Sage rod advice, no pun

On Sep 16, 9:25*am, wrote:

I've fished and hunted with a wide range of gear, and IMO, once a
certain level is reached, everything beyond is mere preference or folks
buying into sales hype. *If you say Sage pushes the envelope, I tend to
believe it, but I have to wonder if it's an envelope that needs pushing
as far as the vast number of FFers are objectively concerned.

Be it education, profession, or recreation, most people's "evolve"
over time. And as it applies to fly fishing, the individuals
preferences and the ability to get the "most" out of the equipment
will evolve over time. Sage and the rest of the tackle makers stay in
business making and selling rods/reels/etc. As you know, if they can't
convince someone to buy their rods then they aren't going to survive.
As much as I liked the LL series, if they had kept to that, I doubt
they'd be doing much business now.

pickup. *OTOH, if you break down in Possum Holler at 8:30 on a Saturday
night, chances are you'll be able to find the baling wire to fix the
Ford, even some actual parts and several folks who can help. *

Now you're bringing back painful memories. Ever had a BMW X5 fuel pump
go out on a UP "highway" on a Friday night? Not a good thing, but in
retrospect better to have it go out there then some of the places I
had it earlier in the week. Mr. Reid would have had new tales to tell.

On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 07:01:39 -0700 (PDT), Wayne Knight
wrote:

On Sep 16, 12:50*am, wrote:

Just so there is no mistake Mr.Knight, I am quite disgusted and not a
little disappointed at your use of the reference.

I have tried to stay out of this fray you and others seem to
constantly want to engage in as much as possible. I remember the
specific comments about the behaviors that troubled you and the
instantaneous holier than thou responses that has led to this multi-
year flame fest. Personally I wish everyone would give it a rest as I
read your initial comments not so much homophobic as something more
along the lines of a culture clash which has led to an even bigger,
longer lasting culture clash.

However whatever else happens, the train station image, and only the
train station image provides an opportunity for parody and satire. It
was in that context that I made my response to Richard.

And no it's not acceptable to use racial slurs in pleasant
conversation, alas there is nothing I can, nor to my knowledge, anyone
else can do to prevent it. I didn't like Dickie's Richard Pryor
references either, at least in the way he presented it. But no one has
appointed me lord and master over the newsgroup and to my knowledge,
we don't collectively have access to the various servers that would
allow us to delete "offensive posts."

In other words, I wasn't taking a swipe at you, just trying to ensure
the "**** you" did not escalate into something bigger.

**** you, Cho...er, Knight...why do you hate America...?

HTH,
Dickie

And for the record, the Pryor post wasn't intended to be "funny" as
such. I was amused at Obama and his minions immediately bringing up the
fact that McCain had used the "lipstick on a pig..." comment in trying
to deny that Obama's comment was connected to Palin's "lipstick,
pitbulls, and soccer moms" shtick. Anyone with a lick of sense (and
even those without, such as his audience...), including Obama himself,
knew he meant to connect them. He knew what he was doing, he just
totally miscalculated the effect of it. And I don't think he meant it
as sexist (well, not exactly) but to claim he wasn't referencing it in
the swipe at Palin and McCain was flat-out horse****.

I had a pretty good idea of the reaction to my post, and the reaction
was pretty much as expected. I admit I did find it amusing that folks
who typically defend Obama's comments are the ones who not only did the
most vocal judging of my post, but did the mental connection from a
non-existent actual connection - they saw an album title and a link to
Obama and connected the two when no such connection was actually
technically made. No one seem outraged because of making an alleged
connection asking if Obama was "Serious?" or thinking folks were worked
up over something "That (he) Said?" - they saw the one word and
instantly made the connection.

TC,
R

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 07:01:39 -0700 (PDT), Wayne Knight
wrote:

On Sep 16, 12:50 am, wrote:

Just so there is no mistake Mr.Knight, I am quite disgusted and not a
little disappointed at your use of the reference.

I have tried to stay out of this fray you and others seem to
constantly want to engage in as much as possible. I remember the
specific comments about the behaviors that troubled you and the
instantaneous holier than thou responses that has led to this multi-
year flame fest. Personally I wish everyone would give it a rest as I
read your initial comments not so much homophobic as something more
along the lines of a culture clash which has led to an even bigger,
longer lasting culture clash.

However whatever else happens, the train station image, and only the
train station image provides an opportunity for parody and satire. It
was in that context that I made my response to Richard.

And no it's not acceptable to use racial slurs in pleasant
conversation, alas there is nothing I can, nor to my knowledge, anyone
else can do to prevent it. I didn't like Dickie's Richard Pryor
references either, at least in the way he presented it. But no one has
appointed me lord and master over the newsgroup and to my knowledge,
we don't collectively have access to the various servers that would
allow us to delete "offensive posts."

In other words, I wasn't taking a swipe at you, just trying to ensure
the "**** you" did not escalate into something bigger.

**** you, Cho...er, Knight...why do you hate America...?

HTH,
Dickie

And for the record, the Pryor post wasn't intended to be "funny" as
such. I was amused at Obama and his minions immediately bringing up the
fact that McCain had used the "lipstick on a pig..." comment in trying
to deny that Obama's comment was connected to Palin's "lipstick,
pitbulls, and soccer moms" shtick. Anyone with a lick of sense (and
even those without, such as his audience...), including Obama himself,
knew he meant to connect them. He knew what he was doing, he just
totally miscalculated the effect of it. And I don't think he meant it
as sexist (well, not exactly) but to claim he wasn't referencing it in
the swipe at Palin and McCain was flat-out horse****.

I had a pretty good idea of the reaction to my post, and the reaction
was pretty much as expected. I admit I did find it amusing that folks
who typically defend Obama's comments are the ones who not only did the
most vocal judging of my post, but did the mental connection from a
non-existent actual connection - they saw an album title and a link to
Obama and connected the two when no such connection was actually
technically made. No one seem outraged because of making an alleged
connection asking if Obama was "Serious?" or thinking folks were worked
up over something "That (he) Said?" - they saw the one word and
instantly made the connection.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Wolfgang

On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 07:20:34 -0700 (PDT), Wayne Knight
wrote:

On Sep 16, 9:25*am, wrote:

I've fished and hunted with a wide range of gear, and IMO, once a
certain level is reached, everything beyond is mere preference or folks
buying into sales hype. *If you say Sage pushes the envelope, I tend to
believe it, but I have to wonder if it's an envelope that needs pushing
as far as the vast number of FFers are objectively concerned.

Be it education, profession, or recreation, most people's "evolve"
over time. And as it applies to fly fishing, the individuals
preferences and the ability to get the "most" out of the equipment
will evolve over time. Sage and the rest of the tackle makers stay in
business making and selling rods/reels/etc. As you know, if they can't
convince someone to buy their rods then they aren't going to survive.
As much as I liked the LL series, if they had kept to that, I doubt
they'd be doing much business now.

Sure they would. I don't begrudge a company making new models simply
for the sake of doing so and to be able to sell them to folks who just
gotta have the latest and greatest. Where I do begrudge them is when
they start in with the BS about how it's gonna make you a better fisher,
caster, person, etc. Experienced, even moderately so, fishers and
casters are at their own peril as they should know better, but novices
don't know any better.

So for you novices who might read this: No rod, Sage or otherwise, at
any price, is going to turn you into a cross between Lefty Kreh and
Steve Rajeff. There is no "Excalibur" out there that you can pull from
a magical rack and become king. If you _want_ a $500 or $5000USD rod,
and can blithely pay for it without a second thought, go for it, but if
you think doing so will be an objectively wise monetary and fishing
decision, you're kidding yourself. I've seen and done a lot of fishing
and hunting and I will _promise_ you that expensive gear is _rarely_
even the wise economic choice, much less necessary. And yes, as I'm
sure will be pointed out, I do have some high-dollar gear, but I have it
because I want it. I make no claim to myself or anyone else that it is
necessary or was "a smart investment" (although some of it has turned
out to be so, should I ever sell it).

pickup. *OTOH, if you break down in Possum Holler at 8:30 on a Saturday
night, chances are you'll be able to find the baling wire to fix the
Ford, even some actual parts and several folks who can help. *

Now you're bringing back painful memories. Ever had a BMW X5 fuel pump
go out on a UP "highway" on a Friday night? Not a good thing, but in
retrospect better to have it go out there then some of the places I
had it earlier in the week. Mr. Reid would have had new tales to tell.

No, but I have had the neutral safety switch plug ripped off of the
sensor of the tranny of a 88 Grand Wagoneer while driving snow-covered
lease roads in the middle of pheasant hunting between Hardesty and Slap
Out on a Sunday afternoon. In fact, IIRC, it was the same week some
asshole then from Kansas was gonna come with us, but couldn't make it
down. IAC, I called the owner of a service station in Perryton at home,
he said to run by his boneyard and cut one from any of the Dodges on the
back row. I suspect that had I called about a fuel pump about a BMW,
he'd have hung up on me...

TC,
R

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 07:20:34 -0700 (PDT), Wayne Knight
wrote:

On Sep 16, 9:25 am, wrote:

I've fished and hunted with a wide range of gear, and IMO, once a
certain level is reached, everything beyond is mere preference or folks
buying into sales hype. If you say Sage pushes the envelope, I tend to
believe it, but I have to wonder if it's an envelope that needs pushing
as far as the vast number of FFers are objectively concerned.

Be it education, profession, or recreation, most people's "evolve"
over time. And as it applies to fly fishing, the individuals
preferences and the ability to get the "most" out of the equipment
will evolve over time. Sage and the rest of the tackle makers stay in
business making and selling rods/reels/etc. As you know, if they can't
convince someone to buy their rods then they aren't going to survive.
As much as I liked the LL series, if they had kept to that, I doubt
they'd be doing much business now.

Sure they would. I don't begrudge a company making new models simply
for the sake of doing so and to be able to sell them to folks who just
gotta have the latest and greatest. Where I do begrudge them is when
they start in with the BS about how it's gonna make you a better fisher,
caster, person, etc. Experienced, even moderately so, fishers and
casters are at their own peril as they should know better, but novices
don't know any better.

So for you novices who might read this: No rod, Sage or otherwise, at
any price, is going to turn you into a cross between Lefty Kreh and
Steve Rajeff. There is no "Excalibur" out there that you can pull from
a magical rack and become king. If you _want_ a $500 or $5000USD rod,
and can blithely pay for it without a second thought, go for it, but if
you think doing so will be an objectively wise monetary and fishing
decision, you're kidding yourself. I've seen and done a lot of fishing
and hunting and I will _promise_ you that expensive gear is _rarely_
even the wise economic choice, much less necessary. And yes, as I'm
sure will be pointed out, I do have some high-dollar gear, but I have it
because I want it. I make no claim to myself or anyone else that it is
necessary or was "a smart investment" (although some of it has turned
out to be so, should I ever sell it).

pickup. OTOH, if you break down in Possum Holler at 8:30 on a Saturday
night, chances are you'll be able to find the baling wire to fix the
Ford, even some actual parts and several folks who can help.

Now you're bringing back painful memories. Ever had a BMW X5 fuel pump
go out on a UP "highway" on a Friday night? Not a good thing, but in
retrospect better to have it go out there then some of the places I
had it earlier in the week. Mr. Reid would have had new tales to tell.

No, but I have had the neutral safety switch plug ripped off of the
sensor of the tranny of a 88 Grand Wagoneer while driving snow-covered
lease roads in the middle of pheasant hunting between Hardesty and Slap
Out on a Sunday afternoon. In fact, IIRC, it was the same week some
asshole then from Kansas was gonna come with us, but couldn't make it
down. IAC, I called the owner of a service station in Perryton at home,
he said to run by his boneyard and cut one from any of the Dodges on the
back row. I suspect that had I called about a fuel pump about a BMW,
he'd have hung up on me...

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Wolfgang

On Sep 16, 4:01*pm, Wayne Knight wrote:
On Sep 16, 12:50*am, wrote:

Just so there is no mistake Mr.Knight, I am quite disgusted and not a
little disappointed at your use of the reference.

I have tried to stay out of this fray you and others seem to
constantly want to engage in as much as possible. I remember the
specific comments about the behaviors that troubled you and the
instantaneous holier than thou responses that has led to this multi-
year flame fest. Personally I wish everyone would give it a rest as I
read your initial comments not so much homophobic as something more
along the lines of a culture clash which has led to an even bigger,
longer lasting culture clash.

However whatever else happens, the train station image, and only the
train station image provides an opportunity for parody and satire. It
was in that context that I made my response to Richard.

And no it's not acceptable to use racial slurs in pleasant
conversation, alas there is nothing I can, nor to my knowledge, anyone
else *can do to prevent it. I didn't like Dickie's Richard Pryor
references either, at least in the way he presented it. But no one has
appointed me lord and master over the newsgroup and to my knowledge,
we don't collectively have access to the various servers that would
allow us to delete "offensive posts."

In other words, I wasn't taking a swipe at you, just trying to ensure
the "**** you" did not escalate into something bigger.

Seems reasonable enough I suppose. Unfortunately, due to the constant
lying propaganda, the "train station image" is now irrevocably bound
to my person. I am only too well aware that there is very little one
can do about anything here. Nevertheless, what little I can do I will.
There is also more others could do, but don´t.

Peer pressure would have some effect in many cases. Many of these
things occur simply because nobody protests and the perpetrators
constantly become bolder. You might well be the object of the next
attack, and nobody will lift a finger to help, simply because you didn
´t help either.

I realise I had a lot more to lose in real terms than most of you, and
indeed I accept that is was a mistake to ever use this group at all,
unfortunately there is no way to undo that now.

As far as Dean´s offensive spoutings are concerned, I did think it odd
and pretty disgraceful that Myron was basically the only one with the
gumption to speak out initially, and I considered his stance worthy of
support. That is all.

Anyway, I never had any argument with you, and don´t wish for one now.

On Sep 16, 1:33*pm, wrote:

Anyway, I never had any argument with you, and don´t wish for one now

Same here

On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 10:33:07 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Sep 16, 4:01*pm, Wayne Knight wrote:
On Sep 16, 12:50*am, wrote:

Just so there is no mistake Mr.Knight, I am quite disgusted and not a
little disappointed at your use of the reference.

I have tried to stay out of this fray you and others seem to
constantly want to engage in as much as possible. I remember the
specific comments about the behaviors that troubled you and the
instantaneous holier than thou responses that has led to this multi-
year flame fest. Personally I wish everyone would give it a rest as I
read your initial comments not so much homophobic as something more
along the lines of a culture clash which has led to an even bigger,
longer lasting culture clash.

However whatever else happens, the train station image, and only the
train station image provides an opportunity for parody and satire. It
was in that context that I made my response to Richard.

And no it's not acceptable to use racial slurs in pleasant
conversation, alas there is nothing I can, nor to my knowledge, anyone
else *can do to prevent it. I didn't like Dickie's Richard Pryor
references either, at least in the way he presented it. But no one has
appointed me lord and master over the newsgroup and to my knowledge,
we don't collectively have access to the various servers that would
allow us to delete "offensive posts."

In other words, I wasn't taking a swipe at you, just trying to ensure
the "**** you" did not escalate into something bigger.

Seems reasonable enough I suppose. Unfortunately, due to the constant
lying propaganda, the "train station image" is now irrevocably bound
to my person. I am only too well aware that there is very little one
can do about anything here. Nevertheless, what little I can do I will.
There is also more others could do, but don´t.

Peer pressure would have some effect in many cases. Many of these
things occur simply because nobody protests and the perpetrators
constantly become bolder. You might well be the object of the next
attack, and nobody will lift a finger to help, simply because you didn
´t help either.

I realise I had a lot more to lose in real terms than most of you, and
indeed I accept that is was a mistake to ever use this group at all,
unfortunately there is no way to undo that now.

As far as Dean´s offensive spoutings are concerned, I did think it odd
and pretty disgraceful that Myron was basically the only one with the
gumption to speak out initially, and I considered his stance worthy of
support. That is all.

Anyway, I never had any argument with you, and don´t wish for one now.

Michael, your skin is too thin to be on roff. You have never been
able to take criticism of *any* sort *from the very beginning*. You
lost it a long time ago when someone made a t-shirt mocking you.

I ask a question in all sincerity: How did anyone on roff cause you
to drop your fishing site? It seems to me and to others that you come
to roff to fight. If that is the case, you have come into a bar,
inhabited mostly by Americans, and you are going to get your ass
kicked. There is no reason whatsoever for you to remove your site.
No one on roff *cares* whether it is up and successful, or down in
shame. You come to roff - no one is forcing you to be here. And it
can be traced very easily and shownw that it is you who start most of
these ****ing contests.

If I was as unhappy as you, angry at everyone on a fishing group, I
sure as hell wouldn't go there, and if I did, I wouldn't try to pick a
fight. You should leave roff, or find a way to not start these
****ing contest. You present actions are not those of a sane man.

Dave

On Sep 16, 8:02*pm, Dave LaCourse wrote:


Michael, your skin is too thin to be on roff. *You have never been
able to take criticism of *any* sort *from the very beginning*. *You
lost it a long time ago when someone made a t-shirt mocking you. *

I ask a question in all sincerity: *How did anyone on roff cause you
to drop your fishing site? *It seems to me and to others that you come
to roff to fight. *If that is the case, you have come into a bar,
inhabited mostly by Americans, and you are going to get your ass
kicked. *There is no reason whatsoever for you to remove your site.
No one on roff *cares* whether it is up and successful, or down in
shame. *You come to roff - no one is forcing you to be here. *And it
can be traced very easily and shownw that it is you who start most of
these ****ing contests. *

If I was as unhappy as you, angry at everyone on a fishing group, I
sure as hell wouldn't go there, and if I did, I wouldn't try to pick a
fight. *You should leave roff, or find a way to not start these
****ing contest. *You present actions are not those of a sane man.

Dave

This is not a fishing group LaCourse, you and others have seen to
that, it is a ****ing disgrace, now largely populated by dick
dribbling liars who thinks it´s "fun" to libel, denigrate, and insult
others, regardless of any consequences.

This isn´t a bar, and even if it was you couldn´t kick my ass you
****ing stupid old degenerate. You apparently live in some weird
fantasy world and badly need a reailty check.

Nobody, least of all me, much cares what you think or write you stupid
old *******, and it makes no difference to me if all the stupid Yanks
in Christendom congregated here.

Other people have tried and tried and tried to get you to be sensible
and reasonable on many matters. You are just too ****ing stupid to
grasp it.

In the meantime, i will just keep plugging away at you and otzhers
here, hoping that your dribble dick falls off, or something else
really nice happens to you.

On Sep 16, 11:14*am, wrote:

Snipped Mikey gibber about this not being a fishing group.

So Mikey, why do you bring your **** to a thread that is about Sage
FISHING RODS? Maybe because what you are about is that it ALL has to
be about you or you whine. I suspect you've done a lot of whining in
your time, and if you havn't noticed men, particularly sportsmen do
not like whiners and moma's boys. I suspect that the same **** got
your ass kicked in Ireland or England or wherever you whined away your
youth.

You have always been welcomed as a fly fishing poster, but not as a
spoiled whiner. Frankly most of us have raised our kids and do not
feel obligated to constantly reassure an American-hating, 50
something, whining, pain in the ass.
Cowboy up and get on with life.
Dave