The time has come, the walrus said,

On Mar 24, 1:11*am, Giles wrote:

I am also dubious about the alternative theory for a couple of
reasons. *In the first place, despite the fact that I was unfmaliar
with the term, I've seen the "barber chair" phenomenon on a number of
occasions.....the **** moves plenty fast enough to kill. *Second, The
illustration at the site provided by dr. narcolepsy:

http://www.forestryforum.com/images/...arberchair.jpg

is all too clear, and I assume that on a site dedicated to forestry
and inhabited by folks who presumably know what they are doing, an
illustration showing a rare exception to the rule of what might happen
would be labelled as such. *Third, the ever faithful and useful
Occam's razor. *There appears to be no justification for the
complicating factor of a tree rising slowly past the sawyer who then
sits immobile while watching it fall on his head. *Finally, what I
will take the liberty of calling the classic scenario accounts
beautifully for Karl's position, lying flat on his back with his feet
near the stump and the massive injury to the left side of his face,
given that he was obviously cutting in the usual posture.....the
expected direction of fall to the left of the sawyer, as evidenced by
the saw, whose blade was still in the cut on the stump when I
arrived. *Had the tree in fact caught him on the way
down.....certainly not impossible, despite the apparent evidence to
the contrary.....it seems unlikely that he would have been lying in
the position and posture in which he was found.


I consulted with a buddy back home who is a forester, and he said the
danger with Barber Chairs is basically all of the above: the butt end
can clip you on the way up, the tree can spin unpredictably when it is
tilting, the trees around you can get involved in a less than
desireable manner, it ruins a lot of board feet of lumber, and the
entire thing can drop on your head. You basically lose control of a
very large tree that is falling down at your feet.

He said the protocol for dealing with them is NOT to run away
posthaste, but to keep an eye on it as you escape on your preplanned
escape route in case it comes your way, as you are in the potential of
immediate peril from multiple potentialities. In fact, if you get one
that is hung up on the hinge, you're supposed to either get a skidder
to pull it down, or post the area with warning signs and get out.

Not sure exactly what scenario played out with your acquaintance, but
if he was an experienced woodcutter, it's possible that he watched it
rise up with the intent of getting out of the way if it fell his way,
and misjudged. I think the illustration on the website was just one
possible scenario rather than the most common one. I know getting hit
with the butt end of the log is one of the biggest fears with fellers,
and they take great pains not to be in alignment with the tree as it
falls. That illustration probably just combines both those fears. But
that's just my opinion, and worth less than you paid for it.

--riverman

On Mar 24, 7:09*am, Myron Buck wrote:
On Mar 24, 1:11*am, Giles wrote:







I am also dubious about the alternative theory for a couple of
reasons. *In the first place, despite the fact that I was unfmaliar
with the term, I've seen the "barber chair" phenomenon on a number of
occasions.....the **** moves plenty fast enough to kill. *Second, The
illustration at the site provided by dr. narcolepsy:

http://www.forestryforum.com/images/...arberchair.jpg

is all too clear, and I assume that on a site dedicated to forestry
and inhabited by folks who presumably know what they are doing, an
illustration showing a rare exception to the rule of what might happen
would be labelled as such. *Third, the ever faithful and useful
Occam's razor. *There appears to be no justification for the
complicating factor of a tree rising slowly past the sawyer who then
sits immobile while watching it fall on his head. *Finally, what I
will take the liberty of calling the classic scenario accounts
beautifully for Karl's position, lying flat on his back with his feet
near the stump and the massive injury to the left side of his face,
given that he was obviously cutting in the usual posture.....the
expected direction of fall to the left of the sawyer, as evidenced by
the saw, whose blade was still in the cut on the stump when I
arrived. *Had the tree in fact caught him on the way
down.....certainly not impossible, despite the apparent evidence to
the contrary.....it seems unlikely that he would have been lying in
the position and posture in which he was found.

I consulted with a buddy back home who is a forester, and he said the
danger with Barber Chairs is basically all of the above: the butt end
can clip you on the way up, the tree can spin unpredictably when it is
tilting, the trees around you can get involved in a less than
desireable manner, it ruins a lot of board feet of lumber, and the
entire thing can drop on your head. You basically lose control of a
very large tree that is falling down at your feet.

He said the protocol for dealing with them is NOT to run away
posthaste, but to keep an eye on it as you escape on your preplanned
escape route in case it comes your way, as you are in the potential of
immediate peril from multiple potentialities. In fact, if you get one
that is hung up on the hinge, you're supposed to either get a skidder
to pull it down, or post the area with warning signs and get out.

Not sure exactly what scenario played out with your acquaintance, but
if he was an experienced woodcutter, it's possible that he watched it
rise up with the intent of getting out of the way if it fell his way,
and misjudged. I think the illustration on the website was just one
possible scenario rather than the most common one. I know getting hit
with the butt end of the log is one of the biggest fears with fellers,
and they take great pains not to be in alignment with the tree as it
falls. That illustration probably just combines both those fears. But
that's just my opinion, and worth less than you paid for it.

--riverman

Your opinions are worth a lot more than I paid for them. They make
perfect sense.

They say it's an ill wind as blows no one good. Well, this one
started out ill.....and it ain't done yet.

But some good has come of it after all. I feel confident that I'm not
to only one here who has, as a result, learned some things that
somebody or other should have sat him down and told him about in no
uncertain terms and in fine detail before he first pranced into the
woods wielding a chainsaw.

That said, and while freely admitting the validity of other described
possible scenarios, I still remain firmly wedded to my original
hypothesis. Nothing else fits the facts on the ground as closely and
logically.

Karl was a man of firm and liberally distributed opinions. I find
myself wondering what he would have thought looking down on someone
else.

giles

On Mar 24, 6:55*pm, Giles wrote:
On Mar 24, 7:09*am, Myron Buck wrote:









On Mar 24, 1:11*am, Giles wrote:

I am also dubious about the alternative theory for a couple of
reasons. *In the first place, despite the fact that I was unfmaliar
with the term, I've seen the "barber chair" phenomenon on a number of
occasions.....the **** moves plenty fast enough to kill. *Second, The
illustration at the site provided by dr. narcolepsy:

http://www.forestryforum.com/images/...arberchair.jpg

is all too clear, and I assume that on a site dedicated to forestry
and inhabited by folks who presumably know what they are doing, an
illustration showing a rare exception to the rule of what might happen
would be labelled as such. *Third, the ever faithful and useful
Occam's razor. *There appears to be no justification for the
complicating factor of a tree rising slowly past the sawyer who then
sits immobile while watching it fall on his head. *Finally, what I
will take the liberty of calling the classic scenario accounts
beautifully for Karl's position, lying flat on his back with his feet
near the stump and the massive injury to the left side of his face,
given that he was obviously cutting in the usual posture.....the
expected direction of fall to the left of the sawyer, as evidenced by
the saw, whose blade was still in the cut on the stump when I
arrived. *Had the tree in fact caught him on the way
down.....certainly not impossible, despite the apparent evidence to
the contrary.....it seems unlikely that he would have been lying in
the position and posture in which he was found.

I consulted with a buddy back home who is a forester, and he said the
danger with Barber Chairs is basically all of the above: the butt end
can clip you on the way up, the tree can spin unpredictably when it is
tilting, the trees around you can get involved in a less than
desireable manner, it ruins a lot of board feet of lumber, and the
entire thing can drop on your head. You basically lose control of a
very large tree that is falling down at your feet.

He said the protocol for dealing with them is NOT to run away
posthaste, but to keep an eye on it as you escape on your preplanned
escape route in case it comes your way, as you are in the potential of
immediate peril from multiple potentialities. In fact, if you get one
that is hung up on the hinge, you're supposed to either get a skidder
to pull it down, or post the area with warning signs and get out.

Not sure exactly what scenario played out with your acquaintance, but
if he was an experienced woodcutter, it's possible that he watched it
rise up with the intent of getting out of the way if it fell his way,
and misjudged. I think the illustration on the website was just one
possible scenario rather than the most common one. I know getting hit
with the butt end of the log is one of the biggest fears with fellers,
and they take great pains not to be in alignment with the tree as it
falls. That illustration probably just combines both those fears. But
that's just my opinion, and worth less than you paid for it.

--riverman

Your opinions are worth a lot more than I paid for them. *They make
perfect sense.

They say it's an ill wind as blows no one good. *Well, this one
started out ill.....and it ain't done yet.

But some good has come of it after all. *I feel confident that I'm not
to only one here who has, as a result, learned some things that
somebody or other should have sat him down and told him about in no
uncertain terms and in fine detail before he first pranced into the
woods wielding a chainsaw.

That said, and while freely admitting the validity of other described
possible scenarios, I still remain firmly wedded to my original
hypothesis. *Nothing else fits the facts on the ground as closely and
logically.

Karl was a man of firm and liberally distributed opinions. *I find
myself wondering what he would have thought looking down on someone
else.

giles

I've learned something too. Neighbor asked me to help him fell some
trees. Yeah, don't think so. With my history, well, you know...
Frank Reid

On Mon, 28 Mar 2011 21:22:50 -0400, D. LaCourse
wrote:

On 2011-03-28 20:44:11 -0400, Giles said:

On Mar 27, 7:34*pm, D. LaCourse wrote:
On 2011-03-26 23:14:38 -0400, Frank Reid 2010 said:

As someone who has lost so many people in his life, you "wishing" for
the death of someone, a friend, is so reprehensible as to be deeply
disturbing. *Why would anyone with a shred of decency do that?
Frank Reid

There are at least two folks on roff who have wished me dead. *Perhaps
you can ask Wolfgang, Frank. *And, why *would* anyone with a shred of
dcency do that?

Frank doesn't need to ask Wolfgang. Wolfgang hasn't the foggiest
notion of who either of them are. Doesn't much care either.

Don't forget my grandchildren either. *It was hoped that they too would
soon die.

And you'll get your wish. What are you bitching about?

But, I forgive.

You're a liar.....


Just trying to correct the book keeping around these parts.

.....and a marginally literate evil pig.

Still, it must be comforting to know that you WILL eventually do one
thing to make the world a better place, ainna?

Dave
(Know anything about commercially made peacock herl ropes?)

You ever given any consideration to just paying someone to fish for
you?

giles
who, truth be told, doesn' really much give a rat's ass about how his
dependents spend his money......but thinks that they should, at least
once in their lives, give the matter a bit of thought.


Goodness, it is easy to anger you. I don't even try and you get angry.

Contrary to what you believe, Wolfgang, I do not hate you, and I have
forgiven you for any wrong you have done me. Sort of the same way with
Gehrke. I'm happy that just weeks before he died I told him I was not
angry with him. But you hate me, dontcha? Sorry about that. I hope
it doesn't consume you. When I die I will die with a clean conscience
as far as Wolfgang is concerned.

Paying someone to fish for me? Hahahaha. No, I have too much fun
exploring different parts of this great world. And you are jealous of
that, aren't you? Either jealous or envious. Hard to tell, but it
eats at you, consumes your very being, not unlike an incurable cancer.
You feel the same way about Steve. He, like I, has the disposable
income to do so, and you just can not stomach that, can you? d;o)
Franz Schubert had his syphilis and you have your hate and envy.

Like Steve said, get well, Wolfgang.

Dave


Who gives a flying f*** if he gets well or if he falls off a bridge
Since removal is not a legal option - as yet
Killfiling the creep is a viable option

Meow!
Fritz thw CAT

On Mar 29, 12:09*am, wrote:


Who gives a flying f*** if he gets well or if he falls off a bridge

We'll take the liberty of assuming that's a question.....and a
rhetorical one at that.

Since removal is not a legal option - as yet

Well, it's just a danged shame that a niggling detail like legality
stands between a real man and his aching desire to do the right thing,
ainna?

Killfiling the creep is a viable option

fleabag raises a valid point here, pig. I mean, just look at how
wonderfully a killfile has worked for him in avoiding embroilment in
these tawdry little contretemps.

Meow!
Fritz thw CAT

moron.

g