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Scouting the river (U.S.)



 
 
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  #1  
Old April 11th, 2004, 09:15 AM
Pepperoni
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Posts: n/a
Default Scouting the river (U.S.)

http://home.comcast.net/~thuxton/bankside.jpg
I lost a good stretch of river this year to a construction project.Access to
the paved bicycle path is blocked by a fence as they landscape for the new
hi-rise apartment building. It isn't a big problem, as the river winds for
miles through the center of town; I am just unfamiliar with most of it.
The river is historically prone to flooding, so it remains undeveloped,
except for parks and trails. The part that I explored today is wild and
overgrown. Hundred year old sycamores stand half in the water, with thick
exposed roots twisted high into the bank. There is a mere hint of a path
along the bank, what we might call a "game trail" in the northern woods. It
was hard to wind my way down the trail with my 6 foot rod; branches have
grown across the track. It will be hard travel once the leaves grow out. I
suppose I will need to cut my way through next time to make summer fishing
easier. I can tell the area is little used by the lack of trash and litter.
There were 5 beer bottles beside the railway bridge on the way in, then
nothing. I'll go in by another route next time. I'm looking for a sandy
bottomed run, today's stretch was fist sized gravel; fine for smallmouth but
not ideal for the carping. I saw one large swirl today, so the carp are in
the river, but probably not in their full numbers. When the weather warms,
they come out of the large impoundment a mile to the south.

A hundred yards along the river, and I was in thick bush. Finger-thick
saplings are most common; the taller old trees probably prevent a great
deal of light penetration in summer. There are plenty of places to tie up a
rope or pole to hang my tarp for a rain shelter. There is not a house in
sight., a chain link fence is on the high bank on the other side of the
river, there won't be much traffic over there. Moss is deep and unworn on
the roots and bank. I saw raccoon and skunk tracks in the mud, and a
woodpecker tap-tap-tapping in the top of a tall dead snag. Three ten inch
suckers lay in the sandy shallows under the railway bridge. To the south,
beyond the bridge is the soccer field, but passage under the bridge is not
possible, so the hikers won't be up this way.

The bus line runs for about 15 miles along the river, with service every 20
or 30 minutes in both directions. I can fish the best water in the county
with a back pack and a pocket full of bus tokens. Most of it (except for
parks and bike paths) is unused and undeveloped. Many years ago, the fish
hatchery upstream flooded and all their stock was released into the river.
Many species did not reproduce, but some species not normally stocked here
took up permanent residence. We have striped bass hybrids, channel cat
(which averaged 32 inches last year for me), muskies, pike, walleye, superb
smallmouth, and white bass. Sections of the river are divided by dams and
some sections are designated trout water (salmon) and others are
catch-and-release. This part of the river connects to a 2000+ acre lake
which produces huge seasonal runs of spawning fish. Channel cats sweep the
entire section each night. Walleye are the main prize in the lake, but they
hang in the river section, too. Huge muskie and pike live off the walleyes
and smallmouth.

I'm just lucky, I guess. I live 3 blocks from a great unused fishery. I'll
post some pictures when things get going. The carp will follow the suckers
up the river in about 3 weeks. The water temp is about 42 degrees, but it
won't take long. Soon the carp will be rolling and splashing around. In
summer they hang in the current in packs of about a dozen. Baiting is
rare here. There is no need. River carp stay lean and strong. When you
toss a tasty bait, you can see them searching. When a carp misses your bait
and loses the scent, you can see him going downstream to pick up the scent
again. I had a 25 pounder make three round trips before he found my bait. I
mostly use frozen corn for carp bait, but they often take a crawler when I
am looking for walleye or smallmouth. (what a thrill--- biggest bass in the
lake ??). I use hot dog slices for the channel cats, but that bait draws
soft shelled turtles like a magnet. I usually switch to hot dog at dark,
but carp will take those too.

Take care, have a good season.


Pepperoni



  #2  
Old April 11th, 2004, 03:29 PM
Derek.Moody
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Posts: n/a
Default Scouting the river (U.S.)

In article , Pepperoni
wrote:

Somewhat OT here - being a UK group. However:

exposed roots twisted high into the bank. There is a mere hint of a path
along the bank, what we might call a "game trail" in the northern woods. It
was hard to wind my way down the trail with my 6 foot rod; branches have
grown across the track. It will be hard travel once the leaves grow out. I


With overgrown banks you'll find a longer rod to be of great assistance,
especially when working around or through overhanging vegetation. Even in
this sort of terrain it should be easy enough to manhandle a ten or twelve
footer. Bring the hook back to the reel and secure it, then carry the rod
butt first, the tip will mostly look after itself.

Cheerio,

--


  #3  
Old April 11th, 2004, 04:31 PM
Pepperoni
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Posts: n/a
Default Scouting the river (U.S.)


"Derek.Moody" wrote in message
...

Somewhat OT here - being a UK group. However:


The carp are similar, even if our fishing methods differ wildly.



exposed roots twisted high into the bank. There is a mere hint of a

path
along the bank, what we might call a "game trail" in the northern woods.

It
was hard to wind my way down the trail with my 6 foot rod; branches

have
grown across the track. It will be hard travel once the leaves grow

out. I

With overgrown banks you'll find a longer rod to be of great assistance,
especially when working around or through overhanging vegetation. Even in
this sort of terrain it should be easy enough to manhandle a ten or twelve
footer. Bring the hook back to the reel and secure it, then carry the rod
butt first, the tip will mostly look after itself.


Actually, I made my 6 footer from the tip section of a 12 foot ultralight
graphite "noodle" rod. I use 20# spiderwire on an old Mitchell ultralight
reel. It's a seeming mismatched rig, but I need the heavy line to turn the
big ones. It will bend at the handle to point straight at the fish with the
drag singing. Usually if I can turn them to run upstream, I can let the
fish relax and he will hang almost motionless in the current, and I can draw
him closer slowly. The banks aren't really heavily overgrown, but there
isn't really room for a back-cast. Overhead is limited, too. I do well with
an underhanded flip; I can toss the width of the river when the water is
low. My biggest problem is the huge trees growing half in the water. They
are too large to reach around, and I can't travel up or down stream
following the fish. This may change in summer with reduced flow; I may be
able to walk around the trees on the exposed stream bed. I'm not familiar
with this part of the river, and it isn't ideal for my method. I'm looking
for a sandy bar to lay my bait across. This part is better suited to a
spinnerbait, or a minnow or leech floated under a quill.




  #4  
Old April 11th, 2004, 07:22 PM
Derek.Moody
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Scouting the river (U.S.)

In article , Pepperoni
wrote:

"Derek.Moody" wrote in message
...

Somewhat OT here - being a UK group. However:


The carp are similar, even if our fishing methods differ wildly.


Don't tell the fanatics but the same methods work worldwide - even in the
UK. It's just that manufacturers make more money out of high-tech solutions
to invented problems.

With overgrown banks you'll find a longer rod to be of great assistance,
especially when working around or through overhanging vegetation. Even in


Actually, I made my 6 footer from the tip section of a 12 foot ultralight
graphite "noodle" rod. I use 20# spiderwire on an old Mitchell ultralight
reel. It's a seeming mismatched rig, but I need the heavy line to turn the
big ones. It will bend at the handle to point straight at the fish with the


Makes sense, but a longer rod will help a deal with controlling fish.

drag singing. Usually if I can turn them to run upstream, I can let the
fish relax and he will hang almost motionless in the current, and I can draw
him closer slowly. The banks aren't really heavily overgrown, but there
isn't really room for a back-cast. Overhead is limited, too. I do well with
an underhanded flip; I can toss the width of the river when the water is
low. My biggest problem is the huge trees growing half in the water. They
are too large to reach around, and I can't travel up or down stream


Maybe even longer..?

You don't say how fast the water is but in general if yu can get a fish to
work hard upstream of you, you have the beating of him. The trick is to
bring him in before he is completely exhausted as a big dead-weight in a
strong current is pretty well unmanageable.

Cheerio,

--


  #5  
Old April 11th, 2004, 11:53 PM
Pepperoni
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Posts: n/a
Default Scouting the river (U.S.)


"Derek.Moody" wrote in message
...

The carp are similar, even if our fishing methods differ wildly.


Don't tell the fanatics but the same methods work worldwide - even in the
UK. It's just that manufacturers make more money out of high-tech

solutions
to invented problems.


They make huge money from low tech solutions, too. The fishing philosophy
here is apparently counter to your own. It is illegal to release a carp in
some states, and you'll be verbally abused by other fishermen in others.
Here, carp are perceived as a problem rather than a resource.

I have seen them treated as hand fed pets, though. There was a fancy
restaurant on a large lake just south of here. I had heard of the place and
when a bread man dumped his out of date load in a dumpster one holiday
weekend, I took about 50 bags of bread and buns over there. The carp had
learned to come to the sound of others slurping the bread from the surface.
Imagine the sight of 300+ 20 pounders rising to take bread from the surface.
It looked like a log jam. thats about 3 tons of fish surfaced at one time.
Quite a tourist attraction, eh? They had "No Fishing" signs on the dock,
but once the carp are trained to that, I'm sure they would fall for it at
other sites around the lake. A piece of white foam with brown stripes would
make a good "artificial", eh?



You don't say how fast the water is but in general if yu can get a fish to
work hard upstream of you, you have the beating of him. The trick is to
bring him in before he is completely exhausted as a big dead-weight in a
strong current is pretty well unmanageable.


The "unmanageable" ones are the ones that make their first run hard
down-current. That's when you MUST stop them. A dead weight in current is
not much compared to one swimming hard down current. You can feel them
slowing and then turning slowly. That's the first sign that you may be able
to land him. Once you get him turned upstream, you have him under control.
By then he is way down stream and if you ease up he will relax and move up
slowly. Then is the time to start him toward you; if he does make another
hard run, he will likely swim himself onto the bank. If you can get him
shallow enough to beach himself, he's helpless.


  #6  
Old April 12th, 2004, 12:30 PM
Derek.Moody
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Scouting the river (U.S.)

In article , Pepperoni
wrote:

"Derek.Moody" wrote in message
...

The carp are similar, even if our fishing methods differ wildly.


Don't tell the fanatics but the same methods work worldwide - even in the
UK. It's just that manufacturers make more money out of high-tech

solutions
to invented problems.


They make huge money from low tech solutions, too. The fishing philosophy
here is apparently counter to your own. It is illegal to release a carp in
some states, and you'll be verbally abused by other fishermen in others.
Here, carp are perceived as a problem rather than a resource.


Not surprised. With global warming and hotter summers they are likely to
become a problem here too.

I have seen them treated as hand fed pets, though. There was a fancy
restaurant on a large lake just south of here. I had heard of the place and
when a bread man dumped his out of date load in a dumpster one holiday
weekend, I took about 50 bags of bread and buns over there. The carp had
learned to come to the sound of others slurping the bread from the surface.
Imagine the sight of 300+ 20 pounders rising to take bread from the surface.
It looked like a log jam. thats about 3 tons of fish surfaced at one time.


There's a pond about 15 miles north of here that has a similar reputation.
The locals feed the carp as a recreation, as you walk up to the bank the fish
swarm towards you just in case you are about to feed them. I have never
been tempted to fish there.

Quite a tourist attraction, eh? They had "No Fishing" signs on the dock,
but once the carp are trained to that, I'm sure they would fall for it at
other sites around the lake. A piece of white foam with brown stripes would
make a good "artificial", eh?


I've not tried with foam though as you say it might work well; I would
expect it to be tricky to cast. I have has a little success with a white
deer hair blob tied up like the head of a muddler minnow without the rest of
the fly.

The "unmanageable" ones are the ones that make their first run hard
down-current. That's when you MUST stop them. A dead weight in current is
not much compared to one swimming hard down current. You can feel them
slowing and then turning slowly. That's the first sign that you may be able
to land him. Once you get him turned upstream, you have him under control.


You have two options:

If a carp is held hard it will kite around until it meets the bank and then
turn and go back the other way - ease off a little and it'll keep pulling
that way as long as you want - carp never really fight, they just pull hard.

By then he is way down stream and if you ease up he will relax and move up
slowly. Then is the time to start him toward you; if he does make another


And this is a version of the salmon anglers last resort with a really big
fish. -IF- the fish will slow for even a moment throw some loose line into
the current; add something to slide along the line if you can. The resultng
pull is now downstream due the bow in the line in the current and the fish
is quite likely to oppose the gentle pull and run upstream. Once moving you
apply enough light pressure to keep it going until it's in a position for
you to resume the fight on your terms.

Cheerio,

--


  #7  
Old April 14th, 2004, 12:47 AM
Jim Murray
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Scouting the river (U.S.)

Sounds like great fishing, Pepperoni. What part of the US are you in? Have
fished for carp in Illinois, Ohio & Wisconsin, happy times.

Jim.

"Pepperoni" wrote in message
...
http://home.comcast.net/~thuxton/bankside.jpg
I lost a good stretch of river this year to a construction project.Access

to
the paved bicycle path is blocked by a fence as they landscape for the new
hi-rise apartment building. It isn't a big problem, as the river winds

for
miles through the center of town; I am just unfamiliar with most of it.
The river is historically prone to flooding, so it remains undeveloped,
except for parks and trails. The part that I explored today is wild and
overgrown. Hundred year old sycamores stand half in the water, with thick
exposed roots twisted high into the bank. There is a mere hint of a path
along the bank, what we might call a "game trail" in the northern woods.

It
was hard to wind my way down the trail with my 6 foot rod; branches have
grown across the track. It will be hard travel once the leaves grow out.

I
suppose I will need to cut my way through next time to make summer fishing
easier. I can tell the area is little used by the lack of trash and

litter.
There were 5 beer bottles beside the railway bridge on the way in, then
nothing. I'll go in by another route next time. I'm looking for a sandy
bottomed run, today's stretch was fist sized gravel; fine for smallmouth

but
not ideal for the carping. I saw one large swirl today, so the carp are

in
the river, but probably not in their full numbers. When the weather

warms,
they come out of the large impoundment a mile to the south.

A hundred yards along the river, and I was in thick bush. Finger-thick
saplings are most common; the taller old trees probably prevent a great
deal of light penetration in summer. There are plenty of places to tie up

a
rope or pole to hang my tarp for a rain shelter. There is not a house in
sight., a chain link fence is on the high bank on the other side of the
river, there won't be much traffic over there. Moss is deep and unworn on
the roots and bank. I saw raccoon and skunk tracks in the mud, and a
woodpecker tap-tap-tapping in the top of a tall dead snag. Three ten inch
suckers lay in the sandy shallows under the railway bridge. To the south,
beyond the bridge is the soccer field, but passage under the bridge is not
possible, so the hikers won't be up this way.

The bus line runs for about 15 miles along the river, with service every

20
or 30 minutes in both directions. I can fish the best water in the county
with a back pack and a pocket full of bus tokens. Most of it (except for
parks and bike paths) is unused and undeveloped. Many years ago, the

fish
hatchery upstream flooded and all their stock was released into the river.
Many species did not reproduce, but some species not normally stocked here
took up permanent residence. We have striped bass hybrids, channel cat
(which averaged 32 inches last year for me), muskies, pike, walleye,

superb
smallmouth, and white bass. Sections of the river are divided by dams and
some sections are designated trout water (salmon) and others are
catch-and-release. This part of the river connects to a 2000+ acre lake
which produces huge seasonal runs of spawning fish. Channel cats sweep

the
entire section each night. Walleye are the main prize in the lake, but

they
hang in the river section, too. Huge muskie and pike live off the

walleyes
and smallmouth.

I'm just lucky, I guess. I live 3 blocks from a great unused fishery.

I'll
post some pictures when things get going. The carp will follow the

suckers
up the river in about 3 weeks. The water temp is about 42 degrees, but it
won't take long. Soon the carp will be rolling and splashing around. In
summer they hang in the current in packs of about a dozen. Baiting is
rare here. There is no need. River carp stay lean and strong. When you
toss a tasty bait, you can see them searching. When a carp misses your

bait
and loses the scent, you can see him going downstream to pick up the scent
again. I had a 25 pounder make three round trips before he found my bait.

I
mostly use frozen corn for carp bait, but they often take a crawler when

I
am looking for walleye or smallmouth. (what a thrill--- biggest bass in

the
lake ??). I use hot dog slices for the channel cats, but that bait draws
soft shelled turtles like a magnet. I usually switch to hot dog at dark,
but carp will take those too.

Take care, have a good season.


Pepperoni





  #8  
Old April 14th, 2004, 05:32 AM
Pepperoni
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Scouting the river (U.S.)

"Jim Murray" wrote in message
...
Sounds like great fishing, Pepperoni. What part of the US are you in? Have
fished for carp in Illinois, Ohio & Wisconsin, happy times.

Jim.


It's the Huron River above Ford Lake in Ypsilanti, Mi., but it's easier to
say Ann Arbor, and folks don't ask how you spell it (or what it means).
Great fishing, but so much water that none of it gets worked very hard. The
Huron contains trophy Musky, walleye, smallmouth and channel cats, as well
as striper hybred and salmon below Belleville. (fairly new fish ladder at
Flat Rock) They are a little pressed for space because of the high density
of carp, but they manage. The river side is not highly developed because it
is prone to flooding and in many places you will find it overgrown and slow
traveling. Parks, paved trails and access points line the trail in some
areas. Fishing the first highway bridge above Ford Lake is especially
convenient, having a wide pedestrian walk on either side. Night fishing
here produces huge stringers of channel cats averaging about 32 inches.
Though well known, this is often a little used site, with maybe another
fisherman there at night--several in sight in daylight. In high summer, you
can sight-fish the carp. They hang in the shallow current in strings of
about a dozen. Just pitch a nice bait above them, and they will get the
scent and begin to search it out. The river runs clear in summer, and the
big walleye will hang in the shade under the bridges and shaded banks.
Leeches are great then, as are minnows and spinners. Problem is that there
are so many smallmouth that it is hard to get a bait down to the walleyes.

Pepperoni


  #9  
Old April 16th, 2004, 01:04 AM
Jim Murray
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Scouting the river (U.S.)

Your American carp are fantastic! Just lean and mean and *incredibly*
strong. Only had a few mirrors, 99% commons. Although Max Cottis did have a
37lb. mirror in Chicago a few years back. Tried the big method feeder up in
Canada 2 years ago with lots of success. Happy fishing,

Jim.

"Pepperoni" wrote in message
...
"Jim Murray" wrote in message
...
Sounds like great fishing, Pepperoni. What part of the US are you in?

Have
fished for carp in Illinois, Ohio & Wisconsin, happy times.

Jim.


It's the Huron River above Ford Lake in Ypsilanti, Mi., but it's easier

to
say Ann Arbor, and folks don't ask how you spell it (or what it means).
Great fishing, but so much water that none of it gets worked very hard.

The
Huron contains trophy Musky, walleye, smallmouth and channel cats, as well
as striper hybred and salmon below Belleville. (fairly new fish ladder at
Flat Rock) They are a little pressed for space because of the high

density
of carp, but they manage. The river side is not highly developed because

it
is prone to flooding and in many places you will find it overgrown and

slow
traveling. Parks, paved trails and access points line the trail in some
areas. Fishing the first highway bridge above Ford Lake is especially
convenient, having a wide pedestrian walk on either side. Night fishing
here produces huge stringers of channel cats averaging about 32 inches.
Though well known, this is often a little used site, with maybe another
fisherman there at night--several in sight in daylight. In high summer,

you
can sight-fish the carp. They hang in the shallow current in strings of
about a dozen. Just pitch a nice bait above them, and they will get the
scent and begin to search it out. The river runs clear in summer, and the
big walleye will hang in the shade under the bridges and shaded banks.
Leeches are great then, as are minnows and spinners. Problem is that

there
are so many smallmouth that it is hard to get a bait down to the walleyes.

Pepperoni




 




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