Targeting bedding fish...yea or nay?

Some background on me before I make my point. I am an avid bass fisherman
and outdoorsman. I have no room for PETA and their likes. I am conservative
and usually vote republican. This being said, when I see the pros sight
fishing and targeting bedding bass it just seems to not sit well with me.
Aren't they supposed to be promoting the responsible sport of bass fishing
and fish conservation? Is this any different than harassing a deer that is
preparing to give birth, or a duck that is tending to her young? In most of
the Northeast the bass season is closed during the spawn. Its closed for a
reason. To allow for the replenishment of the species. Even though the
tournament bass are being released alive, it cannot be good for their
reproduction. Especially when the release point could be as far as 50 miles
from where they were pulled from their beds. My good friend fishes the Elite
Tour and basically agrees with me, but because of the current system has no
alternative than to go along with the program.

I would like to know how other bass fisherman feel about targeting spawning
bass? Oh God, please tell me I'm not becoming a liberal!

Mike (PA)

On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 20:04:37 -0500, "Mike" sent into
the ether:

Some background on me before I make my point. I am an avid bass fisherman
and outdoorsman. I have no room for PETA and their likes. I am conservative
and usually vote republican. This being said, when I see the pros sight
fishing and targeting bedding bass it just seems to not sit well with me.
Aren't they supposed to be promoting the responsible sport of bass fishing
and fish conservation? Is this any different than harassing a deer that is
preparing to give birth, or a duck that is tending to her young? In most of
the Northeast the bass season is closed during the spawn. Its closed for a
reason. To allow for the replenishment of the species. Even though the
tournament bass are being released alive, it cannot be good for their
reproduction. Especially when the release point could be as far as 50 miles
from where they were pulled from their beds. My good friend fishes the Elite
Tour and basically agrees with me, but because of the current system has no
alternative than to go along with the program.

I would like to know how other bass fisherman feel about targeting spawning
bass? Oh God, please tell me I'm not becoming a liberal!

Mike (PA)


Mike,
Maybe you should ask why the Bass season is open during the spawn
where this is happening.

I am far from being an expert on this but, as I understand it where
the season is open during the spawn experts at the state level do not
think it is going to hurt the Bass population in their state.
I am sure that statement will garner lots of opinions :}

I live in Wisconsin where the season is closed for most of the
spawning season and I do not intentionally fish beds.



I've learned that I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy it! (That is what my X-wife told me)

Remove the x for e-mail reply
www.outdoorfrontiers.com
www.SecretWeaponLures.com
A proud charter member of "PETAF", People for Eating Tasty Animals and Fish!!!

Having fished for bass for most of my 60-odd years, I have found bass
on a bed will return to the bed, as long as they are released quickly,
and close to the vicinity of where they are caught. The key word is
quickly, as in minutes, to prevent the scavenger fish the bedding bass
is always chasing, from gorging on the eggs. These scavenger fish,
usually immature bluegills, and other sunfish, is a constant threat,
and she will chase them out of the bed, thus giving away her location.
Barbless hooks are a big help also. When tournaments are held, an
observer boat, or one in the bass angler's boat, would be the closest
we can come to assuring bass are NOT caught from beds. Also if the
tournament promoters would observe an overall tournament ban on bedding
times for a paticular lake, I think would cut down on this too.
If your friend would make his wishes known, I am sure other fishermen
in the tour would support him.
....jj

Mike wrote:
...
I would like to know how other bass fisherman feel about targeting spawning
bass? Oh God, please tell me I'm not becoming a liberal!

I don't have a problem with other fishermen taking fish
by any legal means they prefer, including fishing over
the spawning beds. Having said that, I don't fish over
spawning beds myself.

--
Ken Fortenberry

Mike wrote:
Some background on me before I make my point. I am an avid bass fisherman
and outdoorsman. I have no room for PETA and their likes. I am conservative
and usually vote republican. This being said, when I see the pros sight
fishing and targeting bedding bass it just seems to not sit well with me.
Aren't they supposed to be promoting the responsible sport of bass fishing
and fish conservation? Is this any different than harassing a deer that is
preparing to give birth, or a duck that is tending to her young? In most of
the Northeast the bass season is closed during the spawn. Its closed for a
reason. To allow for the replenishment of the species. Even though the
tournament bass are being released alive, it cannot be good for their
reproduction. Especially when the release point could be as far as 50 miles
from where they were pulled from their beds. My good friend fishes the Elite
Tour and basically agrees with me, but because of the current system has no
alternative than to go along with the program.

I would like to know how other bass fisherman feel about targeting spawning
bass? Oh God, please tell me I'm not becoming a liberal!

Mike (PA)


I'm not a pro bass fisherman but I do fish at least once a week in the
Everglades. I agree with you. We need to leave the mommas alone to raise
her little ones. I always avoid the beds. Chuck B.

Dan, danl, danny boy, Redbeard, actually Greybeard now wrote:

On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 20:04:37 -0500, "Mike" sent into
the ether:


Some background on me before I make my point. I am an avid bass fisherman
and outdoorsman. I have no room for PETA and their likes. I am conservative
and usually vote republican. This being said, when I see the pros sight
fishing and targeting bedding bass it just seems to not sit well with me.
Aren't they supposed to be promoting the responsible sport of bass fishing
and fish conservation? Is this any different than harassing a deer that is
preparing to give birth, or a duck that is tending to her young? In most of
the Northeast the bass season is closed during the spawn. Its closed for a
reason. To allow for the replenishment of the species. Even though the
tournament bass are being released alive, it cannot be good for their
reproduction. Especially when the release point could be as far as 50 miles

from where they were pulled from their beds. My good friend fishes the Elite

Tour and basically agrees with me, but because of the current system has no
alternative than to go along with the program.

I would like to know how other bass fisherman feel about targeting spawning
bass? Oh God, please tell me I'm not becoming a liberal!

Mike (PA)



Mike,
Maybe you should ask why the Bass season is open during the spawn
where this is happening.

I am far from being an expert on this but, as I understand it where
the season is open during the spawn experts at the state level do not
think it is going to hurt the Bass population in their state.
I am sure that statement will garner lots of opinions :}

I live in Wisconsin where the season is closed for most of the
spawning season and I do not intentionally fish beds.



I've learned that I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy it! (That is what my X-wife told me)

Remove the x for e-mail reply
www.outdoorfrontiers.com
www.SecretWeaponLures.com
A proud charter member of "PETAF", People for Eating Tasty Animals and Fish!!!
Follow the money. Bass tournaments bring a lot of money to the area. All
politicians like money and probably don't care about a few bass.

"Mike" asked:

I would like to know how other bass fisherman feel about targeting spawning
bass?

Last August in Southwest Washington for about 2 hours on two consecutive
days and two years ago in Central Oregon also in August for around 3 hours
on 3 consecutive days I was blessed to watch the western bluegill on their
nests.


The 8" round nest was always dominated or owned by the big male, about 7"
long by 4" wide. There were two different sized females. Big females were
about 10" long and 8" wide and little females were the same size as the big
males. Lurking on the outer edge of the nest was tiny bluegills no longer
than 4 inches and 3" wide. Originally I thought these little gills were
babies or young from the previous year.



It had been a long time since I had watched bass or bluegill on their nest.
Here the big male gill patrolled the edges always watching. A little
bluegill would swim in, grab an egg and the big male chased him and tried to
bite him. When the bluegill left the nest, crayfish, dragon fly nymphs and
damsel fly nymphs sometimes rushed in and tried to make off with an egg in
their mouth. The poor male was harassed day and night by all these
creatures trying to get his brood. With all the natural egg predation, it
is surprising that enough got big enough for bass food and the gills could
keep their species going!



Something unusual happened during the spawning. When big or little females
approached, the big males nuzzled them then they started spawning. Often
the big male followed spraying milt over the eggs. But sometimes two little
bluegills would race in and one would grab an egg and the big male would
halt his milt spraying and chase the little egg sucking gill - the other
gill would spray milt on the eggs! The tiny bluegills are sexually mature
at 3-4 inches!



It was fun to show two teenagers what was going on at the bedding gills.
They learned they could cast just about anything and the males would ignore
the boys' offerings. The boys learned that it was not too sporting or fun
to snag or foul-hook the bedding males. It's been years since I've watched
bass that much on their nests but there are lots of predators after their
eggs also. When a male bluegill is removed from the nest it does not take
long, maybe minutes, for his nest to be decimated. Watching this little
nesting bluegill just cemented my decision not to cast over bedding bass
either. Hope the boys learned also.



Good luck,

John

"Mike" wrote in message
...
Some background on me before I make my point. I am an avid bass fisherman
and outdoorsman. I have no room for PETA and their likes. I am
conservative and usually vote republican. This being said, when I see the
pros sight fishing and targeting bedding bass it just seems to not sit
well with me. Aren't they supposed to be promoting the responsible sport
of bass fishing and fish conservation? Is this any different than
harassing a deer that is preparing to give birth, or a duck that is
tending to her young? In most of the Northeast the bass season is closed
during the spawn. Its closed for a reason. To allow for the replenishment
of the species. Even though the tournament bass are being released alive,
it cannot be good for their reproduction. Especially when the release
point could be as far as 50 miles from where they were pulled from their
beds. My good friend fishes the Elite Tour and basically agrees with me,
but because of the current system has no alternative than to go along with
the program.

I would like to know how other bass fisherman feel about targeting
spawning bass? Oh God, please tell me I'm not becoming a liberal!

Mike,

I just saw something today on televison when they were interviewing a
fisheries biologist. His claim was that a female bass has 4,000 eggs per
pound of body weight, so a 4 pound largemouth would lay 16,000 eggs. He
went on to say that 1% of these eggs would hatch and survive to become an
adult bass. So that's 160 new bass from one fish hatching.

He went on to say that the bass fisheries in the southern part of their
range could withstand bed fishing due to multiple spawns and a longer
growing season, so the bass grow faster. He did go on to say that the bass
fisheries in the northernmost regions could be harmed by bed fishing during
tournaments, but not likely by recreational anglers, providing the fish
wasn't overly stressed and immediately returned to the water.

Draw your own conclusions from this information. I enjoy bed fishing,
finding it to be fun, but the fish always goes back after a quick picture.
--
Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers
http://www.outdoorfrontiers.com
G & S Guide Service and Custom Rods
http://www.herefishyfishy.com

Targeting bedding fish...yea or nay?

Group: rec.outdoors.fishing.bass Date: Fri, Mar 31, 2006, 8:04pm (CST+1)
From: (Mike)
Some background on me before I make my point. I am an avid bass
fisherman and outdoorsman. I have no room for PETA and their likes. I am
conservative and usually vote republican. This being said, when I see
the pros sight fishing and targeting bedding bass it just seems to not
sit well with me. Aren't they supposed to be promoting the responsible
sport of bass fishing and fish conservation? Is this any different than
harassing a deer that is preparing to give birth, or a duck that is
tending to her young? In most of the Northeast the bass season is closed
during the spawn. Its closed for a reason. To allow for the
replenishment of the species. Even though the tournament bass are being
released alive, it cannot be good for their reproduction. Especially
when the release point could be as far as 50 miles from where they were
pulled from their beds. My good friend fishes the Elite Tour and
basically agrees with me, but because of the current system has no
alternative than to go along with the program.
I would like to know how other bass fisherman feel about targeting
spawning bass? * Oh God, please tell me I'm not becoming a liberal!
Mike (PA)
========
Bed fishing is a big deal in southern California, they have been doing
it for years. The bass population has not suffered, and in fact, the
bass have thrived....and more than a few have gotten "huge" . I think
it is a matter of lake management, and what is best for the locale.
After that, as long as it's legal, I believe it's up to the individual
angler to choose whether to fish beds or not fish them. I don't have any
problem with it at all.

John K

"Mike" wrote in message
...
snip
I would like to know how other bass fisherman feel about targeting spawning
bass?

Mike (PA)
-------------------
Mike, I see absolutely no problem removing some spawning bass from beds, at
least in the southern tier states. The population of bass is not
significantly affected.

Decades before PETA reared its tofu-eating head, ethical treatment of
animals was understood and practiced in a more responsible way by
conscientious land owners and sportsmen who understood and practiced the
basic principles of sound wildlife management.



In the late 1800's, my grandfather hunted the Tennessee highlands and fished
the Cumberland, Elk, and Tennessee Rivers that meandered through the
bottomland. He taught his outdoor ethic to his sons, who passed it down to
us -- practices like leaving enough quail to replenish each covey from year
to year and taking only enough game to meet our need. If we harvest only a
certain number of animals from a population, then enough survive each year
to replenish the numbers. Nature is extravagant when it comes to
reproduction for most species, and a generous allowance is provided for
attrition though predation (including hunting and fishing), accidents,
vicissitudes of weather, and disease.



For example, each mating pair of quail produces 14 chicks. Of them, only
half survive until they take flight. The rest made tasty snacks for foxes,
bobcats, owls, and hawks. That brings the number of survivors to nine. Over
the next nine months, seven more will shuck their mortal coil. That leaves
two, on average, at the end of one year's cycle.



If more were to survive year after year, then the world would eventually be
knee-deep in quail poop. The same would be true, only messier, if more than
two rabbits or mice survived each year to replace the breeding pair.



When it comes to bass, where hundreds of fry are produced on each bed, only
one or two need survive an entire year in order for bass populations to
remain constant. If a bedding bass is removed and all its eggs or fry are
eaten, then there are plenty of other fry from other beds. chances are very
good that enough will survive to the next year to keep things going at the
same level.



The argument that it's particularly bad to take the biggest, trophy-size
bass from beds is somehow worse doesn't hold water. Those bass have already
spawned many times, and their genetic code is now shared by many generations
of bass by the time they attain trophy proportions. If you take big mama out
of the lake, never fear... the code survives.



Female bass usually nest twice in a single season, and sometimes even three
times. So if a female is removed from the nest and later released, it is
likely that it has already reproduced or may again later.



Fisheries biologists have a pretty good handle on bass populations and
survival and growth rates, and I think we should rely on them to set policy
that ensures the health of populations and the ecosystem. That includes
slots, size and creel limits, off-limit areas, and open seasons. It's
cynical to believe, as Chuck B. suggested, that fishing seasons are
established by politicians who are trying to attract lucrative tournament
events.



A word of caution. It's possible that many anglers' aversion to taking
bedding bass has less to do with sound biology, and more to do with the
"Bambi" syndrome. We have all experienced loss of a significant human
relationship, or at least recall our own separation anxiety, and we dislike
being cast in the role of the bad guy who makes orphans of the defenseless,
little baby bass... exposing them to the depredations of marauding bream.
Bass, themselves, suffer no such scruples. Once released from guard duty, an
adult bass will eagerly add bass fry in the menu when it can get them. Let's
establish our positions on sound scientific principles, not misdirected
emotions. If we anglers treat bass by the same standards that we apply to
humans, then we're making PETA's case for them.