visit if for
no other reason that to watch the sunset.

Dave



the mountains of nc, tenn, and jawja are notoriously republican. tough
for a liberal democrat to breathe the political air up there. g

the pup is still a bit rambunctious for polite company, but i hope we
can visit with y'all at your new place one of these days. it's an easy
drive from snowbird...

jeff

She can not be more rambunctious than Jenny. d;o)

Snowbird and some of those streams we fished years ago are on my agenda
for this coming spring.

Dave



this one's a bit psychotic...but fun and loving.

keep me posted on your visit to the southern barracks... it's freezing
cold down here now, but spring sounds nice.

jeff

jeff