Dry and dropper question

Lazarus Cooke wrote:

Mike wrote:

Tie your dropper on, and mount your dry fly using a loop. Just form a
loop in the line, thread the loop through the eye of the hook, and
over the fly. Pull slowly tight.

If you want to adjust the depth, just loosen the loop and slide the
dry fly along the leader.

This wont work with very small dries, but those would be pointless on
a dry and dropper rig anyway.


Wow! That is such an elegant solution. And I've never heard of it
anywhere before.


I second that. Very nice solution.

Tim Lysyk

Greetings Mike, I was hoping that you'd be around to answer my
question. :-)

Is there a way to make a dry and dropper rig so that adjusting the
depth of the dropper could be done easily? I do not want to use an
adjustable indicator or any other weird gadget, just two flies and
tippet / leader material.

Mike Tie your dropper on, and mount your dry fly using a loop. Just
Mike form a loop in the line, thread the loop through the eye of the
Mike hook, and over the fly. Pull slowly tight. If you want to adjust
Mike the depth, just loosen the loop and slide the dry fly along the
Mike leader.

Sounds like a _very_ elegant solution. I need this kind of a rig at
the beginning of next month when I fish for grayling with caddis larva
imitations. I will write a report here on any observations I will make
about that rig during the week.

Thanks!

--
Jarmo Hurri

Commercial email countermeasures included in header email
address. Remove all garbage from header email address when replying,
or just use .

On May 1, 11:47 pm, jeff miller wrote:
Mike wrote:
Of course, the drop fly is tied to the end of your leader.

TL
MC

ah...that's the part i didn't get. sounds workable, except won't the dry
fly slip during parts of the casting motion?

...i also like the idea of a short permanently attached leader to the
bend of the dry fly hook with a loop at the end for loop to loop
attachment of varying lengths of pre-rigged dropper leaders with flies.
i saw something - i think in an orvis circular - about a new (to me)
nymphing leader system that has a series of loops down its length
imparting a more natural action to the nymph as it moves with the current.

jeff

If the fly tends to slip. then make one twist in the loop before
threading the fly through it. In practice it does not actually slip
much. I have not used it very much really, I only recently thought of
it, ( end of last year) because I got fed up of having to change
tippet lengths for fishing varying depth grayling runs. I have never
seen it before either, so it might be a new idea.

First time I have published it anywhere either.

A couple of times, when larger fish took the dry, the fly slipped down
a bit. But it doesn´t slip much during casting. With large dries, I
use one twist in the loop before threading the fly through the loop.

With the leader ring, I twist the loop once anyway. This seems to lock
the ring in position very well.

I have tried various loop systems, but for one reason or another didn
´t like them much. They can cause tangles, interfere with leader
turnover, and are simply not very elegant.

I don´t like tippet off the bend off the dry, ( the "New Zealand
rig"), because it bumps fish, when they hit the nylon, and the hook
never enters their mouths.

After a large fish on the dry, you may have a slight kink in the
line, but it doesn´t seem to cause any problems.

TL
MC

On May 2, 9:48 am, Jarmo Hurri wrote:
Greetings Mike, I was hoping that you'd be around to answer my
question. :-)

Is there a way to make a dry and dropper rig so that adjusting the
depth of the dropper could be done easily? I do not want to use an
adjustable indicator or any other weird gadget, just two flies and
tippet / leader material.

Mike Tie your dropper on, and mount your dry fly using a loop. Just
Mike form a loop in the line, thread the loop through the eye of the
Mike hook, and over the fly. Pull slowly tight. If you want to adjust
Mike the depth, just loosen the loop and slide the dry fly along the
Mike leader.

Sounds like a _very_ elegant solution. I need this kind of a rig at
the beginning of next month when I fish for grayling with caddis larva
imitations. I will write a report here on any observations I will make
about that rig during the week.

Thanks!

--
Jarmo Hurri

Commercial email countermeasures included in header email
address. Remove all garbage from header email address when replying,
or just use .

I will look forward to hearing your comments. I like this solution a
lot, because it does not use any knots either. I used the same leader
for a few weeks, and got a lot of fish, without having to change
anything at all. I did use a five foot tippet, so that I had plenty
of adjustment. I prefer to use the leader ring, as I like the "stand
off" fly better than just threading the leader loop through the dry
fly eye, but both work.

TL
MC

With regard to "bumping" fish, when using the "New Zealand rig", this
is a lot worse when fishing for grayling, because of the way they rise
and take the fly. Indeed, I can´t remember hooking a single fish on
the dry while using it. I did try it for a while, but went back to
other methods after a season or so. I don´t use it for trout fishing
any more either.

As this sliding dry fly rig is "new", I don´t have much experience
with it, ( only half a grayling season), but it looks like becoming
one of my "go to" rigs for many situations.

Obviously, this rig is primarily designed to allow the nymph, soft
hackle, etc to fish at the right depth, but I still like to get the
fish that occasionally hit the dry fly. Otherwise, I might just as
well use a sliding indicator instead of a fly.

TL
MC

With regard to the twist in the loop. You can twist the loop before
you thread it through the eye, or after. If you do it before, it can
be difficult to pull the loop tight. It really does lock the loop
better though.

Once again a sketch of what I mean. This is twisted before of course.
If you do it after, thread the loop first, and then twist it before
threading the fly through it.

http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/9982/twistuu2.jpg

TL
MC

One final point which may be important here. A friend I met on the
water watched me using this rig, and was very enthusiastic about it. I
showed it to him,it really is very simple, takes longer to describe
it, than to do it. It also only takes seconds to adjust the depth, or
even to remove and re-attach the dry fly if desired, and the leader is
not compromised at all. No cuts, no knots, or other messing about.

Anyway, he set the rig up, and wandered off to another run. I met him
again later in the afternoon, and he told me that he had been broken a
couple of times at the loop on the eye of the dry fly, ( he had no
leader rings, and I had none with me), which surprised me a lot, as I
have never been broken like this.

It turned out he was using fluorocarbon tippet, and it seems this
stuff does not like being kinked sharply! Maybe he had poor stuff, or
something, or there were other reasons for this. I really don´t know.
I don´t use fluorocarbon, I only use nylon.

If you want to use fluorocarbon line, this may be an issue for you.
But I don´t know, as I have hardly any experience with it. I only
tried it for a while, and then went back to using nylon.

TL
MC

On Fri, 02 May 2008 00:48:44 GMT, Tim Lysyk wrote:

Lazarus Cooke wrote:

Mike wrote:

Tie your dropper on, and mount your dry fly using a loop. Just form a
loop in the line, thread the loop through the eye of the hook, and
over the fly. Pull slowly tight.

If you want to adjust the depth, just loosen the loop and slide the
dry fly along the leader.

This wont work with very small dries, but those would be pointless on
a dry and dropper rig anyway.


Wow! That is such an elegant solution. And I've never heard of it
anywhere before.

It's not a new idea and there's a reason many folks who FF only have not
heard of it before...

Here's a hint - if it were such a fantastic idea, you could use it in
all fishing situations to hold the fly to the leader, even without a
dropper below.

Simply try it with any hook and mono, and you should see why it ain't
all that great for FFing.

HTH,
R


I second that. Very nice solution.

Tim Lysyk

If you want to lock the loop in position more firmly, then take one
side of the loop once or twice around the hook shank, before feeding
the loop over it.

If you get a big fish on the dry, this will kink your line more as it
slides down the leader, but this did not cause me any particular
problems. The biggest problem I had was actually getting the loop
through the eye of some smaller dry flies, which is why I prefer the
leader ring setup as well.

You can also lock the leader ring more firmly using a similar
technique, just thread the loop twice through the ring, before
threading your fly and dropper through the loop. This will still slide
easily if you loosen the loop, but will take a lot more force to slide
it if the loop is tight. Indeed, if you feed it through three times
for instance, it probably wont slide at all unless you loosen the
loop.

I broke wet 6 lb mono trying variations of this, without the ring
sliding at all of course.

However, if I was getting a lot of fish on the dry fly, I would take
the nymph off, and fish a pure dry fly set up anyway.

TL
MC

On May 2, 4:58 pm, wrote:

It's not a new idea and there's a reason many folks who FF only have not
heard of it before...

Here's a hint - if it were such a fantastic idea, you could use it in
all fishing situations to hold the fly to the leader, even without a
dropper below.

Simply try it with any hook and mono, and you should see why it ain't
all that great for FFing.

HTH,
R

It is purely to solve the problem described in the original question.
It would be quite pointless using such a rig to attach flies like this
as a matter of course.

Nobody with any sense would even consider it................

Ah, I see.......... never mind.

MC