Substitutes for calftail on Trudes?

Howdy,

In preparation for my trip to the Crowsnest at the end of
July/beginning of August, I've been stocking up the flyboxes. From
what I've read, the Lime Trude is aa excellent all-purpose fly for
that time of year, so yesterday I started tying some. In going
through my materials, I ran across some white CDC oiler puffs, and got
to thinking about how they might work as a wing on a Trude. I tend to
fish a Trude as a combination dry/wet by letting it swing and
retrieving it like a streamer after the drift, and it seems like the
CDC might add a bit of extra appeal.

I tied some up with the CDC, and in the vise they look very nice.
I know that the only way to know for sure is to ty them, but I was
just curious if any ROFFians or ROFFTians have played around with
substituting CDC like this. I was also thinking that the "hi-viz"
stuff might make a nice wing on Trudes.

So am I just getting carried away with my "improvements", or is
there some legitimacy to making a sub like that? Any other subs that
you frequently make to traditional flies?

Also, I tied up a few of the CDC and elk caddis imitations
(http://www.troutflies.com/Merchant2/...y_Code=cdc_elk)
and was thinking about other variations. Any suggestions for other
color schemes that have been succesful for you?


Chuck Vance

HIYA

Bucktail also works on trudes


Lou


"Conan The Librarian" wrote in message
om...
Howdy,

In preparation for my trip to the Crowsnest at the end of
July/beginning of August, I've been stocking up the flyboxes. From
what I've read, the Lime Trude is aa excellent all-purpose fly for
that time of year, so yesterday I started tying some. In going
through my materials, I ran across some white CDC oiler puffs, and got
to thinking about how they might work as a wing on a Trude. I tend to
fish a Trude as a combination dry/wet by letting it swing and
retrieving it like a streamer after the drift, and it seems like the
CDC might add a bit of extra appeal.

I tied some up with the CDC, and in the vise they look very nice.
I know that the only way to know for sure is to ty them, but I was
just curious if any ROFFians or ROFFTians have played around with
substituting CDC like this. I was also thinking that the "hi-viz"
stuff might make a nice wing on Trudes.

So am I just getting carried away with my "improvements", or is
there some legitimacy to making a sub like that? Any other subs that
you frequently make to traditional flies?

Also, I tied up a few of the CDC and elk caddis imitations

(http://www.troutflies.com/Merchant2/...Product_Code=c
dc_elk100&Category_Code=cdc_elk)
and was thinking about other variations. Any suggestions for other
color schemes that have been succesful for you?


Chuck Vance

(Conan The Librarian) wrote in
om:

Howdy,

Aaaah, yeah, G'day ...

[trudey snip]
I tied some up with the CDC, and in the vise they look very nice.
I know that the only way to know for sure is to ty them, but I was
just curious if any ROFFians or ROFFTians have played around with
substituting CDC like this. I was also thinking that the "hi-viz"
stuff might make a nice wing on Trudes.

The CDC will give your flies some bounce, if theres CDC in the windg
and you drag the fly under via line manipulation then throw some slack
the fly will pop back to the surface. Can be an interesting.


So am I just getting carried away with my "improvements", or is
there some legitimacy to making a sub like that?

Yes.

;-)

Any other subs that
you frequently make to traditional flies?

Frequently? I wouldn't say frequently...
Gomez Adams: Black Calftail wings
Black Prince: Prince Nymph with black dyed peacock herl
Dr Wark: Tinsel Body instead of thread

Red Tag: clipped deer hair body instead of herl.
foam tag (instead of wool) and underbody

Actually some of the Mountain stream fishos might like the Blow Fly
Humpy - Black Humpy with a blue tinsel body -
http://www.flyfishingnz.co.nz/images/flies%20012.jpg


Also, I tied up a few of the CDC and elk caddis imitations
Any suggestions for other color schemes that have been
succesful for you?


Don't forget you can swing the CDC & E. Variations:
All white for a specific caddis species. Hot orange butts on tan and
natural dun coloured flys for searchers.
Untested green butt models look the goods as well.

Replacing the deer wing with snowshoe rabbit on a few patterns might be
worth a try.


Steve (who just had an idea)

Conan The Librarian wrote:
Howdy,

In preparation for my trip to the Crowsnest at the end of
July/beginning of August, I've been stocking up the flyboxes. From
what I've read, the Lime Trude is aa excellent all-purpose fly for
that time of year, so yesterday I started tying some. In going
through my materials, I ran across some white CDC oiler puffs, and got
to thinking about how they might work as a wing on a Trude. I tend to
fish a Trude as a combination dry/wet by letting it swing and
retrieving it like a streamer after the drift, and it seems like the
CDC might add a bit of extra appeal.

I tied some up with the CDC, and in the vise they look very nice.
I know that the only way to know for sure is to ty them, but I was
just curious if any ROFFians or ROFFTians have played around with
substituting CDC like this. I was also thinking that the "hi-viz"
stuff might make a nice wing on Trudes.

So am I just getting carried away with my "improvements", or is
there some legitimacy to making a sub like that? Any other subs that
you frequently make to traditional flies?

Hi Chuck-

I've tied Trudes with an underwing of CDC for a few years now, but still
use calf body as the overwing. I've found with a purely CDC wing, the
profile and shadow it casts on the water isn't right and they aren't
taken as regularly.

Larry

Conan The Librarian wrote:

Howdy,

In preparation for my trip to the Crowsnest at the end of
July/beginning of August, I've been stocking up the flyboxes. From
what I've read, the Lime Trude is aa excellent all-purpose fly for
that time of year, so yesterday I started tying some. In going
through my materials, I ran across some white CDC oiler puffs, and got
to thinking about how they might work as a wing on a Trude. I tend to
fish a Trude as a combination dry/wet by letting it swing and
retrieving it like a streamer after the drift, and it seems like the
CDC might add a bit of extra appeal.

I tied some up with the CDC, and in the vise they look very nice.
I know that the only way to know for sure is to ty them, but I was
just curious if any ROFFians or ROFFTians have played around with
substituting CDC like this. I was also thinking that the "hi-viz"
stuff might make a nice wing on Trudes.

Personally I tie most of my downwing flies with Elk but calf tail has
different properties and I think it is better as a damp/wet fly. There
was a local guy that got a reputation, years ago, for impressive catches
he made on Rio Grande Kings ( a calf tail trude similar to the Pass
Lake). The rumor was that he fished them damp and with action.

CDC is very appealing to fish. I use it as an under wing on some
patterns but I've never used it by itself in a down wing pattern. (I do
however like CDC comparadun style flies especially for the small insects).


So am I just getting carried away with my "improvements", or is
there some legitimacy to making a sub like that? Any other subs that
you frequently make to traditional flies?


I think that most people who have been tying for some time usually make
changes to traditional flies for a variety of reasons. There are few
standard patterns I tie as "specified." Some changes are improvements
and some aren't. Experimenting with patterns is what tying is about,
IMO, and there is nothing more legitimate than trying out a sub. But for
patterns that have been around a long time and are still effective, it's
likely that the originator found some combinations that were appealing
to fish.

Willi

snip

Replacing the deer wing with snowshoe rabbit on a few patterns might be
worth a try.


Steve (who just had an idea)


Not sure if it what you had in mind Steve, but after your earlier rant about
snowshoe feet, I tied up a "snowshoe caddis" version of the CDC Loopwing
caddis (which is more or less an EHC without the palmered hackle and with
CDC rather than deer hair from what I can see), using a snowshoe wing rather
than CDC. I added a little folded feather overwing and a dubbed showshoe
head. Very simple tie and the fly floated a treat and caught fish after fish
without having to be dried - unlike CDC. Useful things these rabbits feet. I
will be interested to see if someone has idears for dyeing it. I was
interested in trying this myself but I worry a bit about boiling the feet
seems more like soup making than dyeing.

Vaughan

Stephen Welsh wrote in message .1.4...

[little snip]

The CDC will give your flies some bounce, if theres CDC in the windg
and you drag the fly under via line manipulation then throw some slack
the fly will pop back to the surface. Can be an interesting.

Hmmmm ... interesting as in the fishies seem to like it? :-)

So am I just getting carried away with my "improvements", or is
there some legitimacy to making a sub like that?

Yes.

;-)

Just as I suspected. :-)

[snip of various substitution suggestions]

Actually some of the Mountain stream fishos might like the Blow Fly
Humpy - Black Humpy with a blue tinsel body -
http://www.flyfishingnz.co.nz/images/flies%20012.jpg

Thanks for your suggestions. I remember seeing the blow fly
before. It looks just gaudy enough to work.

Don't forget you can swing the CDC & E. Variations:
All white for a specific caddis species. Hot orange butts on tan and
natural dun coloured flys for searchers.
Untested green butt models look the goods as well.

Thanks again for the ideas. I was playing around yesterday and
tied up a cripple variation that looks interesting. Stole the idea
from a Bruce Salzburg pattern that I ran across
(http://www.danica.com/flytier/bsalzb...led_cdcelk.htm). I
added an Antron shuck and tied up a couple with olive CDC and some of
the comparadun hair that Blue Ribbon Flies sells (which is really
beautiful stuff, BTW).

I also tied up some more CDC & Elk in cinnamon, brown and dun.
Some I tied up with a bleached elk wing, and some with the comparadun
hair.

Replacing the deer wing with snowshoe rabbit on a few patterns might be
worth a try.

Excellent. I've got a couple of feet but haven't yet incorporated
them into any patterns. I'll definitely give that a try.

Thanks, mate. :-)


Chuck Vance

Larry Medina wrote in message om...

I've tied Trudes with an underwing of CDC for a few years now, but still
use calf body as the overwing. I've found with a purely CDC wing, the
profile and shadow it casts on the water isn't right and they aren't
taken as regularly.

Oh well ... it looked nice in the vise anyway. I'll tie up a few
as you suggest and add them to my flybox. Thanks for the input,
Larry.


Chuck Vance

Willi wrote in message ...

Personally I tie most of my downwing flies with Elk but calf tail has
different properties and I think it is better as a damp/wet fly. There
was a local guy that got a reputation, years ago, for impressive catches
he made on Rio Grande Kings ( a calf tail trude similar to the Pass
Lake). The rumor was that he fished them damp and with action.

IIRC, the Trude was originally tied as a wet fly.

CDC is very appealing to fish. I use it as an under wing on some
patterns but I've never used it by itself in a down wing pattern. (I do
however like CDC comparadun style flies especially for the small insects).

OK, so now I've had two folks suggest using it as an underwing.
I'll tie up a few that way to take with me, thanks. As for CDC
comparaduns -- I tied up a few of those for the small Western green
drakes that I hope to get to test while I'm in Canada. I also
incorporated CDC into some Quigley-style cripples; some I did CDC &
Elk style, and in some others I substituted CDC for the forward wing.

I think that most people who have been tying for some time usually make
changes to traditional flies for a variety of reasons. There are few
standard patterns I tie as "specified." Some changes are improvements
and some aren't. Experimenting with patterns is what tying is about,
IMO, and there is nothing more legitimate than trying out a sub. But for
patterns that have been around a long time and are still effective, it's
likely that the originator found some combinations that were appealing
to fish.

Yeah, I'm sure that any "improvements" I might come up with have
been tried (and likely discarded) before. It's just that when you
have only a couple of trips per year to go after trout that don't dine
exclusively on cheese and corn, you have to try to work these things
out at the vise before you go.

While I have a fair knowledge of fishing for bass, I'm still a rank
newbie (emphasis on rank) when it comes to trout. That's why I was
curious if what looked good at the vise in this case had some other
qualities when actually fished. I've already tied up all the
standards that I've seen suggested for that area/time of year, so I
guess I'm just looking for a couple of flies that might give me an
extra edge.


Chuck Vance (isn't everyone?)

"Vaughan Hurry" wrote in news:cbr8so$en9$1
@hudsucker.umdac.umu.se:

I was
interested in trying this myself but I worry a bit about boiling the feet
seems more like soup making than dyeing.


Mmmm ... you could be right ...it could get messy. The heat causes other
(rabbit/deer) skin to "shrink" if you don't peg it out somehow. A
temperate to cold dye would be better.


Steve