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  #1  
Old May 24th, 2004, 07:15 AM
Bill Kiene
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Default Fishing Hooks

Hi All U ROFFers,

At one time O. Mustad & Son of Norway 'owned' the fly hook market in the
USA. When I started in this business in 1965 we bragged about actually
having Mustad hooks in the big sporting goods store I worked for.

Then along came the Japanese hooks (TMC imported by Umpqua) and took that
market away from them. Now Mustad and Eagle Claw hook companies are trying
to play catch up but it is pretty tough now that there are a half dozen good
brands of Japanese hooks.

Actually the Japanese hook companies pretty much took all the fishing hook
business in the USA.

The Japanese hooks are sharper with hard metal with smaller barbs and
smaller better formed eyes.

You will always have people that will argue anything for the sake of
auguring.

Also there are those who will always want to buy the cheaper products and
try to convince themselves and others that the 'good stuff' is really just a
capitalist plot to get all your money. har har.........

My business is supply and demand so we don't carry any Mustad hooks except a
few old traditional salt water hooks for people on a budget. At one time we
had 95% Mustad, now we are ~5% Mustad. In the real world the customers
decide what you carry and if you don't follow that you will be history. I
have about $30,000 invested in a network of computers, software and training
with Retail Pro point of sale software to tell me these things.

Like I said before, my opinion means nothing, but my customers' opinions do.
Our only decision at the shop is what new products to put in stock then
customers take over after that.

The good thing is after all is said and done, you can do what ever you want
and it is OK.

"Four................."

--
Bill "Full of Bull" Kiene

Kiene's "BS" Fly Shop
Goofsville, OK, USA

Web site: www.kiene.com



  #2  
Old May 24th, 2004, 02:45 PM
bruiser
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Default Fishing Hooks

I agree.

bruce h


  #3  
Old May 24th, 2004, 05:23 PM
Warren
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Default Fishing Hooks

wrote...
I agree.


With what?
--
Warren
(use troutbum_mt on either yahoo or earthlink to respond via email)
  #4  
Old May 24th, 2004, 05:35 PM
Mike Connor
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Default Fishing Hooks


"Bill Kiene" wrote in message
. ..
Hi All U ROFFers,

At one time O. Mustad & Son of Norway 'owned' the fly hook market in the
USA. When I started in this business in 1965 we bragged about actually
having Mustad hooks in the big sporting goods store I worked for.



Quite right, the same situation pertained in Europe as well, with the
exception of one or two English hookmakers Mustad was the "only game in
town". I still have a fairly large selection of Mustads, at one time the
3904A was "the" standard wet fly hook. They were good hooks, and they never
let me down. Metallurgy and manufacturing techniques have improved very
considerably in the meantime, so it is rather surprising that Mustad did not
manage to maintain their "almost" monopoly.

In my opinion, there are now far too many hooks on the market, and they are
also far too expensive. But thatīs how it goes! When I first started, 100
boxes were normal, and many people bought 1000 boxes of hooks. Now you are
lucky if you can find a package with more than ten or at the most 25 hooks
in it. The packaging now costs more than the contents.

Japanese hooks are for the most part very good quality, although as Bill
says, some tend towards being rather brittle. This is more than likely due
to over-tempering. They seem to like "harder" hooks.

TL
MC


  #5  
Old May 24th, 2004, 10:37 PM
bassrecord
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Default Fishing Hooks

Mike I agree with your observations. You are right on! There are too many
of the wrong kind of hooks on the market today.

More that ten years before Bill started in his business, Mustad did NOT own
the popping bug hook market in the U.S. Several French and United Kingdom
firms sold inverted 'U' hump and 'S' hump bronzed hooks. I think they were
available in a range of sizes up to 4/0 and to 4X longs. It is sad that
today only the Mustad 33903 is still widely available and Mustad has dropped
their larger sizes.

Besides being unduly high priced the Mustad and other brands of salt water
stainless steel hooks are far too heavy for freshwater bass fishing as they
require more buoyancy in the popper body to offset their weight. The
proportions are off due to the excess weight. Sadly there are too few
options so we have to use them. All we need it to have HEAVIER popping bugs
hit us in the back of the head. g

Thank goodness they are too brittle also. All we need besides them hitting
the back of our head is for them to stick in our neck!

Good luck!
John

"Mike Connor" wrote in message
...

"Bill Kiene" wrote in message
. ..
Hi All U ROFFers,

At one time O. Mustad & Son of Norway 'owned' the fly hook market in the
USA. When I started in this business in 1965 we bragged about actually
having Mustad hooks in the big sporting goods store I worked for.



Quite right, the same situation pertained in Europe as well, with the
exception of one or two English hookmakers Mustad was the "only game in
town". I still have a fairly large selection of Mustads, at one time the
3904A was "the" standard wet fly hook. They were good hooks, and they

never
let me down. Metallurgy and manufacturing techniques have improved very
considerably in the meantime, so it is rather surprising that Mustad did

not
manage to maintain their "almost" monopoly.

In my opinion, there are now far too many hooks on the market, and they

are
also far too expensive. But thatīs how it goes! When I first started, 100
boxes were normal, and many people bought 1000 boxes of hooks. Now you

are
lucky if you can find a package with more than ten or at the most 25 hooks
in it. The packaging now costs more than the contents.

Japanese hooks are for the most part very good quality, although as Bill
says, some tend towards being rather brittle. This is more than likely due
to over-tempering. They seem to like "harder" hooks.

TL
MC




  #6  
Old May 25th, 2004, 02:01 AM
bruiser
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Default Fishing Hooks


"Warren" wrote in message
...
wrote...
I agree.


With what?


Oh, most all of it. Mostly I'm just a smart ass.

bruce h :-)


  #7  
Old May 25th, 2004, 02:11 AM
Mu Young Lee
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Default Fishing Hooks

On Mon, 24 May 2004, bassrecord wrote:

Besides being unduly high priced the Mustad and other brands of salt water
stainless steel hooks are far too heavy for freshwater bass fishing as they
require more buoyancy in the popper body to offset their weight.


You need to find a better source of hooks. The advantage of the expensive
Japanese hooks is that they are available in light wire diameters even in
large hook gap sizes. The Mustad 3407 is much heavier than Gamakatsu or
Dai-Ichi hooks.

Mu
  #8  
Old May 25th, 2004, 06:06 PM
fish.iddx.net
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Default Fishing Hooks

I am guessing - they
have to carry a much wider variety than they used to
and many tyers won't bother purchasing large quantities
of any single hook.



Sounds very reasonable, and is most likely the answer.

/Thomas


  #9  
Old May 25th, 2004, 08:53 PM
Sierra fisher
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Default Fishing Hooks

another possibility is that the fly shop makes about 4 times as much money
selling you 4 packs of 25 vs 1 pack of 100.

--


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"fish.iddx.net" wrote in message
...
I am guessing - they
have to carry a much wider variety than they used to
and many tyers won't bother purchasing large quantities
of any single hook.



Sounds very reasonable, and is most likely the answer.

/Thomas




  #10  
Old May 25th, 2004, 11:28 PM
Mike Connor
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Posts: n/a
Default Fishing Hooks


"Greg Pavlov" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 24 May 2004 18:35:36 +0200, "Mike Connor"
wrote:

When I first started, 100
boxes were normal, and many people bought 1000 boxes of hooks. Now you

are
lucky if you can find a package with more than ten or at the most 25

hooks
in it. The packaging now costs more than the contents.



In general the shops I go to carry the small packages
but they will order large volume packs as well, at a
significantly lower cost per hook. I suspect that one
reason shops do this is that - I am guessing - they
have to carry a much wider variety than they used to
and many tyers won't bother purchasing large quantities
of any single hook.


Sounds like a logical reason. Most flydressers I knew ( long ago of course,
I am getting old), only used two or three hook patterns at most. Some (
although very few) made their own. Shops I frequented had maybe four or
five patterns at the outside. We caught plenty of fish on these. Fishhooks
are the result of thousands of years of development, indeed, we westerners,
( Angels, or Angles, as opposed to Saxons or Sachsens),have our name to
thank for this development

Oddly enough, I looked at one of my logbook entries for 1971 today, and
noted that several people were then complaining about the rising cost of
hooks! What many people fail to realise, is that good hooks were always a
comparatively expensive item. Although compared to the total cost of
fishing, the price is still negligible. Really good handmade hooks, ( which
were, and still are, the best), were always relatively expensive.

Nowadays, practically all hooks are machine made, and are for the most part,
nevertheless excellent.

Being obliged to stay at home just now, ( I have a terrible flu), but not
being inclined to stay in bed all the time, I repaired one of my competition
rifles ( which a friend had dropped and damaged) and I then got out some of
my old hook jigs, and made up 300 hooks on Sunday. I will japan some of
them, and bronze a few more, and blue some others ( this is a type of cold
varnishing, blueing is also oftem used on various weapons), and of course I
will eventually tie flies on them.

I tell myself that this is merely to "keep my hand in", but it is
fascinating in itself. There is something about making oneīs own tackle
which adds untold dimensions to fishing. I wish I could find a reliable
method for plaiting and dressing a a good line, and then I would have made
everything! Unfortunately it is still impossible to find out some secrets.
Or perhaps it is just as well?

Whatever. There is no need for all these hook patterns and types. But this
is the modern way. Not all that long ago, I had a few people here for a
flydressing session, and one of the guys said "But thatīs not right. Itīs
the wrong hook! "So and so", says in his book that " "$%&&$§$ Nr 15678956
MUST be used, or it wont work". I felt rather sorry for him.

I somehow doubt that the fish care at all.

TL
MC


 




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