Is there any advantage in a spey rod?

On 25 Nov 2003 03:02:01 GMT, Stephen Welsh
wrote:

Peter Charles wrote in
:

Most of the spey rods I've casted can also overhead cast very well
however they can need different lines to do both jobs well.

I don't think that identifying a rod as a "spey" rod precludes it's
use as an overhead rod.

Hmmm ... I had one of your countrymen (a transplanted guiding type
from the BC area I believe) recommend a 15' spey rod
for overhead casting in the surf. Apart from the all-to-apparent
"guide-speak" I was a bit dubious about the weight of the rod having
tried an 11 foot single hander some time back and feeling I was
buggering my arm trying to heft it. More a technique problem
amplified by the length and weight of the rod than anything and I
suspect fixable with time in practice.

Could one be used overhead for any length of time without undue
tiredness?

Steve

No joke, my 15'6" 11 wt. is easier to cast all day than my 9' - 10
wt. It's all about length, two hands, and good technique. Well, come
to think of it, there's a few things in life that this fits but it's
also true for two-handed fly rods. How would you like to cast a line
150' with less effort than it takes to double haul?

I'm presently waiting for a CND Atlantis 1111 to arrive. It's
dedicated to overhead casting in the salt. Both it and my Daiwa 11
wt. are intended for overhead use.

They are catching on.

Me in 1999:

http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharl...s/trip-26.html




Peter

turn mailhot into hotmail to reply

Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharl...ers/index.html

Peter Charles wrote:
No joke, my 15'6" 11 wt. is easier to cast all day than my 9' - 10
wt. It's all about length, two hands, and good technique. Well, come
to think of it, there's a few things in life that this fits but it's
also true for two-handed fly rods. How would you like to cast a line
150' with less effort than it takes to double haul?

I'm presently waiting for a CND Atlantis 1111 to arrive. It's
dedicated to overhead casting in the salt. Both it and my Daiwa 11
wt. are intended for overhead use.

Peter

I have had an interesting experience in this respect. I am on my second
spey rod (spey in the generic North American sense). The first I build
on a blank from Angler's Workshop. It was nominally a 12' 7/8 wt,
advertised as a "great for summer steelhead, spey and fast action." I
took it to a casting class and had the instructor try it. He reckoned it
was a catastrophe as a rod for spey casting. Casting some of his rods, I
did reasonably well, but my rod just forgave nothing, not even when I
tried uplining it a couple of weights using lines the instructor had
available. Next rod was a St. Croix 13' 7/8 wt which was much more
satisfactory. In the mean time, I was wondering what to do with the
first rod. The other day it finally occurred to me to try it with a
head. I have a 30' LC13 head with 30lb Amnesia (Damnesia?) running line
which I normally use with a single hand 10 wt rod. I took the
combination down bayside (I live on the west side of San Francisco Bay).
I got the head out on the water and stripped off a bit of running line.
I tried a roll cast with the whole head well sunk in the water to see it
the rod would lift it all--no problem. With the 10 wt single hander I
can only roll up about 20' of LC13 with the rest inside the tip top.
Then I have to cast a time or two to get the rest of the head out the
tip top plus the right amount of overhang. Finally I can do the real
cast. With the two hander with the head on the surface, I made a
backcast out to the side, came back over the top, stopping at 12 o'clock
and let fly. Wham! the line hit the reel taking all the running line I
had stripped off. I progressivley stripped off more running line and
cast further and further as my jaw just dropped at distance I was
getting. It was so easy! Just roll the head up with a single easy roll
cast and then throw the line into the next area code. A day with the 10
wt single hander takes 800 mg of ibuprofen to minimize the effects. This
two hander will be a piece of cake.

Mike

Peter Charles wrote in
:

No joke, my 15'6" 11 wt. is easier to cast all day than my 9' -
10 wt. It's all about length, two hands, and good technique.
Well, come to think of it, there's a few things in life that
this fits but it's also true for two-handed fly rods.

;-)

How would
you like to cast a line 150' with less effort than it takes to
double haul?


Yes, I would like that very much. On good days with the right swell
(gutters in close) these distances are unnecessary but I'm finding
with time on the water these days are rather more rare than my
initial experiences would have me believe - 150ft would
be very useful indeed.

"The ease with which I could reach out close to a 100 feet and cast
over incoming breakers, set some to thinking."


Steve (tick, tick, tick ...)

Peter I spent a couple of days recently casting rods using short
Peter belly and medium belly lines as part of a group contributing to
Peter a magazine article on "spey" rods.

Peter,

This is a most interesting thread that I've been following very
closely. Could you drop us another line on the topic once the magazine
gets out.

--
Jarmo Hurri

Spam countermeasures included. Drop your brain when replying, or just
use .

In article , Stephen Welsh
wrote:

Peter Charles wrote in
:

Most of the spey rods I've casted can also overhead cast very well
however they can need different lines to do both jobs well.

I don't think that identifying a rod as a "spey" rod precludes it's
use as an overhead rod.

Hmmm ... I had one of your countrymen (a transplanted guiding type
from the BC area I believe) recommend a 15' spey rod
for overhead casting in the surf. Apart from the all-to-apparent
"guide-speak" I was a bit dubious about the weight of the rod having
tried an 11 foot single hander some time back and feeling I was
buggering my arm trying to heft it. More a technique problem
amplified by the length and weight of the rod than anything and I
suspect fixable with time in practice.

Could one be used overhead for any length of time without undue
tiredness?

Yes. The leverage caused by using two hands means it's as easy as using
my Sage 3-8-9

Lazarus

Steve

--
Remover the rock from the email address

On 25 Nov 2003 09:29:23 +0200, Jarmo Hurri
wrote:


Peter I spent a couple of days recently casting rods using short
Peter belly and medium belly lines as part of a group contributing to
Peter a magazine article on "spey" rods.

Peter,

This is a most interesting thread that I've been following very
closely. Could you drop us another line on the topic once the magazine
gets out.


Sure, no problem

Peter

turn mailhot into hotmail to reply

Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharl...ers/index.html

On 25 Nov 2003 04:53:21 GMT, Stephen Welsh
wrote:

Peter Charles wrote in
:

No joke, my 15'6" 11 wt. is easier to cast all day than my 9' -
10 wt. It's all about length, two hands, and good technique.
Well, come to think of it, there's a few things in life that
this fits but it's also true for two-handed fly rods.

;-)

How would
you like to cast a line 150' with less effort than it takes to
double haul?


Yes, I would like that very much. On good days with the right swell
(gutters in close) these distances are unnecessary but I'm finding
with time on the water these days are rather more rare than my
initial experiences would have me believe - 150ft would
be very useful indeed.

"The ease with which I could reach out close to a 100 feet and cast
over incoming breakers, set some to thinking."


Steve (tick, tick, tick ...)


and when I mentioned my sore shoulder, it was from using a single
hander. I went over to the two-hander to give my shoulder a rest.

The ST. Croix I was using isn't much of an overhead rod. My Daiwa
Lochmor X is designed as an overhead rod and is far more effective
than the St. Croix.



Peter

turn mailhot into hotmail to reply

Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharl...ers/index.html

In article , Peter Charles
wrote:

Penny dropped.

SNIP


Give it a few years Lazarus and, except for some UK diehards, we'll be
back to only one type of rod.


Yes, it took me a while (I've only just seen the two posts where you
explained it) to realize that we've been arguing at cross-purposes.

I think, though, that for once a certain amount of light was generated
along with the heat!

Very interesting. Thanks for the discussion.

I must admit that I tend to the European tendency of being ridiculously
old-fashioned (I still fish (sometimes) for trout with cane and silk),
and I fish fairly elderly Bruce and Walker salmon rods. For some
reason, while most British fishers like Hardy for trout, there's been a
tendency - probably encouraged by the great recent writers on salmon
such as Hugh Falkus - to favour Bruce and Walker for salmon.

I haven't fished the new salmon rods. I only fish my Sage 3 8 9s
because I was once in "City tackle" or something like that in New York,
and the owner persuaded me to buy one. One of the best purchases I've
ever made.

:Lazarus

--
Remover the rock from the email address

On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 15:31:51 +0000, Lazarus Cooke
wrote:

In article , Peter Charles
wrote:

Penny dropped.

SNIP


Give it a few years Lazarus and, except for some UK diehards, we'll be
back to only one type of rod.


Yes, it took me a while (I've only just seen the two posts where you
explained it) to realize that we've been arguing at cross-purposes.

I think, though, that for once a certain amount of light was generated
along with the heat!

Very interesting. Thanks for the discussion.

I must admit that I tend to the European tendency of being ridiculously
old-fashioned (I still fish (sometimes) for trout with cane and silk),
and I fish fairly elderly Bruce and Walker salmon rods. For some
reason, while most British fishers like Hardy for trout, there's been a
tendency - probably encouraged by the great recent writers on salmon
such as Hugh Falkus - to favour Bruce and Walker for salmon.

I haven't fished the new salmon rods. I only fish my Sage 3 8 9s
because I was once in "City tackle" or something like that in New York,
and the owner persuaded me to buy one. One of the best purchases I've
ever made.

:Lazarus


If your interested in reading a bit more about the North American
approach to these rods, the http://speypages.com/ is a good place to
start. Dana is a Canuck working out of BC and he fishes the Thompson
among others, for steelhead through much of the year. There are some
videos on the site, describing various casts.

Ed Ward's article is a pretty good explanation of the evolution of the
North American Skagit style casts.
http://home.att.net/~slowsnap/spey16.htm



Peter

turn mailhot into hotmail to reply

Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharl...ers/index.html

On 25 Nov 2003 04:53:21 GMT, Stephen Welsh
wrote:

Peter Charles wrote in
:

No joke, my 15'6" 11 wt. is easier to cast all day than my 9' -
10 wt. It's all about length, two hands, and good technique.
Well, come to think of it, there's a few things in life that
this fits but it's also true for two-handed fly rods.

;-)

How would
you like to cast a line 150' with less effort than it takes to
double haul?


Yes, I would like that very much. On good days with the right swell
(gutters in close) these distances are unnecessary but I'm finding
with time on the water these days are rather more rare than my
initial experiences would have me believe - 150ft would
be very useful indeed.

"The ease with which I could reach out close to a 100 feet and cast
over incoming breakers, set some to thinking."


Steve (tick, tick, tick ...)


Got to the http://speypages.com/speypages.htm and check out the
seventh video where Henrik Mortensen demonstrates the underhand cast.
This video also describes the basic powerstroke of the overhead cast
with a two-hander. Note how is bottom hand isn't even gripping the
rod -- how effortless the stroke. This stroke would produce a 100'+
cast with ease.



Peter

turn mailhot into hotmail to reply

Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharl...ers/index.html