To stock or not to stock a wild trout stream. That is the question.

http://www.benningtonbanner.com/localnews/ci_4200376

Discuss.

daytripper wrote:
http://www.benningtonbanner.com/localnews/ci_4200376

Discuss.

I hope to attend the meeting.

It seems to be a warped kind of democracy in that the locals want
something and the state feels obliged to give it to them, to hell with
the science.

Ken Cox, who I have met and regularly provide creel surveys to, sounds
buffoon-like with his "compromise" goal. The decision to stock or not is
a binary thing. At least be honest about it.

I have read studies on the effect of stocking in PA streams that already
hold a head of wild fish. The stocked fish become "delinquent" and
disrupt the feeding patterns of the wild fish. I don't know what success
he alludes to in England. The chalk streams are regularly stocked, but
I thought the UK stocked fingerling trout that CAN reproduce. He could
not be referring to the ghastly Put-and-Take fisheries with their pellet
fed monsters that taste like ****?

Rumor I heard this week is that a landowner who is participating in a
stream side restoration project is going to pull out if the state stocks
the river. This is very bad news, because the lack of stream-side cover
IS the major problem in this river. But there is a lot of emotion around
this issue, make no mistake.

I shared some emails with the Central MA ROFFians earlier this year that
show a 1/2 dozen wild browns all over 15", some a lot more, all caught
in the same morning. This is what this river does produce and if the
resources were spent improving the overall habitat, even the locals
could catch enough to take a few home.

"daytripper" wrote in message
...
http://www.benningtonbanner.com/localnews/ci_4200376

Discuss.

No. (Not to the discussion). No to the stocking of sterile Bows to satisfy
the "kill 'em & Grill 'Em" crowd. The Battenkill is a national
treasure....and should be treated accordingly. Correct the habitat problems
and the trout will come back strong.

"Quick Fix" solutions usually cause more problems than they "fix".
Unfortunately...too many fishermen look at the "now".....instead of the
future. Sad, really.

Dave M
PS: Too many fishermen want Bows (a great trout when wild, by the
way)..because they're too ffing stupid to catch Browns. 'Nuff said.

daytripper wrote:
http://www.benningtonbanner.com/localnews/ci_4200376

Discuss.

Stock it. Wild trout stream my ass. How can anyone call it 'wild' is
beyond me. If you're a conservationist and 'really' care about the
'wildness' of the place you'd be pretty hypocritical not to recognize
the denizens of that river to be descendent from other stockings. If
you're a conservationist you'd be supporting one action and one action
only: Rotenone the whole thing, close it to fishing, fix the habitat
problems and restock it with indiginous brook trout. Anything else is
just bull**** so go ahead and stock it. Might as well.

TBone
It is impossible to catch and release wild trout.

wrote:
daytripper wrote:
http://www.benningtonbanner.com/localnews/ci_4200376

Discuss.

Stock it.

Dumbass.

Wild trout stream my ass.

Hm.....

Well, a wild river might be AS BIG as your ass.......but I suspect that
most people familiar with the former wouldn't have much trouble
distinguishing between the it and the latter......in good light,
anyway.

How can anyone call it 'wild' is
beyond me.

Well, sure, but what isn't?

If you're a conservationist and 'really' care about the
'wildness' of the place you'd be pretty hypocritical not to recognize
the denizens of that river to be descendent from other stockings.

You really don't have any idea of what language is for, do you?

If
you're a conservationist you'd be supporting one action and one action
only: Rotenone the whole thing,

See, that's what we like about you.....most people, left to their own
devices, would probably never figure out that sterilization is
synonymous with conservation.

close it to fishing,

Yeah, you could do that, but with nothing living in it, what would be
the point?

fix the habitat problems

Um.....like installing a handy dandy off the shelf highly evolved
11,000 year old ecosystem? Don't buy it from Wal-Mart......I hear they
suck.

and restock it with indiginous brook trout.

Hee, hee, hee.

Anything else is just bull****

Ah.....at last.....a topic the reader might reasonably suspect you know
a great deal about. Why don't you go ahead and run with that?

so go ahead and stock it. Might as well.

Dumbass.

TBone
It is impossible to catch and release wild trout.

Idiot.

Wolfgang
who can't help but marvel at the twisted abortion that passes for the
logic behind restocking indigenous trout in a dead habitat.

Wolfgang wrote:
[snip]
who can't help but marvel at the twisted abortion that passes for the
logic behind restocking indigenous trout in a dead habitat.

If it's a dead habitat than who gives a rip about a few stockers?

TBone
It is impossible to catch and release a wild trout.

wrote:
Wolfgang wrote:
[snip]
who can't help but marvel at the twisted abortion that passes for the
logic behind restocking indigenous trout in a dead habitat.

If it's a dead habitat than who gives a rip about a few stockers?

It is no surpise that you have no idea of what you are
saying......we've had years to get used to that. No, no surprise at
all. What SHOULD be surprising is that you have no idea of what you've
said after the fact......when it's right there in front of you and you
can look at it to your heart's content. But no, that isn't surprising
either.

TBone
It is impossible to catch and release a wild trout.

Dumbass.

Wolfgang

daytripper wrote:
http://www.benningtonbanner.com/localnews/ci_4200376

Discuss.
Exactly what happened to the Battenkill to make it suddenly poor
fishing? Did they develop the banks and silt it in?

Pete Collin

Peter A. Collin wrote:
Exactly what happened to the Battenkill to make it suddenly poor
fishing? Did they develop the banks and silt it in?

The river suffered a decline in mid-size fish in the mid-90s. Studies
were conducted and the river was made C&R for most of the main stem in
VT, to the NY State Line. In NY the river is stocked, BTW. Vermont have
not stocked since the 60s.

The state's studies concluded the issue was the lack of stream-side
habitat and this resulted in an absence of in-stream cover. I don't have
the number to hand, but it is surprising how many trout a dead-fall tree
trunk can incubate.

I recently re-read Merwin's "Battenkill". Written in 1992 before all
this went down, it is oddly prescient. In one chapter he invites us to
imagine the river 200 years. His description is of a slow moving stream
with lots of dead-fall and debris. Merwin identifies this as a key issue
for the river.

In the last 3 years the state has started to work with the landowners on
various projects in conjunction with funding from Orvis, TU and at least
one other interest groups.

Surveys of tributary streams reveal an astounding numbers of
young-of-the-year, so the basis is good, but the main river simply
cannot grow these fish.

My opinion is that they should fix the habitat issues and let the river
come back by itself. I don't think this opinion will prevail, so at best
it will have a neutral effect on the real problem.

GM wrote:
Peter A. Collin wrote:
Exactly what happened to the Battenkill to make it suddenly poor
fishing? Did they develop the banks and silt it in?

The river suffered a decline in mid-size fish in the mid-90s. Studies
were conducted and the river was made C&R for most of the main stem in
VT, to the NY State Line. In NY the river is stocked, BTW. Vermont have
not stocked since the 60s.

The state's studies concluded the issue was the lack of stream-side
habitat and this resulted in an absence of in-stream cover. I don't have
the number to hand, but it is surprising how many trout a dead-fall tree
trunk can incubate.

I recently re-read Merwin's "Battenkill". Written in 1992 before all
this went down, it is oddly prescient. In one chapter he invites us to
imagine the river 200 years. His description is of a slow moving stream
with lots of dead-fall and debris. Merwin identifies this as a key issue
for the river.

In the last 3 years the state has started to work with the landowners on
various projects in conjunction with funding from Orvis, TU and at least
one other interest groups.

Surveys of tributary streams reveal an astounding numbers of
young-of-the-year, so the basis is good, but the main river simply
cannot grow these fish.

My opinion is that they should fix the habitat issues and let the river
come back by itself. I don't think this opinion will prevail, so at best
it will have a neutral effect on the real problem.

It may be that stocking with catchables is exactly the right answer.
License fees and programs such as the habitat stamp in Colorado:

https://www1.wildlifelicense.com/co/

Will provide the funding and interest in this activity. Not everybody
recruited to the sport is a catch and release fly fisherman. Stocking
catchables promotes the sport to those who fish infrequently but want
to catch a few to eat (and otherwise would not buy a license or the
habitat contribution), especially the youth and inner city anglers.
It's a huge part of the equation in Colorado.

http://www.co.blm.gov/gjra/grandvalleyfishing.htm

Please consider the details of the very important role of put and take
stocking program in the 'holistic management strategy' for Colorado
(see goal of increased in put and take opportunities to 17.8% in the
fishing section of the overal strategy).

http://wildlife.state.co.us/NR/rdonl...0catchables%22

My personal feeling is that we (this group in particular) has a mental
'slide' that immediately relegates the word 'stocking' in to the
negative.

The fact is: Colorado fishing is excellent and getting better. Stocking
catchables is one of the diverse strategies for making it so. It's not
appropriate in all places, but I can tell you that places like St.
Vrain State Park, that is horrible habitat, provides exceptional
opportunity to catch and take home a few trout for dinner, and, despite
what you think, they are very good table fare.

So my advice remains:

Stock it and take a kid fishing. He (or she) will be the future that
protects fishing and will care about habitat.

Why not invite the Colorado Division of Wildlife to Vermont for a
management roundtable?

TBone
It is impossible to catch and release a wild trout.