OT-E: Leave it to the Brits.

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 01:31:56 GMT, "Tom Littleton" Which ones? But
regardless of where GW went, applied, etc., your
response is non sequitur. Law school is more "work" than "intellect."

UTexas law school, to name one that's in the public record.......and no,
their very firm rejection letter does not negate my premise.
Tom

On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 09:41:52 GMT, "Tom Littleton"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 01:31:56 GMT, "Tom Littleton" Which ones? But
regardless of where GW went, applied, etc., your
response is non sequitur. Law school is more "work" than "intellect."

UTexas law school, to name one that's in the public record.......and no,
their very firm rejection letter does not negate my premise.
Tom

I had forgotten about UT Law, and that's only one school, not schools,
but your premise is negated regardless. Being rejected by _one_ law
school is meaningless - I know practicing lawyers that were rejected by
several schools and I know Harvard grads that were rejected by other
schools. And FWIW, UT Law is not "a far lesser school" - it is right up
there with Harvard among the top 10 or so law schools in the US, and
although the ABA doesn't "rank" schools, the data it provides shows it
to be a top school.

TC,
R

On Oct 10, 2:27*am, "Bob Weinberger" wrote:
wrote in message

...
On Oct 9, 4:55 pm, wrote:
snip
If you want to change things for the better, then good politics, like
charity, begins at home. Bitching about something will not change it,
it merely ****es people off.

Please heed your own advice.

Bob Weinberger

** Posted fromhttp://www.teranews.com**

I did not give any advice, nor would I give any here, even if I was
asked for it, I merely stated the obvious.

On Oct 10, 6:48*pm, wrote:
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Tom

I had forgotten about UT Law, and that's only one school, not schools,
but your premise is negated regardless. *Being rejected by _one_ law
school is meaningless.....


Yeah, but what does it take to get rejected by a Law School when your
dad is the past long-serving Chairman of the State Republican party, a
current US Congressman, your Grandaddy had been a US Senator, and you
had just gone to an elite prestigious New England private school and
had just graduated from Yale?

That was no small rejection. I would LOVE to know the conversation
that took place in the Admissions Office that day....

--riverman

On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 05:06:06 -0700 (PDT), riverman
wrote:

On Oct 10, 6:48*pm, wrote:
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Tom

I had forgotten about UT Law, and that's only one school, not schools,
but your premise is negated regardless. *Being rejected by _one_ law
school is meaningless.....


Yeah, but what does it take to get rejected by a Law School when your
dad is the past long-serving Chairman of the State Republican party, a
current US Congressman, your Grandaddy had been a US Senator, and you
had just gone to an elite prestigious New England private school and
had just graduated from Yale?

An "average" LSAT score combined with an "average" college transcript.
And there are lots of folks with a lot more pull at UT than the Bushes
had at that time whose "average" kids didn't get into UT Law. In fact,
I know of one who had a similar record to Bush, didn't get into UT Law,
went to St. Mary's, graduated, passed the bar, and not only do I
consider him to be a better-than-average lawyer, he considered so by a
fair portion of his Bar.

And FWIW, Bush scored a 1200 or so on his SAT, and had a decent prep
record, so academically, he could have gotten into a fair number of
undergrad schools regardless of who his family might be. Heck, Yale
turned down Bill Bradley, who had a lower SAT than Bush, and Kerry's SAT
was lower than Bush's, but he got in (a legacy, too). I have no idea if
they are correct, but seemingly objective analysis of the publicly-known
Bush test results indicate that he is in the top 5 percent or so in
"intelligence."

That was no small rejection. I would LOVE to know the conversation
that took place in the Admissions Office that day....

I dunno...I suspect it was pretty routine, but ???

TC,
R

--riverman

wrote:
Illinois/Independent Precinct Organizations, 1997

and also, that
Columbia and Harvard isn't as impressive as Yale and Harvard...

HTH,
R


....if anyone else had written that tripe, you'd be all over them.
um...what were the grade points/honors earned??? i reckon you're saying
a c-student at yale is more impressive than a b-student at columbia, and
harvard law/law review prez, magna cum laude student is less impressive
than a ****wit mba-student at the same university? you're slipping in
your contrariness...

Here's a new brit contribution. For what it's worth, this one is an
article.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------


The chameleon: who is the real Sarah Palin?
A report on the Troopergate affair to be published today is expected to
throw light on to a politician known as a moral crusader but whose
values are questioned from right and left





When the man working for Frommer's, America's best-selling travel
guide, alighted on the small town of Wasilla in south-central Alaska,
he concluded glumly that the place should be condemned as "the worst
kind of suburban sprawl". To the European eye it would barely be a town
at all. Rather, it is a four-lane highway that clatters across the
magnificent, mountain-fringed Matanuska-Susitna valley, dumping seven
miles of strip-malls, petrol stations and supermarkets in its wake.

Wasilla is home to 9,780 people, hundreds of small businesses, a dozen
evangelical Christian churches, and a handful of gun stores. The
churches are places where many of the faithful see signs that judgment
day cannot be far away and where the infallibility of the Bible is
rarely, if ever, questioned. The gun stores are places where you can
pick up the new Ruger 10/22 carbine, the one that comes in bright pink
with a 10-round magazine - "perfect for your wife or daughter".

Famously, Wasilla is also the home town and launch pad for Sarah Palin,
John McCain's vice-presidential running mate. Palin is a woman for whom
many Republicans have high hopes, despite performances in early
television interviews that were so wobbly they have become YouTube
classics. She remains a politician who many in the party would like to
believe could be a future president.

Her selection six weeks ago saw a slew of stories about the former
beauty queen with the brilliant smile and the carefully styled
mom-in-a-hurry hairdo, who could drop a caribou at a thousand paces
before skinning it, butchering it, and hauling it home for the freezer.
In a country that regards the wilderness surrounding Wasilla as a last
bastion of rugged, can-do libertarianism, her story seemed to be a
potent, 21st-century update on America's central myth.

But Wasilla is no frontier town. A third of the town's workforce
commute to office jobs in Anchorage, 45 miles to the south. Many others
work in the endless strip malls. Palin may shoot, fish and ride a
snowmobile, but her neighbours are more accustomed to seeing her leap
into the 4x4 to drive to the local Starbucks. Palin's home town
represents, at most, the call of the semi-wild.

So if the image of McCain's running mate as a tough outdoorswoman is
part truth and partly a confection of her party's machine, what are we
to make of the rest of the package?

What will be revealed about her later today with the conclusion of the
investigation into the so-called Troopergate affair, in which she is
alleged to have abused her power as state governor by sacking the head
of the Alaskan state police after he refused to become involved in a
family feud?

Is Palin truly a warrior of the religious right, a woman who advocates
the teaching of creationism and who is opposed to abortion, even for
victims of rape and incest? Would she, as opponents claim, seek to ban
books from library shelves?

Who, in short, is Sarah Palin? And what on earth does she want?

Palin was born in February 1964 in another small town, Sandpoint,
Idaho, the third of four children of Chuck and Sally Heath.
Genealogists have traced her father's family tree as a far as John
Lothropp, a nonconformist minister from Beverley in Yorkshire, who
settled in Massachusetts in 1634 to escape persecution. If so, this
would make Palin a distant relation of George Bush.

The family moved to Alaska when Sarah was two months old after Chuck, a
primary school teacher, took up a post there. Accounts of her time at
Wasilla high school suggest a headstrong, slightly pushy, but popular
pupil: a girl who was determined to succeed on the sports field, and
who wanted to be noticed, who liked to be liked.

Her university days appear to have been considerably less happy. In
five years she flitted between as many different colleges, in Hawaii,
Idaho and Alaska, sometimes quitting after one term. It is unclear why
she was so unsettled. It is clear, however, that she was far from the
centre of attention at this time: after McCain named Palin as his
running mate, the Idaho Statesman newspaper tracked down 30 of her
former teachers and classmates at two colleges in the state. Only four
could remember who she was.

Returning to Wasilla in 1987 she worked as a sports reporter with her
local newspaper, the Mat-Su Valley Frontiersman, and as a correspondent
for an Alaskan television station. She showed little interest in
forging a lengthy career in journalism, instead marrying her high
school sweetheart, Todd Palin, a part Yup'ik Native Alaskan who works
as a technician with British Petroleum on the state's North Slope
oilfield. In 1989 the first of the couple's children was born and, in
keeping with the Alaskan fashion for unusual names, the boy was named
Track, because he arrived during the athletics season.

Since parading her five children, including Bristol, 17, who is
pregnant, and Trig, a six-month-old boy with Down's syndrome, at the
Republican national convention last month, Palin has been the subject
of bizarre internet rumours about her children's parentage, and reports
in the supermarket tabloids alleging an extramarital affair, which her
team dismissed as a "vicious lie". In Wasilla, people who know the
couple say their marriage appears genuinely to be strong.

During the early 90s, when Palin was raising her children, Wasilla and
the other small towns in the valley were undergoing rapid change as
they sucked in immigrants from that place known to Alaskans as
"Outside" - the rest of the US. And in common with other communities in
the US, the valley towns were riven by tension between secular liberals
on one hand and Christian traditionalists on the other, people who had
little interest in - and no hope of - reconciling their fundamental
disagreements over abortion, gay rights, gun control and censorship.

In Palmer, for instance, a town 20 minutes drive north-east of Wasilla,
there was a struggle for control of the hospital, one of the few in
Alaska where second trimester abortions were carried out. There were
demonstrations and court battles, and rumours that one gynaecologist
had taken to wearing a bulletproof vest beneath her jacket.

In Wasilla, the curator of the town's tiny museum, John Cooper, says he
received threats from people from a local evangelical church. "They
simply wanted to let me know that my political views, as a liberal, as
a progressive, were not welcome," he says.

This was the conflict into which Palin waded when she decided to stand
for election as mayor of Wasilla.

Palin had been a junior member of the town's council for four years,
and in 1996 decided to run against the popular mayor, John Stein.
Perhaps unusually for such a small-town affair, she won an endorsement
from the National Rifle Association and attracted the support of a
nationwide anti-abortion organisation that leafleted the town's voters.

In Palmer, the Rev Howard Bess, a left-leaning Baptist minister, is
convinced Palin was the candidate of a network of evangelist pastors
that met regularly in the valley in a conclave calling itself the
Ministers' Prayer Group. "Palin first came on the political scene in
the context of this conflict focused on the abortion issue," says Bess.
"You can't understand her without understanding the culture wars that
took place in the Mat-Su Valley in the 90s."

Laura Chase, who managed Palin's campaign, recalls her not as
doctrinaire but as seriously ambitious. "We were sitting at my kitchen
table at about 11 o'clock one night, talking about term times, and she
said: 'If I haven't moved on to higher things after two terms, I don't
deserve to be in politics.' I said: 'Sarah, you'll be governor in 10
years.' And she said: 'I don't want to be governor, I want to be
president.' I glanced up and she was looking down at a piece of paper,
she was on to the next thing we were doing. I just chalked it up to the
adrenaline of the campaign."

Today, people who loathe all that Palin says she stands for cannot help
admire her common touch. Bill Clinton says: "I come from Arkansas. I
get why she's hot out there, why she's doing well." Even in 1996, Palin
seemed to float along on a tide of likability. The way she looked, the
way she sounded, the way she moved - it all combined to make people
feel they knew her in some way, and that they should vote for her. "She
was a rock star, no doubt about it," says Stein.

Nobody in Wasilla believes that Palin's parents, by all accounts
reserved people, coached such polished performances. Rather, Stein and
others point to the confidence that came with high school sporting
success, her brief time as a TV reporter, and the opportunities she had
to speak up at church.

Chase sees something else. "She's really pretty insecure. I was with
her before she gave a speech to the people from BP in Anchorage when
she was running for governor, and she was terrified. There are real
fears there. But every time she goes out and persuades people to like
her, it lifts her, it makes her feel better about herself.

"She draws on something inside herself to make them like her. She's a
natural actress. And then she wants to do it again, with even more
people. She's a brilliant politician, but it's all about getting more
and more people to love her."

With her charismatic appeal and the backing of many of the town's
evangelicals, Palin triumphed in the mayoral contest, winning by 616
votes to 413. Stein, a Lutheran, recalls a local radio station
reporting that the town finally had a Christian mayor.

In office, Palin did not push the conservative social agenda at the
heart of her election campaign. She couldn't: she was running an
authority little bigger than an English parish council - albeit one
with a $6m budget - and her main responsibilities were for planning
applications, road maintenance, and the town's 13-strong police force.

Her critics in Wasilla say she made the job appear more difficult than
it was because of her confrontational style of management. She sacked
the police chief, other senior staff resigned, and Cooper was made
redundant. "One of her conservative supporters came up to me in the
street and said: 'Gotcha Cooper!'"

The town's librarian, Mary Ellen Emmons, was fired after standing up to
Palin during a conversation about censorship. She was reinstated
shortly afterwards, amid a public outcry, and the McCain team now
insists that the conversation had been "rhetorical". But Chase says she
recalls Palin telling the librarian that she objected to a children's
book about gay parents called Daddy's Roommate. "I brought a copy to
the next council meeting and offered it to Sarah to read. She said: 'I
don't need to read that kind of stuff.'"

An editorial accused the mayor of confusing her 616 votes with a
"coronation", adding: "Palin promised to change the status quo, but at
every turn we find hints of cronyism and political manoeuvring."

A public meeting was held in the town's theatre, with some urging a
recall, a form of impeachment, to remove her from office. Palin learned
her lesson fast, lowering her profile and leaving day-to-day
administration to the council's senior civil servant. "I grew
tremendously in my early months as mayor," was how she later described
that time.

When Palin was 12 she was born again, and was baptised in the frigid
waters of one of the half-dozen lakes around Wasilla. From that day,
and throughout her time as mayor, she and her mother worshipped at the
Assembly of God, a Pentecostal church where some members of the
congregation speak in tongues, and where the current pastor is on
record as saying he believes that the end of the world is nigh.

While Palin has since moved to another evangelical church - reportedly
telling friends it is "less extreme" - Pentecostalism undoubtedly
helped forge her views. She says she believes creationism should be
taught alongside evolution, and says abortion is an "atrocity" that
should be permitted only when the life of the mother is at stake.

When she made her next step in Alaskan politics, however, she made no
attempt to turn these views into policy. Nor, to the displeasure of
local Republicans, did she make much effort to uphold traditional party
values. Instead, by the time Palin ran for governor in 2006, she had
remoulded herself as a campaigner against sleaze and corruption.

It was a good moment to be a moral crusader. For two years the FBI had
been raiding the homes and offices of prominent Alaskan Republicans,
investigating their links with oil companies. Five politicians were
eventually charged with bribery and corruption.

The incumbent Republican governor, Frank Murkowski, was wildly
unpopular - largely because of his cosy relationship with Big Oil - and
Palin had established her ethical credentials by resigning from the
state's Oil and Gas Conservation Commission in protest at what she
described as the corruption of fellow Republicans.

Turning on their TVs during the election, many Alaskans saw Palin's
folksy, nose-wrinkling, you-betcha style for the first time, and they
liked what they saw. They liked that she was fresh and she was feisty
and that she really did seem to offer change. Disillusioned Republicans
were relieved to see someone - anyone - doing battle with the party's
leathery old guard. Polls showed that even university-educated, liberal
women warmed to her. Palin was swept effortlessly into office,
capturing 48% of the vote in a three-way race.

She surrounded herself with a group of aides whose loyalty was beyond
question. Soon they came to describe themselves as Palinistas.
According to a number of sources, one of her aides, who is on the state
payroll, has been working as a full-time babysitter for Trig in recent
months. Todd Palin also appears to play a role in the government of the
state. Although unelected, and not holding any salaried office, he is
known to take part in a number of meetings.

The new governor enjoyed approval ratings of more than 80% in the
months after her election. But it was not long before a slightly
puzzled electorate began wondering who it was that they had elected and
what it was that she really believed.

Forging alliances with Democrats, Palin pursued a shamelessly populist
agenda, imposing a windfall tax on oil companies. Leftwing Democrats
hailed the Palinistas as "Alaskan redneck socialists", while
Republicans muttered that their governor was "imposing British levels
of taxation". After she used a chunk of the revenue to send a $1,200
cheque to each man, woman and child in the state, her opponents knew
protest was pointless.


She dismayed many on the religious right by blocking a bill that would
have denied benefits to same-sex partners of state employees,
maintaining she had no choice because it was unconstitutional. She also
resisted Republican attempts to force abortion restriction measures on
to the legislative agenda, apparently because she did not wish to
alienate her new Democrat allies. Lyda Green, Republican president of
the state senate, speaks for many in the party in Alaska when she says
Palin has been "disappointingly liberal" since she was elected
governor.

Others, who had hoped to see Palin translate her high approval rating
into legislation aimed at tackling Alaska's perennial problems of
alcohol abuse and underperforming schools, were exasperated by how
little she wanted to do.

Larry Persily, a senior civil servant who has worked for three Alaskan
governors and is a former associate director of Palin's office in
Washington, says: "She was just not interested. She had no interest in
public policy beyond the populist drive to raise oil taxes and push
through ethics reforms that the Democrats had already drafted."

Rebecca Braun, editor of Alaska Budget Report, a non-aligned political
newsletter, adds: "If she hasn't pushed the teaching of creationism in
schools, it's because she hasn't pushed the teaching of anything in
schools. She hasn't promoted her rightwing views because she hasn't
promoted any views at all. She really hasn't done very much."

But if Palin's approval ratings were falling by last summer, her
sincerity as a social conservative being questioned, her Republican
credentials under attack, and her commitment to reform belied by a
track record of inertia, she could always point to her impeccable
ethical standards.

Palin stands accused of sacking the head of the state's police force,
Walt Monegan, when he refused to dismiss her former brother-in-law, a
state trooper who had been through a bitter divorce and child custody
battle with her younger sister. There is evidence suggesting some
members of her family waged a vendetta against the trooper, Mike
Wooten, making complaints that he had broken the law, committed
disciplinary offences, and lied to obtain sickness benefits. Eventually
a divorce court judge warned family members to leave the man alone.

Wooten was investigated and disciplined in March 2006, but when Palin
was elected governor later that year, she and her husband, and members
of her staff, are said to have pressed to have the case reopened. When
Monegan was sacked last July, he claimed that his refusal to fire
Wooten had cost him his job, an allegation Palin denies.

An investigation into Troopergate was ordered by the state's
legislature, and a report on the matter is due to be published today.
While Palin initially agreed to cooperate, her husband and several
members of her staff resisted giving evidence, despite being summonsed.
It has also emerged that Palin and her senior aides used personal email
accounts while conducting official business in order to conceal their
communications about Wooten.

Many Alaskans have been greatly disappointed by Palin's behaviour
during the Troopergate affair. Patrick Dougherty, editor of the
Anchorage Daily News, the state's main newspaper, says the episode has
"raised serious doubts about her honesty and integrity".

By late August, Palin's approval ratings were still high in Alaska, but
there were growing doubts about her ability and sincerity, and there
was an investigation hanging over her head. And at this point, no doubt
looking at her public performances and her star quality, McCain and his
team decided she was the ideal running mate.

Dougherty says his reaction was one of disbelief when he heard. "She
was clearly unqualified."

Lyda Green was equally astonished. "I'm a loyal Republican and I want
to see the Republican party do well and do the right thing. But before
she was selected, no one came to Alaska and asked the questions you're
asking now. And that, to me, is insufficient."

If McCain had sent people to Alaska with instructions to ask who Palin
really is, to find out what substance lay behind the style, how
successful might they have been?

Asked what drives his former boss, Persily confesses he cannot be sure.
"She likes being in the limelight, being the centre of attention. What
she really craves is popularity, she wants the warmth and love of the
public." Laura Chase says Palin has an uncanny ability to be all things
to all people. "She can walk up to people and quickly have a perception
of what they want her to be, and she will instantly be that person."

Persily and Chase, who do not know each other, use the same word to
describe Palin: chameleon. Both also use similar language to explain
how much she unnerves them.

Chase says: "I admire her, she has boundless energy and great
determination. But the idea that she could be the leader of the free
world scares the hell out of me."

Persily believes Palin is "immature, inexperienced, and has poor
judgment", but acknowledges that she could still become president. "And
that," he says, "should scare the hell out of everybody."

On Oct 10, 10:16*pm, Lazarus Cooke
wrote:

Persily believes Palin is "immature, inexperienced, and has poor
judgment", but acknowledges that she could still become president. "And
that," he says, "should scare the hell out of everybody."

Marginally interesting, but the conclusions are fogged, subjective,
and give no especial insight. Really successful modern American
politicians have always been snake oil salesmen, it is a prerequisite.

Much the same as a number of the people here who are "discussing" it.
Dishonest, doubtful morals, no integrity, very little character, and
the ready willingness to use anything they can to discredit others,
even lies if necessary, and without a thought for the consequences..

These American political campaigns are invariably a cascade of
negatives, ( also accurately reflected here). The main aim being to
discredit the opponent. Anybody with no knowledge of the matter,
easily impressed, and more or less dispassionately reading all this,
would have to conclude that none of the candidates are suitable for
anything at all other than cleaning stables under supervision.

It wont be long now before we know who wins anyway, and whoever it is,
( although I strongly assume that Obama will take it), will face an
incredibly difficult struggle to get some things in order, assuming
they can be put in order at all under the circumstances obtaining.

One thing is certain, calling people names, denigrating and defaming
them, and wailing about previous politics or incumbents, or the
parties involved, will not solve any problems at all.

Tempting to say "**** ´em! It´s no skin off my nose", but
unfortunately it is. The economic collapse of the American system is
already causing massive damage to other people, and causing other
systems to fail as well.

The presidential election as such is merely a minor consideration in
the face of that. It really doesn´t make a lot of difference who is
driving when the car hits a brick wall head on.

On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 11:07:33 -0400, jeff miller
wrote:

wrote:
Illinois/Independent Precinct Organizations, 1997

and also, that
Columbia and Harvard isn't as impressive as Yale and Harvard...

HTH,
R


...if anyone else had written that tripe, you'd be all over them.
um...what were the grade points/honors earned??? i reckon you're saying
a c-student at yale is more impressive than a b-student at columbia,

Absolutely. An F- student at Yale is better than A+ with gold-star
clusters student at some backwater trade school like Columbia...

and
harvard law/law review prez, magna cum laude student is less impressive
than a ****wit mba-student at the same university?

Less impressive? No. But I will say I find it funny that when many
talk about Obama and his education, they seem so impressed with
"_HARVARD_" - "Obama went to _HARVARD_," but when those same folks talk
about Bush, Harvard becomes no big deal. The simple fact is that
"****wits" don't score 1200-plus on the (old) SAT and have undergrad
degrees from Yale (admittedly History, IIRC) with grad degrees from
Harvard. And no, I'm not claiming that Bush is some genius - he isn't.
But as wrong as doing that would be, going to extremes the other way is
equally wrong. The simple fact is that Bush is of higher than average
intelligence, but nothing noteworthy.

you're slipping in your contrariness...

Well, I know I've been slipping in something here lately...I had figured
it was all the bull**** from the respective campaigns...

TC,
R