Fishing for stocked fish.

Considerations on angling for stock fish.

I have a numbre of objections to angling for stocked rainbow trout.
These are based entirely on the facts known to me, and are not a
result of "snobbery" or any other such silly considerations, as some
people seem to assume.

1. The use of such fish is a massive drain on the environment.

2. There is no sensible comparison whatsoever between such fish and
any wild fish.

3. Although such fish may appear outwardly similar to wild fish,
after a period in suitable conditions, they do not behave like wild
fish. In many cases being almost tame, and can be caught easily using
various tricks, or completely outlandish concoctions such as power
bait, to which they have been accustomed artificailly. They may also
be easily caught using crushed trout pellets. Many of the flies used
to catch such fish have no counterparts in nature, and are taken by
the fish mainly as a result of their extreme conditioning during
rearing to react to food items in a particular manner. They have been
been conditioned to do so, and rarely possess even a fraction of the
wariness of wild fish. Especialy when in shoals, which they often
maintain until they are caught or die, they are extremely competitive.

4. In the majority of cases, these fish are badly contaminated with
accumulated poisons and toxins. This is also a result of being fed on
processed fishmeal, which concentrates various toxins, mainly in the
fatty cells of such fish, and also the chenical and other complex drug
residues used in their production.

5. I find the production of such animals purely for the purpose of
playing with them distasteful. They are produced at great cost,
damage, and danger to the environment, purely for the personal
gratification of anglers who wish to fish for them. This is not at all
the same thing as directly farming a food source.

6 As a result of the concentration on such practices, rivers and other
natural environments are being more and more negelected, and even
considered "inferior", because nothing even remotely resembling the
number and amount of fish can be caught there, and anglers
expectations have as a result of this, been raised far beyond what is
normal, or even remotely sensible in this regard. massive amounts of
money and resources are being wasted in order to provide personal and
"convenient" gratification to anglers, which would be far better spent
on improving the environment, and not in activel destroying it.

7. Also as a result of conditioning, many of these fish will only
feed at certain times, corresponding to the feeding times in the
hatcheries and feeding stews in which they were reared. Such aberrant
behaviour is often referred to as "the evening rise". In some places
where the fish have time to become acclimatised, ( although they never
entirely lose their conditioning), this may even be the case, but it
is mainly the result of conditioning to feed at a certain time.

There are a number of other reasons as well, but those are the main
ones.

TL
MC

One other point here, which is mainly an ethical one, and as such
dependent on one´s personal point of view. Fishing for such fish on a
catch and release basis is the ultimate mockery of the creature. It
reduces the creature to a complete plaything, which is artificially
produced under awful unnatural conditions, and then lives and dies
purely to provide a few moments of struggling for its life, resulting
in the personal gratification of an "angler". I find this abhorrent in
the extreme.

Many fisheries now are offering this, and many many anglers are
canvassing for it as well. Such people have no soul, and no conception
of what angling is.

If anybody cares to disagree with any of this, please feel free. If
anybody has any positive arguments in favour of such, please feel free
to voice them.

Just do me one favour, and don´t keep telling me you "have no choice",
or it is "convenient".

TL
MC

You may of course, like many "anglers", simply stick your head in the
sand, ( or as in the case of Kenny Boy, perpetual performing ****er of
this parish, up your arse), it is however certain that the known
problems, and possibly quite a few unknown ones will catch up with you
before long, and will also be visited upon your children. You are
actively aiding and abetting environmental destruction on a large
scale, for no other reason than convenient personal gratification.

Oh and Kenny Boy, before you start your usual nonsense, since you are
far too ignorant and stupid to refute or even discuss any of this
sensibly, I would suggest you go and jerk off somewhere else.

TL
MC

On 16-Sep-2007, Mike wrote:

ne other point here, which is mainly an ethical one, and as such
dependent on one´s personal point of view. Fishing for such fish on a
catch and release basis is the ultimate mockery of the creature. It
reduces the creature to a complete plaything, which is artificially
produced under awful unnatural conditions, and then lives and dies
purely to provide a few moments of struggling for its life, resulting
in the personal gratification of an "angler". I find this abhorrent in
the extreme.

Many fisheries now are offering this, and many many anglers are
canvassing for it as well. Such people have no soul, and no conception
of what angling is.

If anybody cares to disagree with any of this, please feel free. If
anybody has any positive arguments in favour of such, please feel free
to voice them.

Just do me one favour, and don´t keep telling me you "have no choice",
or it is "convenient".

TL
MC

You make a very good point here.
However the way tye world is going wthe population explosion, global
warming and the everyday degradation of the environment
It seems like this is the way the world is headed for anglers.
Whose numbers are also growing.
Ido not see wild fish are in the distanbnt future for this planet.

I have always wondered - and have never been there - on an overpopulated
island - like Japan
What kind of frsheater fish do they fish for?
Re there any wild bnative species left?

Fred

On 16-Sep-2007, Mike wrote:


You may of course, like many "anglers", simply stick your head in the
sand, ( or as in the case of Kenny Boy, perpetual performing ****er of
this parish, up your arse), it is however certain that the known
problems, and possibly quite a few unknown ones will catch up with you
before long, and will also be visited upon your children. You are
actively aiding and abetting environmental destruction on a large
scale, for no other reason than convenient personal gratification.


Oh and Kenny Boy, before you start your usual nonsense, since you are
far too ignorant and stupid to refute or even discuss any of this
sensibly, I would suggest you go and jerk off somewhere else.

TL
MC

Again - in the beginning of this post you made a good point
Why did you have to add this lunatic crap at the end?

Fred

On 16 Sep, 19:09, wrote:
On 16-Sep-2007, Mike wrote:

You may of course, like many "anglers", simply stick your head in the
sand, ( or as in the case of Kenny Boy, perpetual performing ****er of
this parish, up your arse), it is however certain that the known
problems, and possibly quite a few unknown ones will catch up with you
before long, and will also be visited upon your children. You are
actively aiding and abetting environmental destruction on a large
scale, for no other reason than convenient personal gratification.
Oh and Kenny Boy, before you start your usual nonsense, since you are
far too ignorant and stupid to refute or even discuss any of this
sensibly, I would suggest you go and jerk off somewhere else.

TL
MC

Again - in the beginning of this post you made a good point
Why did you have to add this lunatic crap at the end?

Fred

Well Fred, I don´t know anything much about Japan, except what I can
read on the web, and I have not even read much of that. I try to
address the problems in my own neighbourhood, although this can only
be in a relatively small way. Acquiring specific information on some
of these things is also becoming increasingly difficult, as a number
of the extremely large industrial concerns, which operate globally,
actively conceal all sorts of things, because they don´t want people
to know the extent of their control, and the massive damage they are
causing for profit.

Many anglers are simply unaware of the facts, and there are also a
number who refuse to believe them, as well as a few who know them, and
continue anyway, because they put their own doubtful "enjoyment" above
any other considerations.

Which brings us back to the "lunatic crap" you mention. Fortenberry
is a problem. Not only because he is a pschopathic arsehole, who gets
his kicks by damaging others, but because his behaviour also
effectively suppresses information and common sense. Quite apart form
the fact that his behaviour generally prevents the free interchange of
information here, and severely affects the enjoyment of many.

Why you think I should address one severe problem, ( indeed a whole
complex of problems), in an orderly, sensible, logical and informed
fashion, and at the same time fail to address another problem which
has caused myself and others considerable grief, is rather odd don´t
you think?

Why do you think he should be allowed to continue abusing and
insulting people, or posting a load of propaganda against me, and
others, but that I should not be allowed to retaliate?

I really would like to know.

TL
MC

On 16-Sep-2007, Mike wrote:

Why do you think he should be allowed to continue abusing and
insulting people, or posting a load of propaganda against me, and
others, but that I should not be allowed to retaliate?

I really would like to know.

Mike

You are never going to stop him
Everytime you engage in diatribes against ea other you both look like fools
and it accomplishes nothing
In fact it detracts from your someimes informational and useful posts
Ignore him!
What else can you do?


Acquiring specific information on some
of these things is also becoming increasingly difficult, as a number
of the extremely large industrial concerns, which operate globally,
actively conceal all sorts of things, because they don´t want people
to know the extent of their control, and the massive damage they are
causing for profit.

I am disgusted and ****ing outraged with what people and corporaions do to
this planet
Esp in that the US is the largest single violator of world polution
standards
I am ****ing outraged by the wars that we perpetuate in the name of liberty
, frredom and the AAmerican way
while all they are is methiods for the wealth to exploit the poor - Jus
another facet of American - world imperialism

Bush, Cheney and their posse are only figurehgeads but thry are guilty of
the most heinous war crimes and environmental damage.
All for the ****ing dollar.

What can I do ?
- not much
It is enough io drive one nuts!
But I do not to let that happen

All I can do is open my BIG moth in outrage on these boards and a few other
places- react with my vote - but as the optioons are asinine so all that I
can really do
Is to mke sure that my own personal environment - family included- is a s
clean and as nurturing as possible.
We luckily have a lot of land
Throwing a cigarette butt or a beer can on the ground or other kinds of
detritus is specifiaclly banned from my property - One could get capped
I make sure that my duaghter - her family and grandchildren respect the
enviromnement as much as possible

There are a LOT of toxic assholes on this planet - way too ****ing many
I have unfortunately had occasion to throw people off of my land I suspect
that there will be quite a few more in the years to come.

I do not mean to say here that Fortenberry is one of the toxix ones
I like him in some ways
But if he drives you nuts-

Forgert and ignore Fortenberry!
That kind of venom and hate detracts from you

Use it in more positive ways.
My 2 cents
Fred

On 16 Sep, 20:12, wrote:

Use it in more positive ways.
My 2 cents
Fred

Sounds quite sensible Fred, but asking "what can I do", is not a
sensible substitute for actually doing something. It requires very
considerable patience and fortitude to do some things at all. For
many years I have been involved in the rearing, stocking, and release
of sea-trout for instance, only to see vast numbers of them caught on
the high seas by drift netters, or ambushed at river mouths, the size
of the few returnees steadily and constantly decreasing as their
ocean food chain is destroyed, among many other things to produce
artificial sterile monstrosities for other "anglers" But still I
continue, as do others, even though many of us think it is mainly a
rearguard action eventually doomed to failure. It "might" work, if
enough people come to their senses and actually do something. But if
nobody does anything at all then the chances dwindle to less than
zero.

One requires reliable information in order to achieve anything at all,
and one must ACT upon it. Even in a small way.

Fortenberry does not "drive me nuts" as you put it, he is just a major
nuisance in this environment. He prevents it working as it should,
for the free interchange of information. he never disagrees with
anybody about anything on the basis of fact, he just says something or
other must be so because he says it is. All you have to do to see
that, is to read his posts. He launches personal attacks and
propaganda campaigns. Most people give up and let him get away with
it, or decide to ignore him. I am just not the type to give up, either
with sea-trout or Fortenberries.

You can see the same effect creeping in with others. Look at Lacourses
reply to my post on Triploid fish. He doesn´t know anythingat all
about it, and he doesn´t want to. The selfish ******* couldn´t care
less as long as he can use his money to get what he wants in his
lifetime. He doesn´t care whether you or anybody can fish, or even if
there are any fish, except where he wants to catch them on his terms.

There is not only point in accepting such, it is a major part of the
problem.

Now I am sure you mean well with your advice, and even think it is
good advice, as do many others. But it is not good advice. It is
sticking one´s head in the sand, and no good will ever come of it.

TL
MC

On Sep 16, 9:16 am, Mike wrote:
Considerations on angling for stock fish.

I have a numbre of objections to angling for stocked rainbow trout.
These are based entirely on the facts known to me, and are not a
result of "snobbery" or any other such silly considerations, as some
people seem to assume.

1. The use of such fish is a massive drain on the environment.

2. There is no sensible comparison whatsoever between such fish and
any wild fish.

3. Although such fish may appear outwardly similar to wild fish,
after a period in suitable conditions, they do not behave like wild
fish. In many cases being almost tame, and can be caught easily using
various tricks, or completely outlandish concoctions such as power
bait, to which they have been accustomed artificailly. They may also
be easily caught using crushed trout pellets. Many of the flies used
to catch such fish have no counterparts in nature, and are taken by
the fish mainly as a result of their extreme conditioning during
rearing to react to food items in a particular manner. They have been
been conditioned to do so, and rarely possess even a fraction of the
wariness of wild fish. Especialy when in shoals, which they often
maintain until they are caught or die, they are extremely competitive.

4. In the majority of cases, these fish are badly contaminated with
accumulated poisons and toxins. This is also a result of being fed on
processed fishmeal, which concentrates various toxins, mainly in the
fatty cells of such fish, and also the chenical and other complex drug
residues used in their production.

5. I find the production of such animals purely for the purpose of
playing with them distasteful. They are produced at great cost,
damage, and danger to the environment, purely for the personal
gratification of anglers who wish to fish for them. This is not at all
the same thing as directly farming a food source.

6 As a result of the concentration on such practices, rivers and other
natural environments are being more and more negelected, and even
considered "inferior", because nothing even remotely resembling the
number and amount of fish can be caught there, and anglers
expectations have as a result of this, been raised far beyond what is
normal, or even remotely sensible in this regard. massive amounts of
money and resources are being wasted in order to provide personal and
"convenient" gratification to anglers, which would be far better spent
on improving the environment, and not in activel destroying it.

7. Also as a result of conditioning, many of these fish will only
feed at certain times, corresponding to the feeding times in the
hatcheries and feeding stews in which they were reared. Such aberrant
behaviour is often referred to as "the evening rise". In some places
where the fish have time to become acclimatised, ( although they never
entirely lose their conditioning), this may even be the case, but it
is mainly the result of conditioning to feed at a certain time.

There are a number of other reasons as well, but those are the main
ones.

TL
MC
"There is no sensible comparison whatsoever between such fish and
any wild fish. "
How many wild rainbows have you caugt?

On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 17:05:22 GMT, wrote:

I have always wondered - and have never been there - on an overpopulated
island - like Japan
What kind of frsheater fish do they fish for?
Re there any wild bnative species left?

Probably the primary freshwater game fish there is the LM bass, but there are
native trout as well - and of course stockers. A method of fishing similar to
high stick nymphing evolved there when the country was still closed to the west,
but western style fly fishing is more common there days.

A lot of Japan is mountainous and sparsely settled, the population is
concentrated in the big cities. I have fished for trout there, but the
regulations and methods of gaining access can be a bit confusing. The streams
are lovely, though, and worth the effort. I've also fished for bass in the
Imperial moat in Tokyo, which isn't quite as lovely in some places.
--
Charlie...
http://www.chocphoto.com