Fly Fishing History 1A

riverman wrote:

"JR" wrote
..... He tied TWO flies, and NEITHER of them was a PT! They are
really nicely tied flies, though, and I'm glad to have them, especially
as illustrations of just what made George George. Child was cookin' on
his very own planet.

I seem to remember some discussion about that on ROFF, where the flies were
described as 'looking like something that was laying around gathering dust,
and not freshly tied for the swap'.... Was that the one?

I don't think so, since I believe this is the first mention on ROFF of
George's contribution to that particular swap. They were fine, clean
flies.

"slenon" wrote in message
...
The origins of stupid notions that people hold dear is one of the
more
fascinating aspects of a study of human character. We are indeed
fortunate to have the mother lode at our disposal here in ROFF. If
you have a clue and don't mind sharing, I'd like to know where you
got
the bizarre idea that I've got "self-destructive desires".
Wolfgang

See previous post in this thread expressing desire to have friends
shoot
you.

I've checked the entire thread very carefully. I see no such
expression. Perhaps you could point it out?

Then, quit sniffing those tissue fixatives. They've damaged your
sense of
humor.

The nice thing about paraformaldehyde is that it's application halts
degradation. You will note, if you look at the signature below, that
I am all the man that I ever was.

Now that we've formalinized this bit of bombast, feel free return to
your
normally scheduled, paid activities.

Well, we can never know for sure what might have been, but I'm going
to guess that I would have felt free even in the absence of a special
license from you. But, thanks anyway.

Wolfgang
see?......all there!

"Scott Seidman" wrote in message
. 1.4...

.....Often, you can judge a book by its cover.

In which case, not a few of us should be banned in Boston......or at
least be restricted to the use of those with a legitimate scholarly
interest.

Wolfgang

I've checked the entire thread very carefully. I see no such expression.
Perhaps you could point it out?

No, I didn't save the post in question. I rarely save posts or entire
threads. I'm sure you can recall them as easily as I. The words "shoot me"
will provide all you need in way of search string when paired with your id.
But I'm sure you know the mechanism.

The nice thing about paraformaldehyde is that it's application halts
degradation.

That is its primary function. I can think of a few other reasons for
keeping it around.


You will note, if you look at the signature below, that I am all the man
that I ever was.

I'll have to take your word for it. Your spectacles might suggest
otherwise. I, on the other hand, have, and acknowledge, considerable
technical augmentation over a long period of years.

I'm going to guess that I would have felt free even in the absence of a
special license from you. But, thanks anyway.

You might well have. And truth be told, it's only a regular license. You'll
have to apply at the licentious bureau for special licensure. But you're
most welcome.

--
Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69
Drowning flies to Darkstar

http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/i...age92kword.htm

Hi Richard,

I feel like I am in the "Twilight Zone".

--
Bill Kiene

Kiene's Fly Shop
Sacramento, CA
www.kiene.com

"RDL" wrote in message
...
Boy, don't you just love this, Bill posts great information, but gets
flamed
for it most every time. If I were him, I wouldn't bother either.

Richard


"Tim Carter" wrote in message
...

Did you archive GG posts? If so, I'd point out that his style
wasn't
all
that well received back when.

HTH

Op --If there weren't so many loverly people postin', I'd still
bother.--

An observation no less astute for the likelihood that it is shared.

Wolfgang
who should, perhaps, be bracing for another decent into the maelstrom?

My Compubox shows Mr. Kiene throwing out the first thinly veiled jab.
I'd
have just let him tire himself on some paper tigers, but, he did ask for
it.


As far as the Mustad hooks go, The Fly Tier's Benchside Reference
mentions
that pinching a barb down perpendicular to the hook increases the risk
of
breaking the tip and suggests pinching the barb parallel to the hook;
inserting the hook only deep enough in the pliers' jaws to cover hook
spear.

Scott Seidman wrote:

Willi wrote in news:3fb3ab3a$0$193$75868355
@news.frii.net:


I think it's reasonable to judge a person's behavior on ROFF, but
another to extrapolate that behavior into any kind of accurate judgment
of their character in "real" life.

Willi




Willi--

I hear this a lot, and I just don't buy it.


I do know that it's true for me.



A man is responsible for his appearance, demeanor, and behavior in whatever medium he chooses for his
discourse.

I agree with this, but it doesn't mean that the way a person acts on an
internet newsgroup is an accurate reflection of how they act in "real" life.

Although it may be due to a lack of skill on my part, I haven't been
especially good at predicting how well I would like a poster in person
from his postings on ROFF. The only two people from ROFF who I found
distasteful when I met them were two of the people that I especially
looked forward to meeting based on their postings on ROFF. A couple
other people whose postings I found "iffy" turned out to be great
companions. I now try to be open minded when meeting people I have
previously "met" on ROFF.



Abraham Lincoln pointed out that first opinions are a valid way
to judge character, because a man is responsible for how he comes across
from the moment you meet him.

He was speaking of face to face interactions, and even so, first
impressions can be wrong. On the internet and especially in newsgroups,
there is alot of posturing. People present personas and interact in
different ways than they do in "real" life. (Which in itself is telling,
but you often have to meet the person in "real" life to know it).

However, more importantly, the impression one gives on a newsgroup is
based on the written word and a good part of how someone comes across is
dependent on writing skills and style. I don't know if I'm in the norm
or not, but before I started posting, I did very little writing in my
day to day life. The last time in my life that I did much writing on a
day to day basis was when I was a teacher 25 years ago. Before that it
was when I was in grad school. Writing just hadn't been part of my life.
I find (and have always found) that putting what's on my mind into
written words, especially when dealing with more complex issues, is VERY
difficult - MUCH more difficult than dealing with them verbally.

Unless someone has natural talent or some very good skills, many of the
intonations and body postures we use to communicate in day to day life
are missing when posting on a newsgroup.

How often are posts that were intended to be humorous misinterpreted on
ROFF when if these same statements were made face to face, the humor
would have been obvious?



Often, you can judge a book by its cover.


And often you can't.

Willi

"slenon" wrote in message
. com...
I've checked the entire thread very carefully. I see no such
expression.
Perhaps you could point it out?

No, I didn't save the post in question.

Oh.....well....gosh, that's too bad. I didn't either. Rats! Now
we'll never know what we were talking about!

I rarely save posts or entire threads.

You should......well, the posts anyway....you can reuse them for
fences and suchlike. Threads I don't much bother with
either.....unless it's like half a spool or something.

I'm sure you can recall them as easily as I.

Well, that seems to be the sticking point.......

The words "shoot me"
will provide all you need in way of search string when paired with
your id.
But I'm sure you know the mechanism.

Judging by the above, I'd guess I don't even know the language.


The nice thing about paraformaldehyde is that it's application
halts
degradation.

That is its primary function.

Good to know. I'll tell my boss......we'd sorta been wondering.

I can think of a few other reasons for
keeping it around.

Sentimental value? Old times sake?

You will note, if you look at the signature below, that I am all
the man
that I ever was.

I'll have to take your word for it.

Very good of you, under the circumstances.

Your spectacles might suggest
otherwise.

Hey, wait a minute! You just said you'd take my word for it! And
besides, if you really believe that wearing glasses makes one less of
a man, then I strongly urge you to avoid attending any of these claves
people are always talking about. Some of these guys take that ****
pretty seriously, and when they get on a tear, even I can't control
them.........bunch'a mean *******s!

I, on the other hand, have, and acknowledge, considerable
technical augmentation over a long period of years.

Hm......since today seems to be one of those linguistical, semantical
kind of days, may I point out that in this instance the use of
"acknowledge" is superfluous, reiterative, repetitious, and
unnecessary as, by saying that you "have", you are already
acknowledging and thus you don't really need to acknowledge that you
acknowledge?

I'm going to guess that I would have felt free even in the absence
of a
special license from you. But, thanks anyway.

You might well have.

Well, I probably would have!

And truth be told,

Ah! Something new today, after all!

it's only a regular license. You'll
have to apply at the licentious bureau for special licensure....

Mm......boring.

Game over.

Wolfgang

Willi wrote in
:

A man is responsible for his appearance, demeanor, and behavior in
whatever medium he chooses for his discourse.

I agree with this, but it doesn't mean that the way a person acts on
an internet newsgroup is an accurate reflection of how they act in
"real" life.

Believe it or not, you're interacting with people, and this is real life.
Only one aspect of life, but quite real. Realer, even, because your words
are archived and can come back at you.

We usually see only this usenet aspect of a personality. For example, I
see you virtually a lot more than I see you in person. For me, then, your
usenet persona is more real than the you in person, though I still don't
think that the two are as easily separable as you do.

Now, if a person chooses to carry himself on the usenet in a manner that
most would consider inappropriate for one reason or another, but doesn't
choose to do so in the flesh, that doesn't excuse the flaw in character.
We may or may not choose to overlook the flaw, but its still there.

To carry this to the extreme, a man can be a serial rapist by night, and
seem perfectly normal to his buddies. More probably, a man can go home,
beat the hell out of his wife every night, and be all friendly smiles to
his friends at work. Are the friends supposed to overlook that the man is
a wifebeater, just because they see no evidence of it during the day? Of
course not. The man in question just has a secret side to his personality
that would really impact the way others think of him if they knew about it.
For some reason, maybe people just have some troubles hiding their secret
sides in virtual rooms.

Yeah, there are misunderstandings and some problems with communication.
How a person chooses to deal with these situations gives us a pretty good
glimpse into overall character.


Scott

Hi All ROFFers,

I think that about a dozen sales in 5 years from this mostly wonderful news
group is not the driving force here folks.

My business is 99% walk-in, luckily in a huge, stronger than most, market
place, Sacramento, CA. Our tackle sales volume is about 10% from the highest
in the US for single independent fly shops and it all goes out the front
door. It is not really a big deal though for a small business today because
as far as fly tackle sales goes, there are only a handful of really large
successful fly shops in America today. The Fly Shop, Bob Marriott's and
Kaufmann's are the only big guys on the west coast. They have walk-in sales,
eCommerce, mail order catalog, travel, guide service, private waters and
schools. These people would have been very successful at anything they would
have tried.

If I ever go eCommerce I surely won't be coming here to try to drum up any
business. I have had ~4 ROFF walk in to my shop and I enjoyed them a lot. I
would be more apt to give them some flies and take them fishing than try to
sell them anything.

It just seem like the most vocal here are either really uninformed or very
jealous or very far behind the times or just really cheap or just like to be
on the other side of the fence? Now if you are not an lonely vocal bully,
this should not bother you. Sorry you normal people have to read some of
this.

You can say that you think Mustad hooks are wonderful and maybe even better
in your opinion than Japanese hooks and I will respect that, but don't start
giving me this BS about trying to sell you some new yuppie crap. I am not
interested in trying to get anyone to buy it from me so give that a rest.

I have some old buddies here at my shop that come in and weekly I would see
them arguing on one side of the issue and then come in a week and get on the
other side of the fence so they could keep arguing and talking loudly so the
new people might think they know something. Very entertaining.

Maybe slow down and read people's posts. I only post pretty accurate info
that is very pertinent to today's fly fishing market. It is a collection of
info I get from dozens of sources. I am not asking you to buy any of it from
anyone. If you think you already have all the answers, great.

Again, sadly our personal experience are meaningless in the big picture. If
anyone here ever took any statistics or chemistry classes in college they
would understand my view on the "one test" stuff. I know that somehow egos
keep many so called intelligent people from understanding how statistical
testing is done. You don't buy three kind of tippet and then take it home
and run an independent test and then try to tell the world that you have the
answers on mono.

I never have talked about how I out fished anyone or am some big time fly
fisherman. I just know where to go, when to go there and what to take with
you.

I constantly talk to all the best fly fishers and fly fishing guides along
with try to get out some my self to gather info that makes my information so
valuable.

They only thing I can guarantee you is that I know more about fly fishing
equipment than most because of my long experience and the fact that I am
daily in one of the largest (4000') independent fly shops in the US. My info
is so close to center that the only people that can disagree are the ones
that were not breast feed.

PS: I did not ever say here that I would not be happy to have anyone here as
a customer but don't feel compelled to shop with me for any other rerason
than that I would do a good job for you. I would prefer you first try to
find a friendly local fly shop to help you.

--
Bill Kiene

Kiene's Fly Shop
Sacramento, CA
www.kiene.com

"Wayne Harrison" wrote in message
. com...

"Willi" wrote


and you're always so neatly woven?

Willi


willi: when are you gonna realize that bill is like george was: it's
all about money.

your friend in the old north state
wayno

Wolfgang:
You should......well, the posts anyway....you can reuse them for fences
and suchlike. .

I'm partial to engineer stakes. Sand anchors work down here, too.

Oh.....well....gosh, that's too bad. I didn't either. Rats! Now
we'll never know what we were talking about!

No, rats were not the topic of conversation nor are they on tonight's menu.

Well, that seems to be the sticking point.......

Knife, awl, or bodkin? But have care not to break the point. Otherwise,
the owner would be looking daggers at one or both.

if you really believe that wearing glasses makes one less of
a man, then I strongly urge you to avoid attending any of these claves
people are always talking about.

Despite their corrective nature, I find them still to be less desireable
than having 20/20 uncorrected vision. They do limit and hamper many
functions, mine included.

you are already acknowledging and thus you don't really need to
acknowledge that you acknowledge?

Acknowledged. An I leave you the last words.

Game over.

--
Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69
Drowning flies to Darkstar

http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/i...age92kword.htm