Ants

This past season I experienced several days of great fishing with ant
patterns. A day on Hebgen, when the lake was covered with calibaetis
and there were a few falling ants ... the ants were the secret to wonderful
success. And, my biggest fish of the season, a 23++ inch HFork Rainbow
ate a #18 ant pattern. I've had occasional good ant fishing over the
years, but this year it was special, maybe because of .....um .... ????.

I've been trying to find more information on ants as they related to fly
fishing ... especially flying ant swarms. I'm wondering if there are any
reliable ant places and times that you guys know about. Any way to
predict these swarms and the fabulous fishing they cause. Any literature
that addresses ants in more than the 'guess and folklore' style of most fly
fishing works?


YOUR ant experiences? special patterns? tactics? times and places (
yeah, asking a lot:-) ?

Larry L wrote:
...
YOUR ant experiences? special patterns? tactics? times and places (
yeah, asking a lot:-) ?

Just to provide a data point, I've never had much success with them,
perhaps because I have little confidence in them and don't fish them
very often. I'll almost always use a Griffith's Gnat instead of an
ant.

--
Ken Fortenberry

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message
...
Larry L wrote:
...
YOUR ant experiences? special patterns? tactics? times and places (
yeah, asking a lot:-) ?

Just to provide a data point, I've never had much success with them,
perhaps because I have little confidence in them and don't fish them
very often. I'll almost always use a Griffith's Gnat instead of an
ant.

I suspect its like other patterns. You have some success, and you fish with
it more. You fish with it more, and you inherently learn how to fish it
more effectively.

Bob La Londe
www.YumaBassMan.com

On Nov 5, 4:59*pm, "Larry L" wrote:
This past season I experienced several days of great fishing with ant
patterns. * * A day on Hebgen, when the lake was covered with calibaetis
and there were a few falling ants ... the ants were the secret to wonderful
success. * * And, my biggest fish of the season, a 23++ inch HFork Rainbow
ate a #18 ant pattern. * *I've had occasional good ant fishing over the
years, but this year it was special, maybe because of .....um .... ????.

I've been trying to find more information on ants as they related to fly
fishing ... especially flying ant swarms. * *I'm wondering if there are any
reliable ant places and times that you guys know about. * *Any way to
predict these swarms and the fabulous fishing they cause. * *Any literature
that addresses ants in more than the 'guess and folklore' style of most fly
fishing works?

YOUR ant experiences? * *special patterns? *tactics? times and places (
yeah, asking a lot:-) ?

There is quite a lot of material on ants, and there are specific
times, places, and occasions, for specific species.

Unfortunately, that is fishing related, and I am not going to say
anything about it. Not least, because the only major experience I have
of America is the ignorance and stupidity displayed by several of them
on this group.

On Wed, 05 Nov 2008 15:59:11 GMT, "Larry L"
wrote:

This past season I experienced several days of great fishing with ant
patterns. A day on Hebgen, when the lake was covered with calibaetis
and there were a few falling ants ... the ants were the secret to wonderful
success. And, my biggest fish of the season, a 23++ inch HFork Rainbow
ate a #18 ant pattern. I've had occasional good ant fishing over the
years, but this year it was special, maybe because of .....um .... ????.

I've been trying to find more information on ants as they related to fly
fishing ... especially flying ant swarms. I'm wondering if there are any
reliable ant places and times that you guys know about. Any way to
predict these swarms and the fabulous fishing they cause. Any literature
that addresses ants in more than the 'guess and folklore' style of most fly
fishing works?


YOUR ant experiences? special patterns? tactics? times and places (
yeah, asking a lot:-) ?


I've had very limited success with ants, winged or no. On only one
day I managed to catch a couple of small bluegills on a #18 winged red
ant. They've never struck when I tried a red w/o wings, nor a black,
with or w/o wings. I no longer even try them. I'll go with a
Griffith's Gnat first. LOTS of success on BGs with those. :-)

"Bob La Londe" wrote

..

I suspect its like other patterns. You have some success, and you fish
with it more. You fish with it more, and you inherently learn how to fish
it more effectively.



NOT in my case .... I've always lacked confidence in ants, certainly as a
searching pattern, mainly because they are so damn hard to see. The
successes I've had were during flying ant falls and to VERY selective fish,
NOT "fishing the water."

The Hebgen example saw the lake covered with calibaetis and me doing
terrible with rising rise all around, until I noticed the ants and changed
flies ... the fish were clearly looking for the ants amoungst the far more
numerous mayflies


I posted this link before, but do so to point out the picture ( well down
the page ) of the pumped contents of a good trout's throat ... even though
there were several different and far more obvious food forms in the drift

http://www.kimshew.com/flyfish/displ...php?log_id=345



Specific to ants, I'm looking for information on how better to predict the
where and when of mating swarms as I'm now convinced that they provide one
of fly fishing's best "hatches" .... if you can find one

Ants work for me. I started using them after finding a fish's stomach
full to bursting with them. (I've also found yellow jackets and other
wasps.)

Some fishermen speculate that the flavor of ants is irresistible to
trout, and I've heard stories that fish have gorged themselves to death
on big ant "hatches." I don't know about that, but I know that they like
ants, and that ants are supposed to have a strong flavor of formic acid.
I've never tasted them.

The carpenter ant hatch on the San Juan is supposed to be pretty
amazing. Has anyone out there fished it?

Ants are hard to impossible for me to see, especially in poor light, so
I like to use smallish black hi-vis foam beetle and maybe an ant dropper.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

On Nov 5, 7:31*pm, "Larry L" wrote:
"Bob La Londe" wrote

.



I suspect its like other patterns. *You have some success, and you fish
with it more. *You fish with it more, and you inherently learn how to fish
it more effectively.

NOT in my case * .... I've always lacked confidence in ants, certainly as a
searching pattern, mainly because they are so damn hard to see. * * *The
successes I've had were during flying ant falls and to VERY selective fish,
NOT "fishing the water."

The Hebgen example saw the lake covered with calibaetis and me doing
terrible with rising rise all around, until I noticed the ants and changed
flies ... the fish were clearly looking for the ants amoungst the far more
numerous mayflies

I posted this link before, but do so to point out the picture ( well down
the page ) of the pumped contents of a good trout's throat ... even though
there were several different and far more obvious food forms in the drift

http://www.kimshew.com/flyfish/displ...php?log_id=345

Specific to ants, I'm looking for information on how better to predict the
where and when of mating swarms as I'm now convinced that they provide one
of fly fishing's best "hatches" .... if you can find one

Some points which may assist you. The princess ants and the males
initially swarm near their nests, the mating flight takes place from
this location. The princess ( winged females) ants, then proceed to
another location, lose their wings, and become queens, forming another
nest.

There are many species of ants;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ant

http://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/TOOLS/ANTKEY/

http://www.earthlife.net/insects/ants.html

The swarming periods for a specific species, ( often in warm weather,
but not exclusively), are usually the same each year, dependant on
conditions ( 8...10 day period), but in many areas, especially wood
ants and similar, often fall into the water and are invariably taken
avidly by the fish. Using appropriate artificials works much better in
areas where they are common, but may also be successful as
serendipitous terrestrial imitations.

The SIZE of the ants is often quite critical. On some of the rivers I
fish large red wood ants are common,
http://www.centralpets.com/animals/i...s/ant4647.html
and there are large nests in various places. An ant of appropriate
size and colouring is invariably successful in the vicinity of such a
nest, whereas other imitations rarely are.

Floating ants, IN THE FILM, ( not with hackles holding them up) have
always worked best for me, and for other people with whom I have
discussed such matters. I use cork bodied ants a lot, painted with
nail varnish in the appropriate colours and then varnished with clear
varnish.

Even large fish will often concentrate on the ants to the exclusion of
all else, even in large multiple hatches.

If there are ants in the area, then a smear of sugar water or honey
water on various branches etc overhanging the stream and leading to
the base of the tree, will often result in a large column of worker
ants moving along beside the smear, fruit ans other similar materials
also works. This will also result in a steady stream of ants falling
into the stream, especially on windy days. This will usually attract
the largest fish to those areas. This is of course independent of
swarming times, and many ants of various species often fall from trees
on to water in such a manner. Trees whose leaves exude sticky
substances like maple, chestnut, and a few others are invariably
swarming with ants.

Whatever, there is a lot more, but that will doubtless get you
started. As with many other things, a lot of research is needed to
maximise results with the patterns you decide to use.

On Nov 5, 8:04*pm, wrote:
On Nov 5, 7:31*pm, "Larry L" wrote:



"Bob La Londe" wrote

.

I suspect its like other patterns. *You have some success, and you fish
with it more. *You fish with it more, and you inherently learn how to fish
it more effectively.

NOT in my case * .... I've always lacked confidence in ants, certainly as a
searching pattern, mainly because they are so damn hard to see. * * *The
successes I've had were during flying ant falls and to VERY selective fish,
NOT "fishing the water."

The Hebgen example saw the lake covered with calibaetis and me doing
terrible with rising rise all around, until I noticed the ants and changed
flies ... the fish were clearly looking for the ants amoungst the far more
numerous mayflies

I posted this link before, but do so to point out the picture ( well down
the page ) of the pumped contents of a good trout's throat ... even though
there were several different and far more obvious food forms in the drift

http://www.kimshew.com/flyfish/displ...php?log_id=345

Specific to ants, I'm looking for information on how better to predict the
where and when of mating swarms as I'm now convinced that they provide one
of fly fishing's best "hatches" .... if you can find one

Some points which may assist you. *The princess ants and the males
initially swarm near their nests, the mating flight takes place from
this location. The princess ( winged females) ants, then proceed to
another location, lose their wings, and become queens, forming another
nest.

There are many species of ants;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ant

http://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/TOOLS/ANTKEY/

http://www.earthlife.net/insects/ants.html

The swarming periods for a specific species, ( often in warm weather,
but not exclusively), are usually the same each year, dependant on
conditions ( 8...10 day period), but in many areas, especially wood
ants and similar, often fall into the water and are invariably taken
avidly by the fish. Using appropriate artificials works much better in
areas where they are common, but may also be successful as
serendipitous terrestrial imitations.

The SIZE of the ants is often quite critical. On some of the rivers I
fish large red wood ants are common,http://www.centralpets.com/animals/i...s/ant4647.html
and there are large nests in various places. An ant of appropriate
size and colouring is invariably successful in the vicinity of such a
nest, whereas other imitations rarely are.

Floating ants, *IN THE FILM, ( not with hackles holding them up) have
always worked best for me, and for other people with whom I have
discussed such matters. I use cork bodied ants a lot, painted with
nail varnish in the appropriate colours and then varnished with clear
varnish.

Even large fish will often concentrate on the ants to the exclusion of
all else, even in large multiple hatches.

If there are ants in the area, then a smear of sugar water or honey
water on various branches etc overhanging the stream and leading to
the base of the tree, will often result in a large column of worker
ants moving along beside the smear, fruit ans other similar materials
also works. *This will also result in a steady stream of ants falling
into the stream, especially on windy days. *This will usually attract
the largest fish to those areas. *This is of course independent of
swarming times, and many ants of various species often fall from trees
on to water in such a manner. Trees whose leaves exude sticky
substances like maple, chestnut, and a few others are invariably
swarming with ants.

Whatever, there is a lot more, but that will doubtless get you
started. As with many other things, a lot of research is needed to
maximise results with the patterns you decide to use.

Also, you will need a "sighting post" on ants in the film, as they may
otherwise be difficult to see.

My criteria, in order;

Floatation, Size, colour, translucence ( view the natural AGAINST the
light). I prefer cork, but other materials ( especially in smaller
sizes) like varnished wool will work. Foam is also good if it is the
right colour;

http://www.virtualflybox.com/pattern...ap_id=9&id=607

http://www.danica.com/flytier/istanc...s_foam_ant.htm

http://www.swedneckflyfishing.com/foamant.htm

http://www.classicflytying.com/pattern5147.html

http://globalflyfisher.com/patterns/ant/

http://www.riverrunoutfitters.com/st...?productid=528

https://littleriveroutfitters.com/st...cat=941&page=2

http://www.blueribbonflies.com/merch...eticfoam.shtml

There are many more. I use cork and foam mainly, but I make the foam
bodies myself by cutting them out with a wing cutter. I only use a few
strands of dyed soft hackle ( game bird, partridge, etc) for legs, and
no stiff cock hackles etc,

http://search.freefind.com/find.html...query=ants&t=s