1 wt reel

Larry L wrote:
"Ken Fortenberry" wrote:
My 1wt has more fish landing backbone than you might think
and it's a good fishing tool for some circumstances.

thanks, Ken, that is the type fishing I assumed would be suited ....

I actually 'loved' the sweet casting little 2 wt Sage ( light Line model )
until I simply could not pull an exhausted fish up to me in Silver Creek.
It was a good fish, 18 inch or so, and I was an idiot and wore him out
BEFORE I figured out that the rod couldn't even move him, on his side,
against the current. If I had, I would have broken him off much earlier,
when he was fresh enough to survive. I was afraid to try landing without
the cushion of the rod, break the tippet after he was exhausted and he was a
dead trout. The water he was in was deep and the bottom dangerously
silty ( if you've been there you know what I mean ) so going to him was ...
literally dangerous ... but that is what I finally did ..... shipping a
little water over the waders and praying I'd not get stuck until I got him
in the net and moved to safer ground. He seemed 'ok' after a long
revival, but who knows ? I don't think I ever took the rod out of
it's case again.

I don't know about NC, but I'd think a western high country day without 1 wt
impairing wind would be a rare day, indeed. But if the rod adds pleasure
and you're not facing the problem my story points at ... enjoy G

There's practically no chance of tying into an 18" fish in the
places where I use a 1wt. As for wind, when I'm using a 1wt it's
generally from a position which is more horizontal than vertical,
that is to say I'm crawling around on my belly out of the wind
rather than standing on my feet trying to battle it.

The 1wt is certainly a very limited fly fishing tool but I find
that I use it quite a bit. That speaks more about the places I
choose to fish than it does the overall utility of the 1wt.

--
Ken Fortenberry

Larry L wrote:
"Ken Fortenberry" wrote


My 1wt has more fish landing backbone than you might think
and it's a good fishing tool for some circumstances.

--
Ken Fortenberry



thanks, Ken, that is the type fishing I assumed would be suited ....

I actually 'loved' the sweet casting little 2 wt Sage ( light Line model )
until I simply could not pull an exhausted fish up to me in Silver Creek.
It was a good fish, 18 inch or so, and I was an idiot and wore him out
BEFORE I figured out that the rod couldn't even move him, on his side,
against the current. If I had, I would have broken him off much earlier,
when he was fresh enough to survive. I was afraid to try landing without
the cushion of the rod, break the tippet after he was exhausted and he was a
dead trout. The water he was in was deep and the bottom dangerously
silty ( if you've been there you know what I mean ) so going to him was ...
literally dangerous ... but that is what I finally did ..... shipping a
little water over the waders and praying I'd not get stuck until I got him
in the net and moved to safer ground. He seemed 'ok' after a long
revival, but who knows ? I don't think I ever took the rod out of
it's case again.

I don't know about NC, but I'd think a western high country day without 1 wt
impairing wind would be a rare day, indeed. But if the rod adds pleasure
and you're not facing the problem my story points at ... enjoy G

I'd like to get your opinions about this web site, and this gentleman's
opinions on using ultralight fly gear.

http://www.byrdultrafly.com/ultramain.htm

FWIW, I own a 0wt flyrod for the small creeks in my area. I would not
think of using it, where I might run into a decent(14"-16")size, wild trout.

brians

"brians" wrote


I'd like to get your opinions about this web site, and this gentleman's
opinions on using ultralight fly gear.

http://www.byrdultrafly.com/ultramain.htm



I looked at a couple of the pages, will look more later

First thoughts?

This guy needs to study HTML G

Why does an ultralight fan like huge type ?

Why does he have such a big chip on his shoulder?

A defensive attack posture is almost never one that makes it easy to believe
and trust it's owner.



----------------

In what I read, the guy's major point is that the maximum amount you can
pressure a fish is based on tippet size, not rod weight ... I agree,
but,
with modern 7X (smallest I ever use ) I can put a big bend and lots of butt
into my Sage 4wt XP .... MUCH more real lifting power than that old 2 wt in
my story ever generated .. it just bent until you were worried IT would
bust ... maybe a state of the art 0 wt can lift enough to static break 7X,
if not it is NOT allowing as much pressure on the fish as a rod that can
...even with 7X.

He implies that "skilled, knowledgable, anglers" can pressure a fish more
with light tackle because they aren't worried about busting the tippet.

I'd ask, "Doesn't skill and knowledge" include a feel that allows the angler
to moderate the pressure on the fish near the tippet strength? does skill
imply tools that do it for you or well ... skill ? Isn't one of the main
appeal of fly fishing removing the mechanical crap between you and your fish
and making your 'feel' the real tool, not gears or endlessly bending
graphite? " Regardless, see my first point, actually his point reversed
.... he says a heavy rod doesn't help unless you use heavy tippet ... I
suggest a rod that is "too light" for your tippet is a recipe for over
stressed fish ...especially when using small tippet.

Note: My story was back when I honestly believed you HAD to use 7X to fool
Silver Creek fish. I often us 5X now and only rarely 7X and I catch a LOT
more fish than back then. IF over stressing fish is a concern ( I believe
it should be ) than fishing 7X with a 2 wt that makes busting it nearly
impossible can be seen as avoiding improving one's skills, NOT as skill

---------------------------

He says that lighter rods are as easy and more comfortable to cast than
heavier ones ... I agree. He notes that big, wind resistent flies need
more casting power and so do I. But for normal length casts and smallish
flies a 2 or 3 wt is a delight ( I've never tried lighter rods )
......unless the wind comes up .. a near certainty where I fish.

------------------------------


He and others imply that the fight is more fun on a lighter rod ... I
disagree.

Sorry folks, but it ain't a 'fight' if the conclusion is a given. That is
why the 'fight' is largely pretty damn boring and anticlimactic, regardless
of tackle. The exceptions to 'boring' are when the outcome is NOT certain
and that demands a big fish. With average fish, a light rod extends the
time the boredom lasts, but doesn't often actually give the fish a better
chance. Anybody that hasn't experienced feeling, "Hurry up and get in
here fish, I want to move on" while engaged in the 'fight' hasn't fished
much. Dragging it out ain't always making it better. IF the fish is, in
fact, a big one, than knowing the extra time your baby rod and tiny tippet
is using up could kill that nice fish deprives ME of fun, not increases
same.

Fishing 5X and a 4 wt to Silver Creek fish DOES ( obviously my opinion, but
I've spent months of my life there over a 25 ++ year period ) require MORE
skill than 7X and a 2wt, fish for fish. To ME, the most fun in angling is
feeling competent, you all know what I mean, the days when you honestly feel
like a damn good angler, ... not .... feeling the tiddlers wiggle for longer
G

Larry L

"Larry L" wrote



bust ... maybe a state of the art 0 wt can lift enough to static break 7X,
if not it is NOT allowing as much pressure on the fish as a rod that can
..even with 7X.


I woke up in the middle of the night thinking about this and believe I may
be very wrong about a couple assumptions I made. Since it is generally
accepted ( I certainly accept it ) that not having a clue what I'm talking
about seldom stops me from chattering, that is probably no surprise.

I'm going to dig out 4 rods I seldom use ... the 2 wt from my story, a 4 wt
St Croix, a 6 wt TFO and an 8 wt Loomis ( all rods I could live without )
.... and some blocks of lead hanging around that used to anchor 747 goose
decoys rigged to float. Then I'm going to try and get a better 'feel'
for the lifting power of these rods .. compared to each other. If I break
a rod or two, ... well so be it.


( to be continued )

"Larry L" wrote in message
news

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote


My 1wt has more fish landing backbone than you might think
and it's a good fishing tool for some circumstances.

--
Ken Fortenberry


thanks, Ken, that is the type fishing I assumed would be suited ....

forty is dead on, given his environmental parameters. i have a little
7'2wt winston that i am certain would pair up just fine with a 1wt line, and
it is wonderful on our little "branches", with dry flies and 8" trout.

yfitons
wayno

I'm somewhat surprised to find that, with the rods mentioned, my original
assumptions seem to be more true than not.

If you lock the line, point the rod at the weight ( fish ) and pull back
straight you can break any tippet with any rod. You are in effect not
using the rod and simply pulling on the line.

When we intentionally point more at the fish and use the butt of the rod we
are modifying this and trying to cause the rods strongest part to bend and
pull. This is why my 2wt can and has turned big fish when they are still
well over a rod's length away, I forced the rod to bend near it's butt.
Used this way it does not bend in a tight bend, rather a large one.


But the trouble I got into with the rod was only apparent at the very end of
the fight, as I struggled to reach the fish with my net. In this posture
the rod is VERY tightly bent and I have no way ( I know of ) to force the
major forces down into the butt. In my story, a biggish fish, totally
tired, proved too much 'weight' to lift with the rod in this position.


-----------------------

Today's tests consisted of trying to break 7X ( 2.4 lb according to the
spool ) by lifting a weight straight up simulating that last part of the
fight position.

What I discovered was that it was 'impossible' to do with the 2wt. I did
not manage to break the rod but it sure felt like it might and it simply
whipped around on it's spine when I tried to lift more. The 4wt got a
good tight bend but DID lift hard enough to break the 7X, and the 6wt did so
with ease ... I was convinced so I didn't try the 8wt.


My conclusion?

Yep, light rods protect light tippets, it would be very hard to break 7X
with the 2wt in a real world fishing situation. But, since I felt at
clear risk of breaking the 2wt without even 7X busting force on it .... one
is left with the angler limiting himself because of fear of breaking the
rod, not the tippet !!! Contrary to the implications on the website
brians posted, I can't imagine that many anglers are more likely to pull a
little harder to save a fish from drawn out stress when they 'feel' the rod
is at risk, than when the tippet is at risk.

I should point out that I landed many big fish on my two weight before the
time in my story, because I could maneuver them into quiet water and not
have to fight their weight and the current both with the rod. But on the
other hand, I tend to fish slow moving waters, a big fish in a fast stream
???? I'm not betting on landing it with enough strength left to survive.

So, MY overall opinion is that ..yes, light rods are a joy to cast in
windless conditions and do make little fish feel bigger.

But I have personal doubts about having the rod be the weak link in the
angler's fighting tools. I want to be able to pull until the hook pulls
out, or the tippet breaks IF that is what I deem appropriate to the fight in
question. And ( I think this part is very important ) .... because the
rod's weakness doesn't become most obvious until the fish in close and very
tired, I'm convinced a light rod can fool you into believing it can do more
than it can ( been there done that ) "Protecting tippet" is fine but,
imho, should be an angler skill more than another way to state a rod's
limitations.



P.S. I haven't tried but I'm sure my fast 3wt would break 7X .... rod
'action' ... how far down the rod the real backbone starts ... seems a big
factor in this 'lifting' .... not just rod wt. I'm sure some rods that
cast light lines outfish others with the same "#" To those of you that
love your ultralights, I understand ( I found myself casting the 2wt around
the yard, taking pleasure in how light it is ) and think it just fine, in
their place .... but beware of the limitations ...

Larry L wrote:
I'm somewhat surprised to find that, with the rods mentioned, my original
assumptions seem to be more true than not.

If you lock the line, point the rod at the weight ( fish ) and pull back
straight you can break any tippet with any rod. You are in effect not
using the rod and simply pulling on the line.

When we intentionally point more at the fish and use the butt of the rod we
are modifying this and trying to cause the rods strongest part to bend and
pull. This is why my 2wt can and has turned big fish when they are still
well over a rod's length away, I forced the rod to bend near it's butt.
Used this way it does not bend in a tight bend, rather a large one.


But the trouble I got into with the rod was only apparent at the very end of
the fight, as I struggled to reach the fish with my net. In this posture
the rod is VERY tightly bent and I have no way ( I know of ) to force the
major forces down into the butt. In my story, a biggish fish, totally
tired, proved too much 'weight' to lift with the rod in this position.


-----------------------

Today's tests consisted of trying to break 7X ( 2.4 lb according to the
spool ) by lifting a weight straight up simulating that last part of the
fight position.

What I discovered was that it was 'impossible' to do with the 2wt. I did
not manage to break the rod but it sure felt like it might and it simply
whipped around on it's spine when I tried to lift more. The 4wt got a
good tight bend but DID lift hard enough to break the 7X, and the 6wt did so
with ease ... I was convinced so I didn't try the 8wt.


My conclusion?

Yep, light rods protect light tippets, it would be very hard to break 7X
with the 2wt in a real world fishing situation. But, since I felt at
clear risk of breaking the 2wt without even 7X busting force on it .... one
is left with the angler limiting himself because of fear of breaking the
rod, not the tippet !!! Contrary to the implications on the website
brians posted, I can't imagine that many anglers are more likely to pull a
little harder to save a fish from drawn out stress when they 'feel' the rod
is at risk, than when the tippet is at risk.

I should point out that I landed many big fish on my two weight before the
time in my story, because I could maneuver them into quiet water and not
have to fight their weight and the current both with the rod. But on the
other hand, I tend to fish slow moving waters, a big fish in a fast stream
???? I'm not betting on landing it with enough strength left to survive.

So, MY overall opinion is that ..yes, light rods are a joy to cast in
windless conditions and do make little fish feel bigger.

But I have personal doubts about having the rod be the weak link in the
angler's fighting tools. I want to be able to pull until the hook pulls
out, or the tippet breaks IF that is what I deem appropriate to the fight in
question. And ( I think this part is very important ) .... because the
rod's weakness doesn't become most obvious until the fish in close and very
tired, I'm convinced a light rod can fool you into believing it can do more
than it can ( been there done that ) "Protecting tippet" is fine but,
imho, should be an angler skill more than another way to state a rod's
limitations.



P.S. I haven't tried but I'm sure my fast 3wt would break 7X .... rod
'action' ... how far down the rod the real backbone starts ... seems a big
factor in this 'lifting' .... not just rod wt. I'm sure some rods that
cast light lines outfish others with the same "#" To those of you that
love your ultralights, I understand ( I found myself casting the 2wt around
the yard, taking pleasure in how light it is ) and think it just fine, in
their place .... but beware of the limitations ...



Larry,

I didn't mean for you to go to all of this work. ;-) FYI, not long ago,
the same discussion(on another forum)came up about ultralight rods,
tippet breaking points, and lifting power. Results were very much what
you experienced. The only difference was, the testers used 4X. No one
could break 4X by lifting a weight with a rod....or at least they didn't
want to lift hard enough, for fear of using the rod's warranty. No one
could lift a 4 lb weight off the floor with a 2wt(?)or lighter rod.

Mr. Byrd has some strong opinions about lightweight gear. He seems to
have his followers, but i'm not one of them. ;-)

I have one of the new Sage TXL 0wt rods. By far, it's the lightest fly
rod i've ever held. Surprisingly, it has some power in the lower half of
the rod, and can cast up to a 2wt line comfortably.....I assume so, but
I didn't ask the rod. ;-) It's a joy to cast, and land _small_ trout on.

brians

Larry L wrote:
I'm somewhat surprised to find that, with the rods mentioned, my original
assumptions seem to be more true than not.

If you lock the line, point the rod at the weight ( fish ) and pull back
straight you can break any tippet with any rod. You are in effect not
using the rod and simply pulling on the line.

When we intentionally point more at the fish and use the butt of the rod we
are modifying this and trying to cause the rods strongest part to bend and
pull. This is why my 2wt can and has turned big fish when they are still
well over a rod's length away, I forced the rod to bend near it's butt.
Used this way it does not bend in a tight bend, rather a large one.


But the trouble I got into with the rod was only apparent at the very end of
the fight, as I struggled to reach the fish with my net. In this posture
the rod is VERY tightly bent and I have no way ( I know of ) to force the
major forces down into the butt. In my story, a biggish fish, totally
tired, proved too much 'weight' to lift with the rod in this position.


-----------------------

Today's tests consisted of trying to break 7X ( 2.4 lb according to the
spool ) by lifting a weight straight up simulating that last part of the
fight position.

What I discovered was that it was 'impossible' to do with the 2wt. I did
not manage to break the rod but it sure felt like it might and it simply
whipped around on it's spine when I tried to lift more. The 4wt got a
good tight bend but DID lift hard enough to break the 7X, and the 6wt did so
with ease ... I was convinced so I didn't try the 8wt.


My conclusion?

Yep, light rods protect light tippets, it would be very hard to break 7X
with the 2wt in a real world fishing situation. But, since I felt at
clear risk of breaking the 2wt without even 7X busting force on it .... one
is left with the angler limiting himself because of fear of breaking the
rod, not the tippet !!! Contrary to the implications on the website
brians posted, I can't imagine that many anglers are more likely to pull a
little harder to save a fish from drawn out stress when they 'feel' the rod
is at risk, than when the tippet is at risk.

I should point out that I landed many big fish on my two weight before the
time in my story, because I could maneuver them into quiet water and not
have to fight their weight and the current both with the rod. But on the
other hand, I tend to fish slow moving waters, a big fish in a fast stream
???? I'm not betting on landing it with enough strength left to survive.

So, MY overall opinion is that ..yes, light rods are a joy to cast in
windless conditions and do make little fish feel bigger.

But I have personal doubts about having the rod be the weak link in the
angler's fighting tools. I want to be able to pull until the hook pulls
out, or the tippet breaks IF that is what I deem appropriate to the fight in
question. And ( I think this part is very important ) .... because the
rod's weakness doesn't become most obvious until the fish in close and very
tired, I'm convinced a light rod can fool you into believing it can do more
than it can ( been there done that ) "Protecting tippet" is fine but,
imho, should be an angler skill more than another way to state a rod's
limitations.



P.S. I haven't tried but I'm sure my fast 3wt would break 7X .... rod
'action' ... how far down the rod the real backbone starts ... seems a big
factor in this 'lifting' .... not just rod wt. I'm sure some rods that
cast light lines outfish others with the same "#" To those of you that
love your ultralights, I understand ( I found myself casting the 2wt around
the yard, taking pleasure in how light it is ) and think it just fine, in
their place .... but beware of the limitations ...



Interesting observation. I'd rather spare the rod and spoil the tippet.
But its nice to know how much to "rod" before the tippet gives up.

The dead-lift test helps in the understanding of how much a rod will
flex before the tippet gives up. I think the test does not represent
the real-world conditions that include line drag in the water or the
shock of a fish thrashing around. It also does not address knot
strength at the fly or the leader.

I only rarely use lighter than 5X and have "horsed-in" fish with 2 wt.
through 5 wt. rods (with 5X tippet). I'd prefer that they fight and
tire a little bit so that they don't thrash about so much while getting
the hook out.

Chip

"brians" wrote


I didn't mean for you to go to all of this work. ;-)



hehe, I did it because you got me thinking, and for that I thank you



FWIW, I put the 2wt back in my trailer ( storage spot for actually used
fishing tackle ) instead of the shop after casting it around the yard.
It's so light ... even compared to a 4wt XP ..... on windy days when a 6wt
Steffen comes out for duty it feels like it weights 15 pounds in my hand,
one reason I don't like wind G

.... I can't imagine how light a 0wt must be and don't dare pick one up to
find out ... being a sucker in the wallet for all things fly fishery G

I found that I stressed out any fish I landed w a 1 wt
It was a great fight but the fish was beat and orobably died after I release
him.
O alos do notfish for panfish

So If anyone wants to buy an orvis 1 wt outfit
I am done with it
Pls contact me

Fred