Keeper bass

Why don't you let the people that know what they're talking about run the
thread?

Warren
--
http://www.warrenwolk.com/
http://www.tri-statebassmasters.com
2004 NJ B.A.S.S. Federation State Champions



"Rodney" . wrote in message
...
alwaysfishking wrote:
Ok i'm sticking with the kill all the stinking pickerel in the samll
lake
here. Let me see if that has any effect


No doubt that will help (the bass) in a small pond

What Warren fails to see,, in a limited amount of water, just so much
biological can grow, or even be maintained, when the top predator is
over populated, there is nothing else that can help the biology of the
lake, but the removal of a percentage of them, you can't just add more
food fish (bream or shad), you run out of O2, and food for them

The Balance that Warren is thinking about,, is forgetting one thing,
each year the number of bass increase, if they didn't, perhaps you could
increase their food supply some, and have a balance. but then you have
bigger bass needing even more food,, you just have to remove some,,
they populate faster than they die from natural causes.

The ponds down here can sustain 200 lbs of bass per acre, that can be
200, 1 pounders, or 20, 10 ponders, but they always contain all sizes,
but the total never exceeds 200 lbs because 1 acre of water can only
supply the food for 200 lbs of bass, and that is a perfectly mixed
species lake.

They tell us to remove every fish caught under two lbs, of course this
is on a lake where it is over 5 years since it has been stocked

Ponds up north, I'm sure can't keep 200 ponds supported


--
Rodney Long,
Inventor of the Long Shot "WIGGLE" rig, SpecTastic Thread
Boomerang Fishing Pro. ,Stand Out Hooks ,Stand Out Lures,
Mojo's Rock Hopper & Rig Saver weights, Decoy Activator
and the EZKnot http://www.ezknot.com

Why don't you let the people that know what they're talking about run the
thread?

Warren
--
http://www.warrenwolk.com/
http://www.tri-statebassmasters.com
2004 NJ B.A.S.S. Federation State Champions



"Rodney" . wrote in message
...
alwaysfishking wrote:
Ok i'm sticking with the kill all the stinking pickerel in the samll
lake
here. Let me see if that has any effect


No doubt that will help (the bass) in a small pond

What Warren fails to see,, in a limited amount of water, just so much
biological can grow, or even be maintained, when the top predator is
over populated, there is nothing else that can help the biology of the
lake, but the removal of a percentage of them, you can't just add more
food fish (bream or shad), you run out of O2, and food for them

The Balance that Warren is thinking about,, is forgetting one thing,
each year the number of bass increase, if they didn't, perhaps you could
increase their food supply some, and have a balance. but then you have
bigger bass needing even more food,, you just have to remove some,,
they populate faster than they die from natural causes.

The ponds down here can sustain 200 lbs of bass per acre, that can be
200, 1 pounders, or 20, 10 ponders, but they always contain all sizes,
but the total never exceeds 200 lbs because 1 acre of water can only
supply the food for 200 lbs of bass, and that is a perfectly mixed
species lake.

They tell us to remove every fish caught under two lbs, of course this
is on a lake where it is over 5 years since it has been stocked

Ponds up north, I'm sure can't keep 200 ponds supported


--
Rodney Long,
Inventor of the Long Shot "WIGGLE" rig, SpecTastic Thread
Boomerang Fishing Pro. ,Stand Out Hooks ,Stand Out Lures,
Mojo's Rock Hopper & Rig Saver weights, Decoy Activator
and the EZKnot http://www.ezknot.com

go-bassn wrote:

Why don't you let the people that know what they're talking about run the
thread?

Gee Warren, about a mouth or two ago,, you said "you knew" what you were
talking about, when I'm the one who "first" told everyone to remove
dinks, (from small impoundment's) and you called me a fool.

I told the group an algae bloom could deplete O2, and cause a shad kill
you called me a fool again, that algae just produce O2, you failed to
recognize they use more O2 than produce when the sun is blocked by
clouds, and do indeed cause fish kills (that's the reason we have
aerators on small ponds, especially when we have them stocked with fish
to the O2, use limit).

Everyone here read those threads, now all of a sudden, your finally are
convinced that removal of dinks is necessary, but I still don't know
anything.

All of those threads is still on the board for anyone to review

For the life of me I can't figure you out.

WEll just keep slamming me, your only hurting yourself, every time you
do it.

I would rather we be friends, after all, I am in a position where I
could even possibly help you. This bickering is childish.

You don't know everything about fishing, and I don't know everything
about fishing, but when I post something as fact, you can take it to the
bank, I can back it up, or I would not post it. I'm not going to mislead
anyone.

Now if someone can prove me wrong,, I will admit it,, that I screwed up,
it happens to most people, their mind just can't recall what they
thought it could, what's the big deal, nothing wrong, with being wrong

Sometimes I might post something that I qualify as "I remember, I think
I read somewhere, or I believe" these post are looking for proof, either
right, or wrong. I would rather have the true facts than just "think"
I'm right.

Well the ball's in your court, you can be a real man,, or just keep
playing these childish games
--
Rodney Long,
Inventor of the Long Shot "WIGGLE" rig, SpecTastic Thread
Boomerang Fishing Pro. ,Stand Out Hooks ,Stand Out Lures,
Mojo's Rock Hopper & Rig Saver weights, Decoy Activator
and the EZKnot http://www.ezknot.com

go-bassn wrote:

Why don't you let the people that know what they're talking about run the
thread?

Gee Warren, about a mouth or two ago,, you said "you knew" what you were
talking about, when I'm the one who "first" told everyone to remove
dinks, (from small impoundment's) and you called me a fool.

I told the group an algae bloom could deplete O2, and cause a shad kill
you called me a fool again, that algae just produce O2, you failed to
recognize they use more O2 than produce when the sun is blocked by
clouds, and do indeed cause fish kills (that's the reason we have
aerators on small ponds, especially when we have them stocked with fish
to the O2, use limit).

Everyone here read those threads, now all of a sudden, your finally are
convinced that removal of dinks is necessary, but I still don't know
anything.

All of those threads is still on the board for anyone to review

For the life of me I can't figure you out.

WEll just keep slamming me, your only hurting yourself, every time you
do it.

I would rather we be friends, after all, I am in a position where I
could even possibly help you. This bickering is childish.

You don't know everything about fishing, and I don't know everything
about fishing, but when I post something as fact, you can take it to the
bank, I can back it up, or I would not post it. I'm not going to mislead
anyone.

Now if someone can prove me wrong,, I will admit it,, that I screwed up,
it happens to most people, their mind just can't recall what they
thought it could, what's the big deal, nothing wrong, with being wrong

Sometimes I might post something that I qualify as "I remember, I think
I read somewhere, or I believe" these post are looking for proof, either
right, or wrong. I would rather have the true facts than just "think"
I'm right.

Well the ball's in your court, you can be a real man,, or just keep
playing these childish games
--
Rodney Long,
Inventor of the Long Shot "WIGGLE" rig, SpecTastic Thread
Boomerang Fishing Pro. ,Stand Out Hooks ,Stand Out Lures,
Mojo's Rock Hopper & Rig Saver weights, Decoy Activator
and the EZKnot http://www.ezknot.com

I'll make this easy on ya old fella, meet Al...

P-L-O-N-K

Warren
--
http://www.warrenwolk.com/
http://www.tri-statebassmasters.com
2004 NJ B.A.S.S. Federation State Champions



"Rodney" . wrote in message
...
go-bassn wrote:

Why don't you let the people that know what they're talking about run
the
thread?

Gee Warren, about a mouth or two ago,, you said "you knew" what you were
talking about, when I'm the one who "first" told everyone to remove
dinks, (from small impoundment's) and you called me a fool.

I told the group an algae bloom could deplete O2, and cause a shad kill
you called me a fool again, that algae just produce O2, you failed to
recognize they use more O2 than produce when the sun is blocked by
clouds, and do indeed cause fish kills (that's the reason we have
aerators on small ponds, especially when we have them stocked with fish
to the O2, use limit).

Everyone here read those threads, now all of a sudden, your finally are
convinced that removal of dinks is necessary, but I still don't know
anything.

All of those threads is still on the board for anyone to review

For the life of me I can't figure you out.

WEll just keep slamming me, your only hurting yourself, every time you
do it.

I would rather we be friends, after all, I am in a position where I
could even possibly help you. This bickering is childish.

You don't know everything about fishing, and I don't know everything
about fishing, but when I post something as fact, you can take it to the
bank, I can back it up, or I would not post it. I'm not going to mislead
anyone.

Now if someone can prove me wrong,, I will admit it,, that I screwed up,
it happens to most people, their mind just can't recall what they
thought it could, what's the big deal, nothing wrong, with being wrong

Sometimes I might post something that I qualify as "I remember, I think
I read somewhere, or I believe" these post are looking for proof, either
right, or wrong. I would rather have the true facts than just "think"
I'm right.

Well the ball's in your court, you can be a real man,, or just keep
playing these childish games
--
Rodney Long,
Inventor of the Long Shot "WIGGLE" rig, SpecTastic Thread
Boomerang Fishing Pro. ,Stand Out Hooks ,Stand Out Lures,
Mojo's Rock Hopper & Rig Saver weights, Decoy Activator
and the EZKnot http://www.ezknot.com

I'll make this easy on ya old fella, meet Al...

P-L-O-N-K

Warren
--
http://www.warrenwolk.com/
http://www.tri-statebassmasters.com
2004 NJ B.A.S.S. Federation State Champions



"Rodney" . wrote in message
...
go-bassn wrote:

Why don't you let the people that know what they're talking about run
the
thread?

Gee Warren, about a mouth or two ago,, you said "you knew" what you were
talking about, when I'm the one who "first" told everyone to remove
dinks, (from small impoundment's) and you called me a fool.

I told the group an algae bloom could deplete O2, and cause a shad kill
you called me a fool again, that algae just produce O2, you failed to
recognize they use more O2 than produce when the sun is blocked by
clouds, and do indeed cause fish kills (that's the reason we have
aerators on small ponds, especially when we have them stocked with fish
to the O2, use limit).

Everyone here read those threads, now all of a sudden, your finally are
convinced that removal of dinks is necessary, but I still don't know
anything.

All of those threads is still on the board for anyone to review

For the life of me I can't figure you out.

WEll just keep slamming me, your only hurting yourself, every time you
do it.

I would rather we be friends, after all, I am in a position where I
could even possibly help you. This bickering is childish.

You don't know everything about fishing, and I don't know everything
about fishing, but when I post something as fact, you can take it to the
bank, I can back it up, or I would not post it. I'm not going to mislead
anyone.

Now if someone can prove me wrong,, I will admit it,, that I screwed up,
it happens to most people, their mind just can't recall what they
thought it could, what's the big deal, nothing wrong, with being wrong

Sometimes I might post something that I qualify as "I remember, I think
I read somewhere, or I believe" these post are looking for proof, either
right, or wrong. I would rather have the true facts than just "think"
I'm right.

Well the ball's in your court, you can be a real man,, or just keep
playing these childish games
--
Rodney Long,
Inventor of the Long Shot "WIGGLE" rig, SpecTastic Thread
Boomerang Fishing Pro. ,Stand Out Hooks ,Stand Out Lures,
Mojo's Rock Hopper & Rig Saver weights, Decoy Activator
and the EZKnot http://www.ezknot.com

Must be married. See my post on getting hitched :-)

Cast far
Bob


"alwaysfishking" wrote in message
...
detailed logs next year. like baits and time spent. One thing I won't
track
is money spent :-)

On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 14:57:38 -0400, "go-bassn"
wrote:

1/35 is not good, I'd be fishing some other lake.

That's easier to say if you live in Michigan. However, the
problem Andrew has is that he's fishing in one really, really tough
state. In fact, east of the Missiissippi...there is probably no state
(with the possible exception of Ohio and Rhode Island) worse to fish
larger bodies of water in than Indiana.

Thankfully, we do have good fishing in our farm ponds, strip
pits, gravel pits, washouts, creeks and in some of our many rivers...

My keeper to non-keeper ratio is always dependent upon where I'm
fishing and I've learned to adjust my expectations depending upon the
water (and conditions) that I'm fishing.

If I'm fishing lake Monroe (Indiana's largest lake) right
now...I know that 3 nice keepers (approx. 10 pounds) will likely walk
away with a major tournament being held there this time of year. And
it very well could be 2 nice keepers...

I remember fishing a Federation Classic back in the late 80s on
Patoka (Indiana's 2nd biggest lake and probably our best big body of
water right now...unless you count the Ohio River) and catching well
over a hundred non-keeper bass each day...with not 1 keeper! 3
keepers (not huge ones either) won it and the majority of guys blanked
both days! I remember going in that tournament with an expectation of
probably around 100 keepers a day thinking that if I caught that many
keepers...surely 1 of those hundred bass each day would be a keeper
AND thinking that of 200 hundred bass...I had a decent chance of
catching a 6-7 pounder that would put me over the top...

Now compare that to the small lake I live on (15 acre subdivision
lake built about 10 years ago): I take my 21 month old boy fishing on
it about every day and after catching hundreds of bass on her this
year...I could count the number of non-keeper bass my son and I have
caught this year on one hand!

--
Dwayne E. Cooper, Atty at Law
Indianapolis, IN
Email:
Web Page: http://www.cooperlegalservices.com
Personal Fishing Web Page: http://www.hoosierwebsites.com/OnTheWater
Favorite Fishing Web Page: http://www.hoosiertradingpost.com/FishingTackle
1st Annual ROFB Classic Winner

Interesting Warren, that seems to be the case for the lake I have been
fishing recently. Little to no harvest and yet seems to sustain a good
amount of quality fish. (4-6 pounders), another lake here which is rather
small does not. Despite the fact that there is little to no harvest, the
fish seem to top out at 2.5-3 lbs. Pickerel on the other hand have been
taken out at 6 lbs with the average in the 2 pound range. There are
litterally no crappie left (last one I caught was almost two years ago). I
think this lake needs some pickerel removal IMO, What do you think?


"go-bassn" wrote in message
...
Thanks as always Shawn, it's great to have a real biologist here in rofb.
My degree's in aquaculture, so I've got a pretty decent history in your
field. I still have nightmares about going into that Organic Chemistry
III
final lol.

Hear me out on this...

Shawn, Ronnie, all - Obviously if you remove some predators the remaining
prey will be disbursed more generously among the remaining predators. I'm
in no way denying it.

But you guys are looking at the immediate problem facing, well, you as
bass
fishermen. I'm looking at it on a broader plane. I'm saying that the
root
of the problem isn't related directly to the bass. I'm saying that,
viewing
the whole food chain, that the bass in these lakes are being deprived as
the
result of an insufficient supply of forage. Basically that the population
of baitfish is the problem, not the population of bass.

Instead of saying "We have too many bass in this lake...", we need to be
saying "What can we do to increase the forage base in this lake?"

I've seen lakes just bubbling with large, healthy bass of both (popular)
species. There is little-to-no harvest, selective or not, on these
waters.
The common denominator these waters have is that they are just loaded with
baitfish. In your neck of the woods there's lots of those lakes Shawn.
Champlain, George, Erie, Ontario, etc. Just loaded with big, healthy
bass.
Bass that feast at will. These are natural, ancient, well-balanced
ecostystems.

Don't decrease the bass, increase the bait.

Warren
--
http://www.warrenwolk.com/
http://www.tri-statebassmasters.com
2004 NJ B.A.S.S. Federation State Champions



"Shawn" wrote in message
...
Stunted fish are a DIRECT result of an over-populated water body and
removing fish IS the fix. Warren - think about what you wrote.
"Stunted
fish are stunted because they don't have enough to eat and removing
small
bass is nothing more than a temporary fix." If you have a limited
amount
of
food to be distributed amongst say 100 bass, each of those bass will
only
get a certain amount of food - and that amount may not be enough to
grow.
Maybe it's just enough for "maintenance feeding" - just enough to stay
alive, in other words, without the extra protien and nutrition needed to
metabolize and convert to somatic (body) growth (and increase in length
and
weight). Now, if you take away 50 bass of those bass and give them the
same
amount of food, each bass gets a larger share and will be able to grow
ultimately larger.

You're partly right in that removing just the small fish is not enough.
With a stunted population, a certain portion of that population NEEDS to
be
removed to allow the food resources to be better distribution to the
remaining population - and the removal should include both large fish
and
small fish. Large fish eat far more food than small fish do, so the
removal
needs to include "some" of the large fish as well to return the water
body
to a more balanced situation.

Most biologists you talk to nowadays will talk about "selective harvest"
and
a better fisheries management tool over strictly catch-and-release, in
most
situations. There are always exceptions - in slow growing, long-lived
species for instance, like muskie or lake trout. But for most basic
warmwater fisheries, harvesting fish is an integral part of fisheries
management. In 2000, I was sent by my Department to take part in the
Black
Bass Symposium in St. Louis, Missouri that the American Fisheries
Society
and B.A.S.S. put on. It was a 4-day event comprised of bass
researchers,
biologists, and managers, giving presentations and papers on their
research
and management activities from around the US and Canada. A full text
book
has since been published on bass biology and management practices that
came
from this symposium. During the symposium I attended multiple
presentations by bass researchers that basically said in some areas of
North
America, the "catch-and-release" philosophy was almost having the
opposite
effect as people were thinking, in that decreased harvest was resulting
in
more bass, but smaller in overall size, bordering on "stunting" in some
populations because of limited food resource availability.

I'll leave it at that. I won't bore people further with bass biology
and
management lessons ......

Shawn
n


"go-bassn" wrote in message
...
I've said it before Ronnie, the overpopulation of small bass on any
lake
is
99% of the time based on an inbalance somewhere in the water's
ecosystem.
The problem of stunted fish generally means that those fish don't have
enough to eat. Removing small bass is nothing more than a temporary
fix;
It had nothing to do with the cause of the problem & it has no bearing
on
solving it.

Balanced ecosystems have a way of mainting healthy populations at all
levels, that's my belief at least.

Warren
--
http://www.warrenwolk.com/
http://www.tri-statebassmasters.com
2004 NJ B.A.S.S. Federation State Champions



"RGarri7470" wrote in message
...
I say turn em all loose.


on some lakes that adds to the problem of overpopulation of small
bass.
Ronnie

http://fishing.about.com

I live and fish in an unusual environment. here on Kauai bass fishing is
limited to few reservoirs that are open to the public. Several years back
I discovered a small hidden reservoir that had not been fished in over ten
years. I began packing in there a couple times a week. it was really cool
to be able to flip a lure out and catch a LM on every other cast. Most were
about 1 pound with a rare 2 pounder every now and then. Any day would
produce 8 to ten bass in an hour.
Bait fish were rarely seen. I would every now and then see a small tilapia
or bluegill but not often. I believe they were just eaten as fast as they
were spawned.

I began taking a few bass for the frying pan every trip in. I took out 60
bass around a pound each over a 6 month period. I still was able to get
plenty of action even though this water was little over 100 feet wide by 600
feet long and 8 feet deep. It was not long before we started catching some
larger fish. By the second year of culling the small fish we were catching
3 pounders on a regular basis. Action definitely slowed as we now were only
catching 2 to 3 bass per hour but nearly all were larger. Small bait fish
are now seen frequently so I can only think that it is because of the fewer
number of larger fish preying on them. That I feel is also one reason of a
lower catch, the remaining bass are not as hungry.

I think some culling of smaller fish where they are over abundant is proper
and healthy for good fishing.
No science, just personal observation of one case.

Ken


"go-bassn" wrote in message
...
I've said it before Ronnie, the overpopulation of small bass on any lake
is
99% of the time based on an inbalance somewhere in the water's ecosystem.
The problem of stunted fish generally means that those fish don't have
enough to eat. Removing small bass is nothing more than a temporary fix;
It had nothing to do with the cause of the problem & it has no bearing on
solving it.

Balanced ecosystems have a way of mainting healthy populations at all
levels, that's my belief at least.

Warren
--
http://www.warrenwolk.com/
http://www.tri-statebassmasters.com
2004 NJ B.A.S.S. Federation State Champions



"RGarri7470" wrote in message
...
I say turn em all loose.


on some lakes that adds to the problem of overpopulation of small bass.
Ronnie

http://fishing.about.com