I'm ashamed of my country

On 24 Mar 2006 00:40:45 GMT, Scott Seidman wrote:

"rb608" wrote in news:8iGUf.20472
$hC.19882@trnddc08:

The question of how far one would go in a specific situation to protect
one's family is indeed a legitimate question;


No, it's a trite question. It's the type of question one ask very young
schoolchildren. At some age, they think its wrong to steal, for example,
then they get older, and they realize there are some situations where its
less wrong to steal,

Like if they are kinda pregnant and need to steal a coat hanger or
something...if you teach your children such total bull****, you've no business
being a parent...mitigating circumstances are not a defense to guilt, only a
temperance to punishment...

or some where they would steal, while still knowing
its wrong, or where stealing is the lesser of two evils.

You could always come up with a situation where any given evil is the
lesser of two evils. Unfortunately, our government can't come up with a
case where torture has led to any successful outcome, or a case where the
ability to get library records with no warrant, or any other stipulation of
the Patriot Act, has done any good at all. Maybe they're waiting to trot
out evidence of a success when GW's approval hits 25%.

Uh, yeah, right...if you're not in the loop, or didn't see it in the NYT, it
didn't happen...and if you think US agents using "torture" has any singular
connection to this or any other administration, you're even more uninformed than
I have previously thought...

I'm not so sure that they contributed to the outcome at all. We just
lost.

--riverman

In article . com,
"Frank Reid" wrote:

I've noticed that Mr. Turek has chosen not to respond to me. I find it
interesting that many people do not want to debate an issue such as
this with someone like me. They think I should be "for it" as someone
who's "been there." I don't fit into their global view and they get
confused. Cool, time to sow dissention in the ranks.
Frank Reid


I read an article on those that have come back from Iraq. It described
about half of those that come back as having extreme emotional problems,
of being empty shells.

War is hell. You sure better have a good reason to send 18 year olds to
hell.

--
Somewhere in Texas a village is missing their Idiot.

wrote in
news
Like if they are kinda pregnant and need to steal a coat hanger or
something...if you teach your children such total bull****, you've no
business being a parent...mitigating circumstances are not a defense
to guilt, only a temperance to punishment...


Richard--

This stuff isn't "taught" to children. It's what they tell you when you
ask them the question. Apparently, the growth from the black and white
concept of right and wrong to shades of gray is considered an important
step in development.

--
Scott
Reverse name to reply

wrote in
news
You could always come up with a situation where any given evil is the
lesser of two evils. Unfortunately, our government can't come up with
a case where torture has led to any successful outcome, or a case
where the ability to get library records with no warrant, or any other
stipulation of the Patriot Act, has done any good at all. Maybe
they're waiting to trot out evidence of a success when GW's approval
hits 25%.

Uh, yeah, right...if you're not in the loop, or didn't see it in the
NYT, it didn't happen...and if you think US agents using "torture" has
any singular connection to this or any other administration, you're
even more uninformed than I have previously thought...




We're talking about an administration that tends to release information for
political gain--good news when it needs to pat itself on the back, and bad
news when it wants to scare us into letting them do something wrong. If
good stuff were happening because of the Patriot Act, Bush would have it
tattooed on his ass and moon the reporters at a press conference. If we
ain't hearing about it, it ain't happening.

Torture might have happened in other administrations, but it hasn't been
brought this close to the level of official foreign policy before. We
haven't detained people for years without charges since WWII, and to my
recollection, we've never scoffed at the Geneva Convention before.


--
Scott
Reverse name to reply

On 24 Mar 2006 13:12:08 GMT, Scott Seidman wrote:

wrote in
news
You could always come up with a situation where any given evil is the
lesser of two evils. Unfortunately, our government can't come up with
a case where torture has led to any successful outcome, or a case
where the ability to get library records with no warrant, or any other
stipulation of the Patriot Act, has done any good at all. Maybe
they're waiting to trot out evidence of a success when GW's approval
hits 25%.

Uh, yeah, right...if you're not in the loop, or didn't see it in the
NYT, it didn't happen...and if you think US agents using "torture" has
any singular connection to this or any other administration, you're
even more uninformed than I have previously thought...




We're talking about an administration that tends to release information for
political gain--good news when it needs to pat itself on the back, and bad
news when it wants to scare us into letting them do something wrong. If
good stuff were happening because of the Patriot Act, Bush would have it
tattooed on his ass and moon the reporters at a press conference.

If we ain't hearing about it, it ain't happening.

Uh, yeah...during past administrations, particularly the Clinton TOD, there were
all those daily public briefings in which the public had to swear not to tell
anyone about all the secret stuff contained therein...

Torture might have happened in other administrations, but it hasn't been
brought this close to the level of official foreign policy before. We
haven't detained people for years without charges since WWII, and to my
recollection, we've never scoffed at the Geneva Convention before.

Oh, you sweet naive little child ...are you sure you're tall enough to be on the
rides in Fantasyland?

wrote in
:

Oh, you sweet naive little child ...are you sure you're tall enough to
be on the rides in Fantasyland?


And the long list of names of people held without charges for three years
prior to this administration....

--
Scott
Reverse name to reply

murderous fisherman wrote in message
...
you ashamed of your country? take your "math" and get the **** out. Canada
loves ****in wimps like you! I 'd give $100 for ever "Rag Head"
sonofabitch killed if I could. Men women and children. They grow up you
know. If I ever see a ragheaded ******* on the stream , I'll do my best to
drown the ****er.
murderous fisherman

The more anonymous, the braver....

surely you jest....

john

On 24 Mar 2006 13:02:01 GMT, Scott Seidman wrote:

wrote in
news
Like if they are kinda pregnant and need to steal a coat hanger or
something...if you teach your children such total bull****, you've no
business being a parent...mitigating circumstances are not a defense
to guilt, only a temperance to punishment...


Richard--

This stuff isn't "taught" to children. It's what they tell you when you
ask them the question. Apparently, the growth from the black and white
concept of right and wrong to shades of gray is considered an important
step in development.

If that's what you think children need to be told, again, you've no business
being a parent or otherwise answering children's questions. There are no
"shades of grey" when it comes to right and wrong - right is right and wrong is
wrong. The only time a "shade of grey" comes into things is when an informed
and rational person is faced with a decision in which doing or not doing a thing
they know to be right or wrong is mitigated by the good they believe will come
of their decision to ignore what is right or wrong. Regardless of the good
ultimately done, the underlying thing is still either right or wrong.

riverman wrote:
I'm not so sure that they contributed to the outcome at all. We just
lost.

My point is that Iran comes out the winner because their allies, the
majority Shia, control the government. That's what the Sunni are so
****ed about.

Iran couldn't defeat Iraq in their war, in no small part because of the
aid we gave to our old buddy Saddam Hussein. Now we've done it for them
and all they had to do was sit back and watch. We've somehow managed to
lose the war politically by winning it militarily. Leave it to Bush.

A similar thing happened in Afghanistan. Aiding the Mujahadin against
the Soviets, on the theory that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend,"
led to the Taliban taking power.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.