Rod/Reel for surf and pier fishing?

The Big One wrote:

For surf, try a 10' to 13' medium action rod. For a reel, look for something
with a lot of ball bearings. *Breakaway* line is good as 50 pound test is
only .55 in diameter and 20 pound is downright miniscule. And try not to
cast into the wind!
Biggie



A medium action rod will be a good fish fighter but will not load as
well as a fast action. If you want maximum distance go with the fast action
rod. For better fish fighting go with a medium. Those big, long sticks
should only be used for casting bait. throwing plugs with a 13 footer will
make you feel like quitting after only a dozen or so casts.

I think this whole ball bearing kick the makers are on right now is part
sales gimmick. Many great and successful reels in the past were not
made with a zillion ball bearings. The more of them you have, the harder
it is to clean the reel. Imagine dropping a reel in the sand and then having to
clean 11 or more bearings? Many sturdy, well made reels have been constructed
with only a few ball bearings and provided years of smooth service.




--
Sphynx

In article , "Sphynx"
writes:

10 or 12 lb test
is plain suicide for stripers, blues and even weakfish right now, since
there are so many biggies this year. And in rocky water, it's just too
weak

On the west coast there are storms and currents along the beach that
can quickly pile several pounds of kelp and other trash onto your line.
You either use heavier line, or quit fishing in these conditions.

Regards,
Cliff


Fishing: "a sport surrounded entirely by liars in old clothes"

CKLINERT wrote:
In article , "Sphynx"
writes:

10 or 12 lb test
is plain suicide for stripers, blues and even weakfish right now, since
there are so many biggies this year. And in rocky water, it's just too
weak

On the west coast there are storms and currents along the beach that
can quickly pile several pounds of kelp and other trash onto your line.
You either use heavier line, or quit fishing in these conditions.

Regards,
Cliff


Fishing: "a sport surrounded entirely by liars in old clothes"


Good point Cliff. Here in New England, if you make the mistake of
casting into weedy water, the weeds can keep building up on your
lure as you retrieve, to the point of being so heavy that you can barely
crank the handle. Light tackle guys almost always end up snapping off
and having to buy new plugs. That's why the manufacturers love them so
much.

--
Sphynx

Agree, and I also find that giant rods are more tiresome to handle, make
landing and handling the fish more dificult too.

It also depends WHERE you are fishing: for example, on the beaach where I
fish in Maine, the stripers are usually within "pitching" distance - even in
knee-deep water, so didtance casting is a waste of time.



"Sphynx" wrote in message
m...
Marvin Murphy wrote:
I've been surf fishing for 50 years. A 10' rod is the bare minimum you
want
to use if you seriously want to fish. 8ft rod is about the max for pier
fishing.

Competent casters (not to say that you're not) will do fine with a rod
under
10 feet in length. Proper casting technique is so much more important than
rod
length, and most casters don't have it. I have seen guys with 9' rods
outcast
others with big sticks, simply because of better casting skills.

Application comes into play as well. If you're casting bait, only a few
times
a night, then a longer rod can make up for flaws in technique.
If you are fishing lures and casting all night, stay away from the big
stick. It'll
wear you out too quickly. Also the longer the rod, the more wind
resistence
will come into play, slowing your delivery. Too many people are obsessed
with the idea that a long rod is necessary in the surf.

The centrifugal force that increases with a longer rod can be made up for
with
learning to cast with the lure hanging down longer from the rod tip.
Distance casters
do this for extra advantage even with long sticks not meant for fishing.
In
fishing applications the reduced weight of the moderately sized rod will
be
appreciated more by the caster.

The length of rod debate will go on forever but many great surfcasters
have
gone decades fishing without a telephone pole in their arsenal.

--
Sphynx

On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 17:44:13 GMT, "Gene" wrote:

Agree, and I also find that giant rods are more tiresome to handle, make
landing and handling the fish more dificult too.

It also depends WHERE you are fishing: for example, on the beaach where I
fish in Maine, the stripers are usually within "pitching" distance - even in
knee-deep water, so didtance casting is a waste of time.
I fish near Montauk, Near Hither Hills State Park to be exact. The
surf is pretty rough most of the time and i find that casting with
bail just beyond where the breaker line is most productive. I use a
12' spin surf rod. I am far from the world's best surf caster but, I
got 2 stripers in late August. One a keeper of 33". I know this for
a fact because a DEC agent patrols the beach on an ATV and measured my
fish. Less than 28" and the fish cost $250. For those of you who are
familiar with the place it was just behind the Ocean Vista Motel


"Sphynx" wrote in message
om...
Marvin Murphy wrote:
I've been surf fishing for 50 years. A 10' rod is the bare minimum you
want
to use if you seriously want to fish. 8ft rod is about the max for pier
fishing.

Competent casters (not to say that you're not) will do fine with a rod
under
10 feet in length. Proper casting technique is so much more important than
rod
length, and most casters don't have it. I have seen guys with 9' rods
outcast
others with big sticks, simply because of better casting skills.

Application comes into play as well. If you're casting bait, only a few
times
a night, then a longer rod can make up for flaws in technique.
If you are fishing lures and casting all night, stay away from the big
stick. It'll
wear you out too quickly. Also the longer the rod, the more wind
resistence
will come into play, slowing your delivery. Too many people are obsessed
with the idea that a long rod is necessary in the surf.

The centrifugal force that increases with a longer rod can be made up for
with
learning to cast with the lure hanging down longer from the rod tip.
Distance casters
do this for extra advantage even with long sticks not meant for fishing.
In
fishing applications the reduced weight of the moderately sized rod will
be
appreciated more by the caster.

The length of rod debate will go on forever but many great surfcasters
have
gone decades fishing without a telephone pole in their arsenal.

--
Sphynx

Stephen M. Gluck wrote:
I fish near Montauk, Near Hither Hills State Park to be exact. The
surf is pretty rough most of the time and i find that casting with
bail just beyond where the breaker line is most productive. I use a
12' spin surf rod. I am far from the world's best surf caster but, I
got 2 stripers in late August. One a keeper of 33". I know this for
a fact because a DEC agent patrols the beach on an ATV and measured my
fish. Less than 28" and the fish cost $250. For those of you who are
familiar with the place it was just behind the Ocean Vista Motel


What's the point here? Because you caught two small keepers in August
doesn't prove that a long rod is the way to go. A few nights ago I got
a 38"L 21"G 21 lbs and a 43"L 24"G 31 lbs on my first four casts,
not to mention the numerous smallers around 30 to 33 inches and occasional
bluefish and I was using a 10 footer. I got a 43 and 42 pounder on consecutive
casts a while back and that was a 9 ft rod in a 7+ foot pre-tropical storm surf.

You need not be a great distance caster to be a great surf fisherman. Most
of the best fishing is close. There are also better ways to get more distance
than buying a flag pole and rigging it.
--
Sphynx

In article ,
"Sphynx" wrote:

You need not be a great distance caster to be a great surf fisherman. Most
of the best fishing is close. There are also better ways to get more distance
than buying a flag pole and rigging it.


Just like any fishing, the structure, currents and bottom contours will
affect where the bait runs or is assembled. This will determine where
the fish are.

So, maybe they are close in where you are fishing but for another
location it may be further out. Same thing for fishing pelagic species.
One port you can go a 2 - 5 miles out and another you may need to run 80
miles to get to them.

A long rod provides a longer lever and the laws of physics apply. Of
course the longer lever comes into play when fighting the fish as well.
And the longer rod, depending on construction may provide more give for
surging fish with lighter line.

An angler can probably get any tackle to work in any situation within
reason. Having the tackle best suited based on the finite factors based
on materials, capacity, physics, durability, etc. will generally improve
your chances at the specific fishing you are doing. Dynamics of angler
ability, location, weather, tides, etc. can not be considered in
assessing which tackle is better.

Of course I am siting no proof so this may come off as opinion and can
be taken as such with the appropriate significance.

regards,

atljoe
--
"Atlanta Joe" aka Joe Webb
Flats fishing is Flat Fun!
Visit my site at http://flatsfisher.com

joe wrote:

Just like any fishing, the structure, currents and bottom contours will
affect where the bait runs or is assembled. This will determine where
the fish are.

True. Also, the water itself can act as structure in that the last wave (or first,
however you see it) provides a feeding edge close in which will attract fish no matter
where you are. That said, I agree there are some places where the fish can
only be reached with a long cast. Still, there are options other than a long,
unwieldy stick. Anyone who thinks that the ONLY way to get more
distance is to use a longer rod does not understand casting. Length can help
but there are definite tradeoffs, like weight, wind resistance etc.


So, maybe they are close in where you are fishing but for another
location it may be further out. Same thing for fishing pelagic species.
One port you can go a 2 - 5 miles out and another you may need to run 80
miles to get to them.

Don't mean to be redundant but like I said, there are still other options
to a steeple with guides on it. Some of the best distance casters don't go over
11.5 feet. The Cape Cod Canal often requires casts of over100 to 150 yards to
reach the fish. I have stood next to guys who easily make this and more with
9.5 foot rods. Many of the Canal rods the shops sell are only 9 feet. Ask the
expert rod builders and they will tell you they only make the 12+ footers for
guys who demand it, not out of necessity.


A long rod provides a longer lever and the laws of physics apply. Of
course the longer lever comes into play when fighting the fish as well.
And the longer rod, depending on construction may provide more give for
surging fish with lighter line.

Who do you know can cast a 15 or 16 foot rod effectively? Sure, maybe for
bait fishers who cast once per half hour. But even then the wind resistance
and balance causes problems with the cast.



Of course I am siting no proof so this may come off as opinion and can
be taken as such with the appropriate significance.

regards,

atljoe

I respect your opinion, but having built many surf rods and talking to
many experts, I and other builders know just how overblown the distance/
length of rod issue is. This turned out to be a good thread. Cheers.


--
Sphynx

"Sphynx" wrote in message
news
The Big One wrote:

For surf, try a 10' to 13' medium action rod. For a reel, look for
something
with a lot of ball bearings. *Breakaway* line is good as 50 pound test
is
only .55 in diameter and 20 pound is downright miniscule. And try not to
cast into the wind!
Biggie



A medium action rod will be a good fish fighter but will not load as
well as a fast action. If you want maximum distance go with the fast
action
rod. For better fish fighting go with a medium. Those big, long sticks
should only be used for casting bait. throwing plugs with a 13 footer will
make you feel like quitting after only a dozen or so casts.

I think this whole ball bearing kick the makers are on right now is part
sales gimmick. Many great and successful reels in the past were not
made with a zillion ball bearings. The more of them you have, the harder
it is to clean the reel. Imagine dropping a reel in the sand and then
having to
clean 11 or more bearings? Many sturdy, well made reels have been
constructed
with only a few ball bearings and provided years of smooth service.

You are probably correct. I have talked at length with *experts* at Cabela's
and Bass Pro and they are inclined to think that the number of ball bearings
is *important*. Who are you going to talk to? Fishermen? I think not. Most
fishermen that I know are very opinionated on what good gear consists of and
generally have a favorite deep in the bowels of their tackle box that they
like for no other reason except they have had it a long time and has not
broken down. Not unlike a car. Or a wife.




--
Sphynx

The original question was about Surf FISHING not distance casting. Almost
all beaches I fish are relatively flat. Any rod under 10' when placed in the
average sand spike in my MHO is a pain in the butt if you have any wave
action going on. They generally aren't tall enough to get your line above
the waves breaking over the first bar. As far as weight of the rod I agree
that a heavy rod is a pain in the butt but if you buy a quality rod this
isn't a problem. I cast lures (hopkins) with a 10'6" rod all day without any
fatigue. My bait caster is 12'.

"Sphynx" wrote in message
om...
joe wrote:

Just like any fishing, the structure, currents and bottom contours will
affect where the bait runs or is assembled. This will determine where
the fish are.

True. Also, the water itself can act as structure in that the last wave
(or first,
however you see it) provides a feeding edge close in which will attract
fish no matter
where you are. That said, I agree there are some places where the fish can
only be reached with a long cast. Still, there are options other than a
long,
unwieldy stick. Anyone who thinks that the ONLY way to get more
distance is to use a longer rod does not understand casting. Length can
help
but there are definite tradeoffs, like weight, wind resistance etc.


So, maybe they are close in where you are fishing but for another
location it may be further out. Same thing for fishing pelagic species.
One port you can go a 2 - 5 miles out and another you may need to run 80
miles to get to them.

Don't mean to be redundant but like I said, there are still other options
to a steeple with guides on it. Some of the best distance casters don't go
over
11.5 feet. The Cape Cod Canal often requires casts of over100 to 150
yards to
reach the fish. I have stood next to guys who easily make this and more
with
9.5 foot rods. Many of the Canal rods the shops sell are only 9 feet. Ask
the
expert rod builders and they will tell you they only make the 12+ footers
for
guys who demand it, not out of necessity.


A long rod provides a longer lever and the laws of physics apply. Of
course the longer lever comes into play when fighting the fish as well.
And the longer rod, depending on construction may provide more give for
surging fish with lighter line.

Who do you know can cast a 15 or 16 foot rod effectively? Sure, maybe for
bait fishers who cast once per half hour. But even then the wind
resistance
and balance causes problems with the cast.



Of course I am siting no proof so this may come off as opinion and can
be taken as such with the appropriate significance.

regards,

atljoe

I respect your opinion, but having built many surf rods and talking to
many experts, I and other builders know just how overblown the distance/
length of rod issue is. This turned out to be a good thread. Cheers.


--
Sphynx