Ping RW et al

On 2010-10-27 16:22:35 -0400, " said:

On Oct 27, 10:14*am, D. LaCourse wrote:

What's your idea for a good bonefish rod/reel? *

I use a 4-piece 8wt Sage Z-Axis tip action with a 9wt sharkskin line
and an Abel Super 8 reel. Works for me.

I was thinking about a Loomis GLX, 8wt, 9 foot. It gets pretty good
reviews and I have own/fished with a number of Loomis' rods over the
years and have always been very satisfied. Wellllll... the same could
be said about Sages and Winstons...d;o) I agree with your choice of a
reel.

All of this is still in the "dreaming" stage, but fishing bones in some
far-off tropic isle has always been on my "bucket list".

Thanks for your input.

Dave

On Wed, 27 Oct 2010 17:22:45 -0400, D. LaCourse wrote:

On 2010-10-27 16:22:35 -0400, " said:

On Oct 27, 10:14*am, D. LaCourse wrote:

What's your idea for a good bonefish rod/reel? *

I use a 4-piece 8wt Sage Z-Axis tip action with a 9wt sharkskin line
and an Abel Super 8 reel. Works for me.

I was thinking about a Loomis GLX, 8wt, 9 foot. It gets pretty good
reviews and I have own/fished with a number of Loomis' rods over the
years and have always been very satisfied. Wellllll... the same could
be said about Sages and Winstons...d;o) I agree with your choice of a
reel.

Why? I've nothing particularly _against_ the reel, and certainly nothing
against the former owners, but the Tibor/Billy Pate is a better and slightly
cheaper reel, and now, it's a much more solid bet that it will enjoy support
from the manufacturer...if Abel is still around in a year or two, they may be
owned by Madoff's (father and/or son) creditors (or his ex-wife or...) and the
son doesn't have a good record with FFing-related companies and positive
outcomes...(Google "Andrew/Andy Madoff and "Urban Angler" for some of the
details, and "lock and hackle miami" for some more...)

All of this is still in the "dreaming" stage, but fishing bones in some
far-off tropic isle has always been on my "bucket list".

I take it from the above that you've not done much, if any, flats/bonefishing?
If so, why the Abel?


HTH,
R

Thanks for your input.

Dave

On 2010-10-27 18:53:02 -0400, said:



I take it from the above that you've not done much, if any, flats/bonefishing?
If so, why the Abel?
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

I have several Abels and they impress me in a number of ways -
workmanship, drag, ruggedness (I fall alot d;o) ), but not price.
When I buy a new outfit (steelhead, salmon, etc), I usually look at the
available Abels. Don't always buy them, but they are my usual first
look. I was unaware of the Madoff connection. I will take a look at
your suggestion. I've heard good things about the Tibor/Billy Pate.
Thanks.

Dave

On Wed, 27 Oct 2010 19:53:38 -0400, D. LaCourse wrote:

On 2010-10-27 18:53:02 -0400, said:



I take it from the above that you've not done much, if any, flats/bonefishing?
If so, why the Abel?
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

I have several Abels and they impress me in a number of ways -
workmanship, drag, ruggedness (I fall alot d;o) ), but not price.
When I buy a new outfit (steelhead, salmon, etc), I usually look at the
available Abels. Don't always buy them, but they are my usual first
look. I was unaware of the Madoff connection. I will take a look at
your suggestion. I've heard good things about the Tibor/Billy Pate.
Thanks.

Dave

Again, nothing _against_ Abel as a product (assuming they haven't changed along
with the ownership), but now, considering the circumstances, I'd not spend
500.00-plus USD on one at the current time. I have no idea how serious the
Feds, creditors, etc. are about pursuing Madoff money, but considering they were
selling off pretty much everything they could, and the son's spending was
brought into question, combined with the fact that Abel (the company) would be a
larger asset, and I'd be cautious within reason. Long story short, for a number
of reasons, I'd not buy an Abel right now even if I preferred them over
Tibor/Pates (which I don't).

And not that it should matter much, but most of the _serious_ sal****er FFers I
know (famous, moderately so, and unknown to most) use Tibor/Pate over Abel. And
also FWIW, and strictly as a matter of personal preferences, I'd at least look
at a 'glass rod, esp. if traveling via, um, less-than-ideal means.

And finally, I'd remind all that pretty much before most of us were born (and
certainly before any of us were FFing as adults), folks were fishing SW with
bamboo and Medalists, and not much later, with 'glass and Medalists, and caught
and brought to hand plenty of fish. If you saw what gear was used, even as late
as the mid 70s, by _serious_ S. Florida fishers, it might put Abels, Pates,
600-800.00USD rods, etc. into perspective - things like pine sapling poles (and
then, pole-vaulting poles), cut-up tuna/cobia towers over motors as poling
platforms, etc.

TC,
R

On Wed, 27 Oct 2010 21:05:48 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 27 Oct 2010 19:53:38 -0400, D. LaCourse wrote:

On 2010-10-27 18:53:02 -0400, said:



I take it from the above that you've not done much, if any, flats/bonefishing?
If so, why the Abel?
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

I have several Abels and they impress me in a number of ways -
workmanship, drag, ruggedness (I fall alot d;o) ), but not price.
When I buy a new outfit (steelhead, salmon, etc), I usually look at the
available Abels. Don't always buy them, but they are my usual first
look. I was unaware of the Madoff connection. I will take a look at
your suggestion. I've heard good things about the Tibor/Billy Pate.
Thanks.

Dave

Again, nothing _against_ Abel as a product (assuming they haven't changed along
with the ownership), but now, considering the circumstances, I'd not spend
500.00-plus USD on one at the current time. I have no idea how serious the
Feds, creditors, etc. are about pursuing Madoff money, but considering they were
selling off pretty much everything they could, and the son's spending was
brought into question, combined with the fact that Abel (the company) would be a
larger asset, and I'd be cautious within reason. Long story short, for a number
of reasons, I'd not buy an Abel right now even if I preferred them over
Tibor/Pates (which I don't).

And not that it should matter much, but most of the _serious_ sal****er FFers I

What is this list coming to!!!
This is actually about flyfishing - nice

Thanks

Fred
know (famous, moderately so, and unknown to most) use Tibor/Pate over Abel. And
also FWIW, and strictly as a matter of personal preferences, I'd at least look
at a 'glass rod, esp. if traveling via, um, less-than-ideal means.

And finally, I'd remind all that pretty much before most of us were born (and
certainly before any of us were FFing as adults), folks were fishing SW with
bamboo and Medalists, and not much later, with 'glass and Medalists, and caught
and brought to hand plenty of fish. If you saw what gear was used, even as late
as the mid 70s, by _serious_ S. Florida fishers, it might put Abels, Pates,
600-800.00USD rods, etc. into perspective - things like pine sapling poles (and
then, pole-vaulting poles), cut-up tuna/cobia towers over motors as poling
platforms, etc.

TC,
R

On 2010-10-27 22:05:48 -0400, said:

And finally, I'd remind all that pretty much before most of us were born (and
certainly before any of us were FFing as adults), folks were fishing SW with
bamboo and Medalists, and not much later, with 'glass and Medalists, and caught
and brought to hand plenty of fish. If you saw what gear was used,
even as late
as the mid 70s, by _serious_ S. Florida fishers, it might put Abels, Pates,
600-800.00USD rods, etc. into perspective - things like pine sapling poles (and
then, pole-vaulting poles), cut-up tuna/cobia towers over motors as poling
platforms, etc.

big smile
I still have my mother's fly rods - glass 5 and 7 weights I believe -
along with her reels. Sort of beat up, but I still cast them with the
original line put on somewhere in the 50s. I also have my dad's spin
outfits. I learned to fly fish with a Sears and Rubbish boo rod made
in occupied Japan. I think it cost $5 or so. It and several other
rods were stored in my sister's basement. Of course over the years,
things disappeared, including the boo rods.

I can remember both mom and dad landing some very big trout with what I
now identify as crap rods and reels. I especially remember a very big
bass my dad caught on a cheap boo fly rod using bait in Cobble Mountain
Reservoir (drinking water for Springfield, Mass.). And, we tied our
own leaders - I never saw a tapered leader until I came back to fly
fishing about 25 years ago.

Fond memories. Thanks for tweeking them.

Dave

On Oct 27, 8:05*pm, wrote:
On Wed, 27 Oct 2010 19:53:38 -0400, D. LaCourse wrote:
On 2010-10-27 18:53:02 -0400, said:

I take it from the above that you've not done much, if any, flats/bonefishing?
If so, why the Abel?
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

I have several Abels and they impress me in a number of ways -
workmanship, drag, ruggedness (I fall alot d;o) *), but not price. *
When I buy a new outfit (steelhead, salmon, etc), I usually look at the
available Abels. *Don't always buy them, but they are my usual first
look. *I was unaware of the Madoff connection. *I will take a look at
your suggestion. * I've heard good things about the Tibor/Billy Pate. *
Thanks.

I bought my Abel Super 8 in 1999, before Bernie Madoff was a household
name. It's been an excellent reel. The drag became uneven after much
use, the foot was bent because I dropped it (and had to repair it with
a visegrip), and I lost the lock nut years ago. Sent it back recently.
$20 later it's like new. I feel like I'm ahead with Bernie and his
sons.

There are lots of good reels, and the really good ones are expensive.
Just make sure that you have an excellent drag and plenty of backing.
And you should have a backup rig.

On 2010-10-28 01:35:02 -0400, " said:

because I dropped it (and had to repair it with
a visegrip), and I lost the lock nut years ago. Sent it back recently.
$20 later it's like new. I feel like I'm ahead with Bernie and his
sons.

There are lots of good reels, and the really good ones are expensive.
Just make sure that you have an excellent drag and plenty of backing.
And you should have a backup rig.

I too have been happy with my Abels. The one I use most (with my LT5)
I bought in 1995 or thereabouts. I thought it was expensive at the
time, but it has excellent trouble-free service all these years.

My only backup rig would be a Sage XP 7 weight with a Lamson reel. It
souds a little light but has served me well with big salmon and browns.
I'll have to check and make sure it holds enough backing.

Dave

On Wed, 27 Oct 2010 22:35:02 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Oct 27, 8:05*pm, wrote:
On Wed, 27 Oct 2010 19:53:38 -0400, D. LaCourse wrote:
On 2010-10-27 18:53:02 -0400, said:

I take it from the above that you've not done much, if any, flats/bonefishing?
If so, why the Abel?
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

I have several Abels and they impress me in a number of ways -
workmanship, drag, ruggedness (I fall alot d;o) *), but not price. *
When I buy a new outfit (steelhead, salmon, etc), I usually look at the
available Abels. *Don't always buy them, but they are my usual first
look. *I was unaware of the Madoff connection. *I will take a look at
your suggestion. * I've heard good things about the Tibor/Billy Pate. *
Thanks.

I bought my Abel Super 8 in 1999, before Bernie Madoff was a household
name.

Depends on the household...seriously, though, AFAIK, Bernie (directly) never had
anything to do with Abel, it was his son who purchased (perhaps with partners or
???) the company and is (was???) CEO of the holding company, and that was only
in the last year or two. I don't know or care about the minutiae of his
(their???) role in Abel - again, nothing against the product or the Abels (the
actual people), but I've always preferred the Tibor/Pates. I'll leave it to
those interested to look further if they desire, using the suggested search
terms I gave Louie. If it were me and I were a big fan of Abel with several
"go-to" reels from them and further intended to use what I had hard, I might
consider laying up my own small stock of service parts, esp. any "model common"
parts or wear items.

It's been an excellent reel. The drag became uneven after much
use, the foot was bent because I dropped it (and had to repair it with
a visegrip), and I lost the lock nut years ago. Sent it back recently.
$20 later it's like new. I feel like I'm ahead with Bernie and his
sons.

I've seen, handled and _very_ briefly used one or two Abels (I cannot recall the
model(s)), and stuck with what I have. I cannot recall the exact circumstances
or thinking "Now this is a ripoff!" (and if I had thought such, I would recall
it), so I'll take y'alls word that they are good reels. I can recall hearing
rumblings about Andrew's spending and where the money came from, and that would
give me pause as far as any current purchases from them, at least until the
situation is known, for anything approaching retail prices.

There are lots of good reels, and the really good ones are expensive.

Generally, yes, but not exclusively so. For example, the larger "real"
Medalists can be a fairly decent SW reel, as long as they are maintained
_scrupulously_ (and drag parts, etc. are at hand or can be made "on site").
OTOH, the Pates, Abels, etc., require much less ****ing around, and for many,
this represents value for money (and I include myself in that group). A quick
FW rinse each day used, IMO, beats a complete tear-down and flush one or twice a
day, each and every fishing day, and the same, not daily but fairly frequently,
even when not in use but merely "on-site" in a SW environment. OTOH, if you're
on a "beach bum" budget and schedule, you can fish effectively with one.

Just make sure that you have an excellent drag and plenty of backing.
And you should have a backup rig.

With this I'd agree. And I'd again say that anyone traveling to SW fish would
do themselves a favor by at least looking at and trying 'glass rods. Over the
years I've seen 'glass take much more abuse than graphite and all the moreso in
the realm of SW fishing - bounced around in transport, on boats, etc. and I
guess as function of "beach" dwellings vs. "trout lodge" dwellings, inside, too.
My flyrods that are kept on board boats are all, save one, 'glass and I'd be
_very_ careful using anything but 'glass with large SW gamefish.

HTH,
R

On Thu, 28 Oct 2010 07:39:30 -0400, D. LaCourse wrote:

On 2010-10-28 01:35:02 -0400, " said:

because I dropped it (and had to repair it with
a visegrip), and I lost the lock nut years ago. Sent it back recently.
$20 later it's like new. I feel like I'm ahead with Bernie and his
sons.

There are lots of good reels, and the really good ones are expensive.
Just make sure that you have an excellent drag and plenty of backing.
And you should have a backup rig.

I too have been happy with my Abels. The one I use most (with my LT5)
I bought in 1995 or thereabouts. I thought it was expensive at the
time, but it has excellent trouble-free service all these years.

My only backup rig would be a Sage XP 7 weight with a Lamson reel. It
souds a little light but has served me well with big salmon and browns.
I'll have to check and make sure it holds enough backing.

The issue with bones isn't exactly "brute strength," it's the run and cast. I'd
be more concerned with the ability to handle a screaming run than I would the
exact weight class of rod or reel, followed closely with the ability to cast a
fair piece of line into the wind (with a 7 or even a 6 - obviously a wispy 2
with a microreel won't cut it). Now, if you plan on multi-species fishing
(permit, tarpon, marlin, etc.), you may well need a battery of rods, reels, and
terminal tackle, including some larger-weight gear (or tune your terminal tackle
to protect the gear, if, for example, you're after baby tarpon and get mom or
dad - not likely, but...). Long story short, a 7 with which _you_ can handle
the casting duties, mated with a reel that will handle the run will be fine.
OTOH, an 8 that _you_ can't cast 20 feet is useless _to you_ as bonefish/flats
gear, as is a reel that either can't handle the run and/or takeup, or, beats the
highholy**** out of you when it does.

IAC, with bones, I put the run-handling slightly above the casting because it
won't help to be able to cast to 'em and then have them smoke the reel once you
hook up, but most rods can, even if with operator difficulty, cast at least far
enough. And yet again, I'd suggest looking at a 'glass rod as a backup - you
could find a decent rod for under 200.00 (and if you roll yer own, probably well
under 100.00, no time value included). As a starting point, look around for a
good used Lamiglas or similar, or hell, if you must, IIRC, Tom Morgan sells a 7
or 8 that might be a decent bonefishing rod (I don't know the specifics on it,
so ???). At least it would be expensive...

One thing to keep in mind, ala the above - one thing with SW fishing that is
substantially different from fresh; the size of the "bait" often goes with the
size of the fish. IOW, there is a wide variety of fish and size range therein
not found in most FW, and I've seen folks **** up trout (spec) class gear
messing around with things like cobia. The cobia hookup being intentional -
they rigged up with a large fly that specs would have ignored, just as the cobia
would have ignored a small spec fly/lure/bait. I've also seen folks manage to
land them on such, too, but they were very experienced and knew how to tend
their gear in such a situation.

HTH,
R

Dave