ot health care

On 2009-09-22 17:45:58 -0400, rw said:

David LaCourse wrote:
Forgot to add, Steve. You, Fortenberry, and ****stain don't have to
worry about prostate cancer. You have to have testosterone to have
prostate cancer. No balls. Not prostate cancer.

In fact, my PSA spiked up in my last blood test. My doctor is a little
concerned, but she thinks it might have been caused by the prostate
exam she administered. :-) I'm not too worried. Only about 1/3 of the
patients with elevated PSA actually have prostate cancer.

Hope you are not in that 1/3, Steve. Stay in the States.

Like you, Dave, I have excellent health care. Unlike you, I'm concerned
about the many people who don't have it, or can't get it, or who are
one paycheck away from losing it, or who have to put up with the
obnoxious, stonewalling tactics of the for-profit insurance companies.
I'm also concerned, as we all should be, about the excessive costs and
sub-par outcomes we have in the good ol' US of A.

Unlike me? smile I am, Steve, and I don't just talk the walk, I
walk it. My week is filled with helping others, and I see abject
poverty up close, with people who have lost their jobs and humiliated
because they have to accept food from us. I see women who have babies
after babies - they've been pregnant for 3 or 4 years, spittin' out
little ones that they can't provide for, all with a different father
and no support money. They all have insurance; Mass has insurance for
those that are unemployed or poverty stricken. That is also why the
State is approaching a 3 billion dollar deficit with no hope in sight.

Ya ever seen a well dressed woman weep because she has to accept aid,
cry because she is so miserable and there is no hope for her. Ya ever
seen a man, a young man with two kids, so sad and beaten up, without a
job and no way to feed his family except through charity given by
othes. Volunteer, Steve. Surely in Nancy's district there are the
down trodden, the dregs of *your* society.

I am all for health care for these people, but the Federal Government
can't do it. They have screwed up everything from SS, to Medicare,
from Amtral to the Post Office, from one war to the next. You have too
many people IN government telling the people that EMPLOY them what to
do. The Feds (read Obama) wants to control all of health care, and
they can't do it because they are not in the business of running
ANYTHING. How do you think they will pay for it? Cutting medicare is
one way. Aren't you close to that age?

Get an ad hoc committee together of NON-POLITICIANS, and include
nurses, doctors, dentests, industrialists, insurance brokers, etc.
Don't let Nancy and Harry tell us what THEY want.

Now, go and volunteer at a soup kitchen or a day nursery, or as a
helper in city hospital or a food pantry. Then come back and compare
notes.

Dave
A concerned conservative that cares

Oh, btw: For those that are happy that the US is lower than Cuba with
IMR. The guy that caught the 21 inch brook trout is a Ob/Gyn. I
didn't know this until discussing the fish at dinner tonight. I asked
him about this and he rolled his eyes. I told him my thought - poor
folks that pump out baby and baby without any thought, druggies,
alcoholics, and technology trying to save a baby that would have been a
still birth. He said all of this is true, but what he thinks is the
main incredient to the disparity is the homogeneous population of
Sweden, Cuba, et al. while the the U.S. has hundreds if not thousands
of different blood/background mixes.

And **** you Wolfgang and your idiotic posts.

On Sep 19, 11:44*am, wrote:
On Fri, 18 Sep 2009 23:31:43 GMT, "Tom Littleton" wrote:
a collection of thoughts on the topic at hand:
First, it is truly comical the BS that passes for American views of other
nations healthcare in this debate. That is, it would be comical if it
weren't, at times, coming from elected officials sworn to be acting in the
public's interest.
Second, the US system is SO ****ed up as to be a truly daunting challenge to
rectify. A few key items:
1. We charge massive tuition for doctors to become educated in the field..
Other nations feel it to be in their national interest not to saddle
physicians with huge personal debts.

True, but "we" then allow "them" to "make up for it" by charging and making a
pretty penny. *I realize not all doctors are "wealthy" and most don't start out
rolling in it, but damned few take chickens and farm products in trade nowadays,
too....most US doctors are pretty well-off (if they don't **** it away).

2. Our system of malpractice litigation leads to massive increases in costs
and further, to defensive medical practices that do little to benefit the
patient.

I've heard in this "debate," in/on the mass media, a neurosurgeon bemoan the
fact that malpractice insurance cost him 10% of his take-home income and he
expected it to increase to nearly 15%. *He later stated that he felt that it was
ridiculous that he had to pay $200,000.00USD for malpractice insurance - I'll
allow the reader to do the math. *Long story short, I know quite a few doctors,
and damned few of them are living in mobile home parks, driving old clunkers,
and eating free cheese on dry day-old bread.

3. Our insurance industry runs with huge overhead costs and generates
exceptional profits. Healthcare should never have been made a business in
the first place. As Jeff stated, basic, quality care should be a right of
everyone from birth, in this country.

Why? *Now, I'd agree that "society" should help those who cannot help
themselves, within reason, but I do not agree that _everyone_ has the _right_ to
anything in this country, nor do I feel that those who can but won't help
themselves have a _right_ to health care.





4. We compensate providers on the basis of fee for service, rather than by
diagnosis and outcome. This nearly guarantees inflated services and
fraudulant billing. This applies to doctors, hospitals, laboratories, etc.

and, those are just the high(or low) points. The problem, as I see it, is
that fixing the mess will require a VERY drastic overhaul, and I frankly do
not see any political will to change to the extent needed. Half-measures and
gradual measures will, as likely as not, actually make the problems of
undercoverage, price gouging and bad outcomes worse. Obama has it right when
he states that, left in the status quo, healthcare will bankrupt the Federal
and State budgets and impoverish many more citizens, as time goes on. Thus,
healthcare reform ought to be the nation's utmost domestic priority. To have
it sullied with the absolute nonsense, such as bogus claims of the
shortcomings of other nations, 'death panels', and the like is close to a
national disgrace. Folks like Louie cry that 'my taxes will go up!!', while
I sit here figuring mine probably wouldn't go up, under a single-payer
model, more than the $14,000-plus in premiums I am currently paying. Add in
out-of pocket debacles like Ken cites, and for many folks, such a system
would prove a godsend.
I despair that anything will come of the current debate other than a
half-baked compromise that the luddites can point to in 6 or 7 years and
say, "look! Healthcare reform is a failure". That saddens me.

....just one person's opinion. No, I haven't any personal experience will
the healthcare systems of other nations, but, I have spent the past 30 years
working in our healthcare system, and know something is very, very
wrong......
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Tom

The real core issue is that "health care" has become VERY big business, yet many
want to treat it as primarily a social service (look no further than your and
jeff's feeling that "everyone has a right..." etc., etc.). *Furthermore, damned
few are prepared to answer the questions I asked - "At what point do you feel
that obligations end?" *Let's distill it down in an admittedly extreme example:

Suppose there are only 100 people in an imaginary little near-utopia. *3 are
doctors who are, magically, complete and total experts in every aspect of
medicine - they are the sum total of man's current medical knowledge. *There is
a 5 room hospital with every possible medical device, lab, etc. - it represents
the sum total of man's medical "equipment." *There is a single admin guy who can
do it all (you know, sort of a Wayne Knight type...) and 2 nurses who can handle
all those duties. *The rest of the population consists of 85 people who work
hard and for the most part, meet all of our little society's needs, and they are
in a socio-economic hierarchy that roughly approximates that of the US -
occasionally a small number aren't needed, so they are temporarily unoccupied,
but they remain ready and willing to jump right back in and produce. *There are
4 people who cannot produce anything (let's just say they are legitimately
unable, for whatever reason), but the bulk of the population wants to support
them reasonably but modestly. *And then, there are 5 that just say, "**** it, I
don't want to work..." *At first, the rest don't worry too much about it and
give them a little something - mere subsistence at best. *But then, one of the
layabouts gets REALLY sick, and being a good little society, the producers
produce the extra it takes to fix them up. *Then another gets sorta sick...and
the producers produce. *And then, before you know it, the non-producers are
really taxing the system, and before you know it, one of the producers says,
"hey, ya know, I think I'll just say I don't want to work, too..." *And then
another...

*At what point do the producers get to say, "Hey, enough is enough..."?

Mostly long before they finish reading any one of your tedious
exercises in third grade logic.

Or, do you feel they don't have that right?

What's feelings got to do with it?

Moron.

g.

On Sep 22, 4:36*pm, David LaCourse wrote:
Forgot to add, Steve. *You, Fortenberry, and ****stain don't have to
worry about prostate cancer. *You have to have testosterone to have
prostate cancer. *No balls. *Not prostate cancer.

Cretin.

Pig.

g.

On Sep 22, 7:16*pm, David LaCourse wrote:
On 2009-09-22 17:45:58 -0400, rw said:

David LaCourse wrote:
Forgot to add, Steve. *You, Fortenberry, and ****stain don't have to
worry about prostate cancer. *You have to have testosterone to have
prostate cancer. *No balls. *Not prostate cancer.

In fact, my PSA spiked up in my last blood test. My doctor is a little
concerned, but she thinks it might have been caused by the prostate
exam she administered. :-) I'm not too worried. Only about 1/3 of the
patients with elevated PSA actually have prostate cancer.

Hope you are not in that 1/3, Steve. *Stay in the States.



Like you, Dave, I have excellent health care. Unlike you, I'm concerned
about the many people who don't have it, or can't get it, or who are
one paycheck away from losing it, or who have to put up with the
obnoxious, stonewalling tactics of the for-profit insurance companies.
I'm also concerned, as we all should be, about the excessive costs and
sub-par outcomes we have in the good ol' US of A.

Unlike me? * smile *I am, Steve, and I don't just talk the walk, I
walk it. *My week is filled with helping others, and I see abject
poverty up close, with people who have lost their jobs and humiliated
because they have to accept food from us. *I see women who have babies
after babies - they've been pregnant for 3 or 4 years, spittin' out
little ones that they can't provide for, all with a different father
and no support money. *They all have insurance; *Mass has insurance for
those that are unemployed or poverty stricken. *That is also why the
State is approaching a 3 billion dollar deficit with no hope in sight.

Ya ever seen a well dressed woman weep because she has to accept aid,
cry because she is so miserable and there is no hope for her. *Ya ever
seen a man, a young man with two kids, so sad and beaten up, without a
job and no way to feed his family except through charity given by
othes. *Volunteer, Steve. *Surely in Nancy's district there are the
down trodden, the dregs of *your* society.

I am all for health care for these people, but the Federal Government
can't do it. *They have screwed up everything from SS, to Medicare,
from Amtral to the Post Office, from one war to the next. *You have too
many people IN government telling the people that EMPLOY them what to
do. *The Feds (read Obama) wants to control all of health care, and
they can't do it because they are not in the business of running
ANYTHING. *How do you think they will pay for it? *Cutting medicare is
one way. *Aren't you close to that age?

Get an ad hoc committee together of NON-POLITICIANS, and include
nurses, doctors, dentests, industrialists, insurance brokers, etc. *
Don't let Nancy and Harry tell us what THEY want.

Now, go and volunteer at a soup kitchen or a day nursery, or as a
helper in city hospital or a food pantry. *Then come back and compare
notes.

Dave
A concerned conservative that cares

Oh, btw: *For those that are happy that the US is lower than Cuba with
IMR. *The guy that caught the 21 inch brook trout is a Ob/Gyn. *I
didn't know this until discussing the fish at dinner tonight. *I asked
him about this and he rolled his eyes. *I told him my thought - poor
folks that pump out baby and baby without any thought, druggies,
alcoholics, and technology trying to save a baby that would have been a
still birth. *He said all of this is true, but what he thinks is the
main incredient to the disparity is the homogeneous population of
Sweden, Cuba, et al. *while the the U.S. has hundreds if not thousands
of different blood/background mixes.

And **** you Wolfgang and your idiotic posts.

Idiot.

g.

On Sep 22, 4:32*pm, David LaCourse wrote:
On 2009-09-21 22:43:08 -0400, Giles said:





On Sep 21, 3:49*pm, David LaCourse wrote:
On 2009-09-20 20:23:14 -0400, Giles said:

On Sep 20, 8:13*am, David LaCourse wrote:
On 2009-09-19 22:21:39 -0400, Tim Lysyk said:

David LaCourse wrote:
On 2009-09-19 16:30:19 -0400, Ken Fortenberry
said:

Tort reform is a Republican red herring.

Tort reform works in Canada and the UK. *It will never work here
because trial lawyers give to much money to the president and congre
ss
.

And yes, he is smarmy.

I think Ken may have mentioned that in a single payer system, there i
s
a lot less that has to be invested in administrative costs to deal wi
th
collecting from and fighting with insurance companies.

Ah, yes. *Yet another bureaucracy. *Things do not work the same he
re
as
in Canada, Tim. *Give government a foot in the door and there will s
oon
be a bureacracy so big, it would not be efficient. *The u.s. gov has
made a mess of everything it touches, including SS, Medicare, Medicaid
,
VA care, Amtrac. *Giving them 1/6 of the u.s. economy would be invit
ing
disaster.

Health care for everyone would be the correct thing to do, but do not
allow the feds to run it. *There has to be a better way. *Correct
wha
t
is wrong instead of redistrubing the available resources. * If Obama
takes from one program (say, Medicare) to give to those that have no
care, that is redistribution of wealth, and it is exactly what he woul
d
like to do. *Leave capitalism alone. *It works. *Communism does
not
*-
even the nations practicing it now rely on capitalism. *Why? *Beau
se
it
works. *Fix what is wrong and don't throw out the baby with the wash
water. *Our health care is the best in the world. *Expensive, yes,
*bu
t
the best. *Surely we can find a better way than turning over 1/6 of
our
economy to a system that has a history of ineffeciancy.

Going fishing. *Late already.

Dave

You should listen to davie, Tim. *After all, he's been sucking on the
government tit for a lifetime.....actually, more than one, depending
on how you count. * * *

g.

Yeah! *Ain't it great, Wolfgang? *Twenty years in the military workin
g
for a stipend, then another stipend when I retired, then SS at age 62.5
(yet another stipend). *And now Medicare. *Sure am glad I worked hard
after my military career and have that nice civilian retirement from
GTE. *What's that - three incomes. *Well, actually one income from th
e
GTE career and $30,000 stipend from the Guvverment. *Niiiiiiice. *It
does allow for some great fishing in Alaska, Russia, Labrador, Chile,
Tiera del Fuego, the Bahamas, Idaho, Montana, etc. *Why, without the
little stipend I get from my government, I'd only be able to fish the
Rapid for 6 or 7 weeks a year. *Hey, I'm here now for yet another week.
*Weather is cool, water is cold, fish are jumpin', cabin is warm with a
fire in the stove.

BLTs for lunch today after I fished the morning landing several nice
salmon and brookies. *Took a well deserved nap and now I'm sitting on
the porch overlooking the lake. *It's been calm all day, but now a
slight breeze has built up and put some whitecaps on the lake. *
Absolutely beautiful day for fishing or just hangin' around answering
fools on the internet.

Baked stuffed chicken breasts (stuffed with rice and Italian sausage)
for dinner. *There'll be birthday cake for Joanne for desert, and lots
of champagne. *Life is great. *Be sure to not get fired, Wolfgang.
*I
need your tax money so that I can have these little luxuries in life. *
Don't be a good Democrat like your hero Charlie Rangel. *Pay those
taxes. man.

TIA

Davey
(Hey, did I tell ya about the new S6 I'm buying. *Gonna keep the RS6
for track days at NH International. *Next report from the Sechelles in
February)

Imbecile.

Pig.

g.

Stinky pants.

Funny face.

****stain.

Davey- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Moron.

g.

On 22-Sep-2009, David LaCourse wrote:




And **** you Wolfgang and your idiotic posts.

WoW!
Don't let Jeff Miller see this.

Fred

On Sep 22, 10:52*pm, "Fred" wrote:
On 22-Sep-2009, David LaCourse wrote:



And **** you Wolfgang and your idiotic posts.

WoW!

Huzzah!

Don't let Jeff Miller see this.

Good plan. Now, how to implement it.....hm.....

g.