Need help finding an underwater Baetis fly

On Aug 12, 2:14*pm, Todd wrote:
On 08/12/2010 11:30 AM, D. LaCourse wrote:

Oh, yes. And everyone need a stalker in their life. Thank you
for noticing.

Or a pony. But Giles is only a one trick pony. Don't count on him for
very much more than that. And he loves to stalk too.

For some unexplained reason, Giles is actually endearing.

It's respect for differences of opinion. That and the habit of
cultivating gentlemanly behavior.....and sentimentality.....and
kindness.

I can not explain why.

True, true.

I am still waiting for him to honor
my request and call me a "nitwit".

Hold your breath, dumbass.

Giles is Giles.

Well....

There is a sizable contingent who insist that giles is actually
someone or something else.....a theory not entirely without merit
despite an absolute lack of substantiating evidence.

And he righteously called you on your behavior.

And actually quite proud of it. I mean, who else could have done
that, ainna?

Stalkstalkstalk. *Everyone of roff stalks.

If I were they rest of you, I would take offense.

If you were the rest of us you would no longer fit in your pants.
Food for thought.

They are gentleman.

All gentlemen are liars except thee and me.....

Some day I'd like to have someone explain to me just what a
"gentleman" is. Not now.....and certainly not you.....but, somebody,
some day.

They do not stalk.

Well, not successfully. A natural consequence of oafishness.

You do.

No. What he does is periodically jump up and down, shriek, and rattle
the bars.....just like his closest living relatives.

Do any of them
call others stupid or swear at them because they do not
like the caliber of their questions/comments?

Weeellll......

Do the rest of them
seek out (stalk) any other individuals and actively try to
discredit them?

Weeellll......

You are the one that acts like a prat.

One, not "the" one.

And, with the exception of one other person, the rest respect my
request for anonymity.

Hm....

No, I think not. Oh, SOME may respect your "request" for anonymity (I
guess maybe I'm the only one here who doesn't recall ever having seen
any such a request but that, as they say, is neither here nor there)
though I suspect that most, like me, probably just don't give a rat's
ass one way or the other.

Dave, aka The Stalker (or as I like to be known, Chief Stalker)
(my eyes are starting to hurt from all the rolling....)

I was wondering if that hurt on not.

Probably not. Lower life forms, if one is to credit a theory that
crops up here from time to time, are incapable of feeling pain.
Somewhat ironically, the most convincing evidence presented thus far
in support of this theory is the continued presence in these pages of
those who espouse it.

If you stop reading my
posts, maybe your eyes will recover.

Maybe.....but will it cure a bad perm?

It is a "discussion" group.

Nominally.

In fact, most people come here in complete blissful ignorance of what
a discussion looks or sounds like, how it is constructed, or what it
is for.....and they leave none the wiser.

Don't read the posts you do not like.

Easier said than done. The trouble with reading is that there is no
practical way of knowing whether or not your going to like it till
after you've done it. Oh, you COULD ask someone to preview it for
you.....but who you gonna trust with something like that?

No, the only way to ensure avoidance of unpleasant reading matter is
to do as most Murricans do......simply avoid reading altogether,
insofar as possible.......and, not so surprisingly, if you look at
these matters closely, it is possible to an extraordinary degree.
With just a little practice it becomes easy enough to determine that
most people are adept at avoiding reading even when they (and their
interlocutors) believe they actually ARE reading! Read (heh, heh)
this thread for a wonderful example.

(I do not read the political posts -- way too nasty.)

See what I mean? "political posts"? Goddamn, you guys slay me! You
actually believe this gradeschool name-calling crap has something to
do with politics?

-T

g.
writing as g.

On Aug 12, 2:50*pm, D. LaCourse wrote:
On 2010-08-12 15:14:12 -0400, Todd said:

On 08/12/2010 11:30 AM, D. LaCourse wrote:

Oh, yes. And everyone need a stalker in their life. Thank you
for noticing.

Or a pony. But Giles is only a one trick pony. Don't count on him for
very much more than that. And he loves to stalk too.

For some unexplained reason, Giles is actually endearing.

Yes, and cuddly too.

I can not explain why.

No one can.

*I am still waiting for him to honor
my request and call me a "nitwit". *Giles is Giles. *And
he righteously called you on your behavior.

He did? *Who'da thunk it.



Stalkstalkstalk. *Everyone of roff stalks.

If I were they rest of you, I would take offense. *They are
gentleman. *They do not stalk. *You do. *Do any of them
call others stupid or swear at them because they do not
like the caliber of their questions/comments? *Do the rest of them
seek out (stalk) any other individuals and actively try to
discredit them? *You are the one that acts like a prat.
And, with the exception of one other person, the rest respect my
request for anonymity.

You really believe that? *Come out of your closet, fish with these guys
and you will get to know them. *Fortenberry's words and advice to you
are very true. *Anonymous people, especially with anonymous/fake isp
are not the same. *If I or someone else wanted to speak privately to
you with advise or whatever, how could they reach you. *They can't. *
You are a black hole asking dumb questions, and acting like a troll. *
Are you a troll?



Dave, aka The Stalker (or as I like to be known, Chief Stalker)
(my eyes are starting to hurt from all the rolling....)

I was wondering if that hurt on not. *If you stop reading my
posts, maybe your eyes will recover. *It is a "discussion"
group.

It soytenly is a discussion group, and that's what you and I are doing
right now. *Duh!

*Don't read the posts you do not like.

I gotta read them, Todd. *How else can I amuse myself? *Well, other
than *that*? d;o(

*(I do not
read the political posts -- way too nasty.)

Eww. *Yes. *One must escape all the nastiness he (or she) can. *Little
11 yo girls have no business discussing politics anyway.



-T

Chief Stalker LaCourse, sir.

Idiot.

g.

On Aug 12, 1:38*pm, Todd wrote:
On 08/12/2010 01:17 PM, personaobscura wrote:

Dude, if past is prolog, here's your best bet: just ignore him, and don't
answer his posts, period. He will work himself into an even bigger lather,
eventually his head will implode, he'll post another memorable screed accusing
you of committing every heinous crime ever thought of that will burn forever
in the archives along with the rest of his life story, and give the rest of
those that frequent this group another reason to avoid him at any cost.

Hi personaobscura,

* * You make a good point. *I will ignore him from now on.

* * And I will return to my practice of referencing points
I make. *(I love references.)

* * Thank you.
* * -T

Did you read Kens' advise? The imitation vs presentation discussion
goes right back into early American FFing lit.

On the anonymous bit. This group goes way back in Net time and what
has developed is different, for better and worse, than the other FFing
sites available to you. This site favors disclosure and encourages on
the ground contact. It favors discussion and sharing. Its primary
weakness is a rough and tumble, screw-you if you can't take a joke
mode of dialogue and a few long term feuds. And maybe too much
politics on occasion. (My bias)

This group drives wanna-be (and actual) "experts" nuts IF they expect
to be treated with servile deference. It drives a certain kind of
retired exec, accustomed to positional deference, nuts. It is off
putting to pushy religionists, women (unfortunately), juveniles,
politicians, salesmen, PR flaks, etc..

It has had more posts in its hay-day (but a huge portion were for
endless C&R threads), and it apparently has lots of non-posting
observers, and its FFing content posts are fewer than most would like,
BUT regular and dense enough to be hijacked by wanna-be FFing sites
with a frequency that is periodically disturbing. Simply put, we have
our issues but we is about the best out there.

So you come along, and I must say your questions are good at
stimulating FFing content posts, HOWEVER . . . given the mode of the
group you are free-loading. Your excuse about time doesn't wash, and
there IS something about your "voice" that evokes some long gone pain
in the ass, BUT your refusal to even key off of the Pirates'
suggestion, that you ID yourself to at least one regular of your own
choosing, is insulting. The character of this group is old-school
male; men don't show up in masks and play hidey games. You may very
well have some embarrassing crap to hide, you may be in prison, you
may be in some very security sensitive situation, you may be hiding
from the law or an EX, etc etc. All that aside, if you cannot at least
let one person here confirm a real identity in confidence, you are
indeed one sorry guy.

You post here for a reason. Content is at least part of it. I doubt
you could get as much anonymity on other sites. Dave LC threw you a
workable solution if you think about it at all. I suggest you not
respond to my post, but think about it and think how you might make it
work if you were so inclined. You like this site, it could work even
better for you.

Dave

On 08/12/2010 03:41 PM, Giles wrote:
I am still waiting for him to honor
my request and call me a "nitwit".
Hold your breath, dumbass.


Damn! Well maybe someday I will get my wish.

On Aug 12, 5:53*pm, Todd wrote:
On 08/12/2010 03:41 PM, Giles wrote:

I am still waiting for him to honor
*my request and call me a "nitwit".
Hold your breath, dumbass.

Damn! *Well maybe someday I will get my wish.

Maybe. Depends on what you wish for. In any case, it will be a
lonely wait. Nobody else cares.

g.
oh, and, your welcome.

"Todd" wrote in message
...
Hi All,

One of my pet project for about a year now is to
find a fly (I do not tie my own) that imitates an
underwater ovipositing Baetis spinner. I have come
up dry.


well, 47 posts later, here are my feeble thoughts:
First, photo aside, most submerged baetis will be pretty disheveled once
they go below the surface.
Second, although far from a perfect imitation, I've always done well with a
small(say, size 18) Olive brown Submerger wet, tied as follows:

Hook--2xl #18,20 nymph hook
Thread--Danville Olive/Brown 6/0
Tails--3 strands mallard flank, about 1 1/2 times shank
length
Body--loop dubbed mix of squirrel fur and sparkle yarn,
a brownish olive shade, ribbed with very fine
silver wire. Body to about 2 eye widths behind
eye of hook.
Hackle--two turns grey partridge.

I've watched native browns in small streams, with gin clear water, come up
to these fished deep and simply inhale them without stopping their swimming
motion. See how they work for you and get back to us.

Tom

On 08/12/2010 03:46 PM, DaveS wrote:
Did you read Kens' advise? The imitation vs presentation discussion
goes right back into early American FFing lit.

Yes. I am still looking for a near match. It is a pet project of
mine. I would really like to see how it would do up against
the successful, conventions flies I use. It is just a pet project.
I also realize that a bait fisherman who used a real Stonefly, etc.
is going to kick my ass every time. I am just trying to catch up with
him. Maybe I don't even have to. The fun is in the trying.
I will see. I will probably report back when I do. This is suppose
to be fun.

So you come along, and I must say your questions are good at
stimulating FFing content posts, HOWEVER . . . given the mode of the
group you are free-loading.

I do ask a lot of questions. That is how I learn. When I state
my experience, sometimes backed up with references, those curmudgeons
you speak of, get a bit testy. And, I do answer others questions
from time to time when I information to add. My favorite stalker
does like to sneer at them, like my answer on the Cabelas' flies,
which I presume give him reason to live. (See I do a service
for humanity.)

Your excuse about time doesn't wash, and
there IS something about your "voice" that evokes some long gone pain
in the ass, BUT your refusal to even key off of the Pirates'
suggestion, that you ID yourself to at least one regular of your own
choosing, is insulting. The character of this group is old-school
male; men don't show up in masks and play hidey games. You may very
well have some embarrassing crap to hide, you may be in prison, you
may be in some very security sensitive situation, you may be hiding
from the law or an EX, etc etc. All that aside, if you cannot at least
let one person here confirm a real identity in confidence, you are
indeed one sorry guy.

No I can not. Please respect my wishes on this.

If it helps you. I do not know any person on this group and I have
never posted on this group before under any other name. Any
resemblense to persons in your past is coincidence. I am not
who you think I am. I am just Todd. And, if I revealed my
identity to you, I will still be just Todd. As for my writing
style, I am hermetically corny and have a scientific/engineering
background. It influences my writing style.

I suggest you not respond to my post ...

Oops. Sorry. :-)

-T

On 08/12/2010 04:11 PM, Giles wrote:
g.
oh, and, your welcome.

Sorry. 'loved your letter. Very well done.

Many thanks,
-T

On 08/12/2010 04:21 PM, Tom Littleton wrote:
wrote in message
...
Hi All,

One of my pet project for about a year now is to
find a fly (I do not tie my own) that imitates an
underwater ovipositing Baetis spinner. I have come
up dry.


well, 47 posts later, here are my feeble thoughts:
First, photo aside, most submerged baetis will be pretty disheveled once
they go below the surface.
Second, although far from a perfect imitation, I've always done well with a
small(say, size 18) Olive brown Submerger wet, tied as follows:

Hook--2xl #18,20 nymph hook
Thread--Danville Olive/Brown 6/0
Tails--3 strands mallard flank, about 1 1/2 times shank
length
Body--loop dubbed mix of squirrel fur and sparkle yarn,
a brownish olive shade, ribbed with very fine
silver wire. Body to about 2 eye widths behind
eye of hook.
Hackle--two turns grey partridge.

I've watched native browns in small streams, with gin clear water, come up
to these fished deep and simply inhale them without stopping their swimming
motion. See how they work for you and get back to us.

Tom


Thank you! I will have to find one in a store. May not get to
go fishing for a few weeks though. :'( Hmmm. Maybe I could get
the flyshop to tie some for me. I will definitely ramble on
about my experience.

-T

On 2010-08-12 15:50:40 -0400, Todd said:

On 08/12/2010 12:32 PM, D. LaCourse wrote:
Idiot! Soft hackle flies are normally nymphs, sub surface. A pheasant
tail is a sub surface nymph. Add soft hackle to it and it imitates
*exactly* what you are looking for. You ask a question, and then you do
not take the advice given. Your ovipositing baetis is PERFECTLY
mimicked by a PT soft hackle.

I was hoping to pick up a stalker with better manners. Oh well...

Still does not look like wings in the praying position. Doesn't mean
hackle doesn't work. Just does not match the picture, which shows
no sign of any hackle, soft or hard. Never seen an underwater bug
with hackle. As I said before, does not mean it does not work.
Just not what I am after. I am trying to come as close to
exactly matching what a trout actually sees in the drift as I
can. (Oh no, I used a common fish term you dislike. Did your knee
hit the bottom of the table when it jerked? I did not mean to
hurt you. Sorry.)

-T

Look, you asked a question. Three people have told you what to do.
Dave S. suggests you zink up an Adams and get it on the bottom. Might
work. Don't know. I do know that Harry's Proven Caddis Killer works
as a dry and a wet. Why not an Adams dry? Makes sense to me.

Fortenberry gave you a site with all kinds of Baetis spinners. I told
you what *will* work. But, you choose not to accept any of our advise.
"It has to look exactly like the real thing....yaddayaddayadda."
Well, good luck. If anyone could tie one that looks exactly like the
real thing, I would put it on my fly tying bench, under glass. Why
waste three or four hours tying something like that when a PT soft
hackle, size 20, will do EXACTLY the same thing. If Wolfgang won't
call you a nitwit, I will. You are a nitwit who asks stupid troll
questions and does not take expert advise. It must suck to be you,
troll.

No knee jerk here. Just havin' fun like I would with any other troll,
especially expats. d;o)

Chief Stalker LaCourse