Rod length in small creek fishing

snip
BTW, while doing a search on groups.google.com to see past discussions
about this, I also bumped into this specialty rod series:

http://www.flyrods.com/enso_info.html

Has anyone tried any of these? (I am quite sure you all know I can
have no relationship whatsover with this company. :-))

--
Jarmo Hurri

Hi Jarmo,

This is one of the Green River rods, isn't it? They had a pretty good
reputation for bamboo rods built by Robert Gorman (I think) but I have no
personal experience with either their cane or carbon rods.

Vaughan

"Steve_sullivan" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
In article ,
"Mike Connor" wrote:

They prefer to fish a "trophy" water, for very
large "finless wonders", or "educated" trout, that give up immediately,
as
they know that this is the best policy, considering that they are going
to
be released anyway.

Is this sarcasm?


No.

TL
MC

"Steve_sullivan" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Wolfgang" wrote:


"Steve_sullivan" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Jarmo Hurri wrote:

In my book a creek with a width of 5 meters is already quite a
river.

A 15 foot wide stream is a very small creek for the US.

Purest horse****. Many many thousands of miles of trout stream in the
U.S.
are less than fifteen feet across. We've got a couple thousand miles of
such water here in Wisconsin alone.

You are right, I meant in california.

Missouri is a very strange place. Rivers there start from a hole in the
ground and immediately flow thirty feet wide. Aside from disconcerting (and
presumably rare) oddities like that, I should think that streams
everywhere....even in Texas....start small. Not so in California?

I think one could make a good case for the assertion that fifteen feet is
smaller than most fly fishers prefer. After all, the vast majority of
nationally or internationally famous trout waters in the U.S., the ones that
attract large numbers of people from far away, are considerably bigger....at
least in their most popular stretches. And, of course, many fly fishers
never discover (or, perhaps, learn to appreciate) the unique pleasures of
small stream fishing. But, given that virtually all of those popular large
waters start much smaller, that many other productive streams never get any
bigger and, especially, that there are tens (and perhaps hundreds) of
thousands of miles of fishable water considerably LESS than fifteen feet
wide, calling something fifteen feet across "very small" is not only highly
subjective but also highly misleading.

Wolfgang

"Wolfgang" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
SNIP
bigger and, especially, that there are tens (and perhaps hundreds) of
thousands of miles of fishable water considerably LESS than fifteen feet
wide, calling something fifteen feet across "very small" is not only
highly
subjective but also highly misleading.

Wolfgang

Indeed. Some of the streams I used to fish were less than three feet across!
Most people are amazed to discover that such a stream can hold such
excellent fish. Which is one reason why they rarely even try to fish them,
and also why the places have so many good fish!

This can be very challenging and exciting fishing. As a matter of fact, I
would prefer to take such fishing, as opposed to fishing a big open river,
any day!

TL
MC

Steve_sullivan wrote:

In article ,
Jarmo Hurri wrote:


In my book a creek with a width of 5 meters is already quite a river.


A 15 foot wide stream is a very small creek for the US. A creek can be
considered small and be 50 feet wide.


I haven't fished any place where a 50 foot wide creek would be
considered "very small." Many of Colorado's RIVERS are less than 50 feet
across in most places.

Then there's our screwy nomenclature. Waters named creeks and streams
can be bigger than those named rivers.

Willi

"Mike Connor" wrote in message
This can be very challenging and exciting fishing. As a matter of fact, I
would prefer to take such fishing, as opposed to fishing a big open river,
any day!

I'm in agreement here. In remembering the trips that brought me the most
enjoyment, the top of the list is always a few little creeks, small fish,
and short casts. In no particular order, Matt McCray's local creek near
Scranton was a blast, Tom Littleton's local trickle is a nifty little
stream, a creek or two down in the Smokies, Big Hunting Creek here in MD,
and another small creek around Coburn PA have been loads of fun. Heck, even
the major trout stream in this area, the Gunpowder probably isn't 15 feet
wide in most places. Big fish & big rivers have their place, I suppose,
but I do like the small waters.

Joe F.

It's a good idea to practice the casts if you can

Stephen BTW - be careful with the bow and arrow ...

I'm not sure if I understood all of your tips, but I will surely find
out soon if a need new furniture or stiches. :-)

--
Jarmo Hurri

Commercial email countermeasures included in header email
address. Remove all garbage from header email address when replying,
or just use .

Wolfgang As far as casting is concerned, small streams are inherently
Wolfgang more challenging than big ones. You won't find much
Wolfgang agreement on a single best rod length or line rating,
Wolfgang largely because of the diverse nature of the problems such
Wolfgang streams present and the predilections of those who fish
Wolfgang them.

Agreed. But that does not reduce the motivation to find the best
possible rod, given the fisherman, the environment, fish etc. The
fisherman still has to select some rod. When trying to do that,
opinions and experiences of others may be of help.

Also, some people thought that the lightest lines do not roll cast
very well.

Wolfgang It ain't the fiddlestick that makes the music; it's the
Wolfgang fiddler. Lines do not roll cast....people do. Some do it
Wolfgang better than others.

I don't agree - or disagree - with the limitations of the lighter
weights, but in theory there might be a relationship there. At the one
extreme is roll casting with just the backing.

--
Jarmo Hurri

Commercial email countermeasures included in header email
address. Remove all garbage from header email address when replying,
or just use .

In the last 5 years or so, I've been fishing a lot of smaller, overgrown
waters. By smaller waters, I mean from something where you have a foot
on each bank to something on the order of a few meters. By overgrown,
I mean stuff so thick that if you have to leave the water to go around
a deep pool, the amount of travel until you make it back to the water
may be several hundred meters, to fairly open stuff where open sky can
be seen from the middle of the stream.

For the really nasty overgrowth, I have a 4 wt. 6'6" St. Croix Avid that
I built about 4 years ago (and rebuilt last year after falling while it
was wrapped up in a tree) that works pretty well. It loads well for
roll casting and is short enough to get away with regular casts in a
lot of cases. There were some streams that I was getting into on the
less overgrown variety that had pools that were beyond the casting range
of this rod so I built a 4 wt. 7'6" Sage XP series rod last year for
these streams. This rod has rapidly taken its place as my favorite rod
and is used for everything except for big water and really brushy streams
where I still use the 6'6". The amount of undergrowth determines the
length of leaders. On the brushiest stuff, I tend to use 4' leaders
in 4x or 5x. If longer leaders and be used, I use 7.5' leaders from
4x to 8x, normally defaulting to 6x.

This type of fishing can be really challenging and a lot of fun (except
when one's fishing buddy leads one into the overgrown of the first type
where the amount of time where one has a fly on the water approaches
zero ...).

__________________________________________________ ______________________
Craig A. Gullixson
Instrument Engineer INTERNET:
National Solar Observatory/Sac. Peak PHONE: (505) 434-7065
Sunspot, NM 88349 USA FAX: (505) 434-7029

"Jarmo Hurri" wrote in message
...

Wolfgang As far as casting is concerned, small streams are inherently
Wolfgang more challenging than big ones. You won't find much
Wolfgang agreement on a single best rod length or line rating,
Wolfgang largely because of the diverse nature of the problems such
Wolfgang streams present and the predilections of those who fish
Wolfgang them.

Agreed. But that does not reduce the motivation to find the best
possible rod, given the fisherman, the environment, fish etc. The
fisherman still has to select some rod. When trying to do that,
opinions and experiences of others may be of help.

Also, some people thought that the lightest lines do not roll cast
very well.

Wolfgang It ain't the fiddlestick that makes the music; it's the
Wolfgang fiddler. Lines do not roll cast....people do. Some do it
Wolfgang better than others.

I don't agree - or disagree - with the limitations of the lighter
weights, but in theory there might be a relationship there. At the one
extreme is roll casting with just the backing.

The motivation is common enough to be easily understandable. It is also,
ultimately, futile. The musical metaphor I used is also common, and it is
instructive. Will an Amati or a Guarnari or a Stadivarius produce finer
music than a Yamaha? Yes, of course, but only in the right hands. Most of
us will make no more or less horrible a noise on one than on the other.
More importantly, none of the great masters began by asking which instrument
was best suited to making great music or even the greatest example of a
particular piece of music. And, it will come as no surprise that the
masters make great music on any adequate instrument. If you are a Perlman,
I apologize.....I didn't know to whom I was speaking. If not, I suggest
that playing will serve you better than soliciting the opinions of the
orchestra, any member of which will express a preference, to be sure, but
none of them will ever make great music.

I've fished with many people who were well versed in the fine points of all
the technical aspects of fly fishing. Some of them are very good at it.
But, in no case have I ever had reason to believe their expertise was
grounded in their equipment. The rest are pretty good at blowing smoke up
each others' asses because they have a willing audience.

It's your music. I would suggest you listen to the muse.....not the
metronome.

Wolfgang