Level-wind?

How does one wind in line on a multiplier without level-wind?
Surely a lot of distance is lost through uneven winding?

Newcomer to sea-fishing looking at reels: considering Penn or Diawa reels at
the moment. Any advice.
Rocky shores with some beaches in this part of N-W Scotland.

Cheers

Angus

"Angus Robins" wrote in message
...
How does one wind in line on a multiplier without level-wind?
Surely a lot of distance is lost through uneven winding?

Newcomer to sea-fishing looking at reels: considering Penn or Diawa reels
at the moment. Any advice.
Rocky shores with some beaches in this part of N-W Scotland.

Cheers

Angus


Hi Angus,

If you're right handed you wind the handle with your right hand with the
reel on top of the rod, your left hand holds the rod just under and in
front of the reel and you use your left thumb to guide the line evenly back
onto the reel.

If you want distance then you definately don't want a level-wind ;-) With
practice you can get the line back on the spool just as evenly by hand as
with a level-wind, and even of the wind is a bit uneven you won't lose much
distance because of it. You will lose more distance by having a level-wind
as the mechanism will cause friction as the spool rotates during the cast -
also the level-wind will prevent you getting your thumb right over the spool
for a good grip.

Don't know much about Penn reels but I do like Diawa. I have a couple of old
7HTs in the tackle box and they are awesome. They aren't as fast as
something like an ABU 6500CT but they are much more 'fishable'. The 6500CTs
are great for distance but can be a bit fiery, whereas the 7HT will still
cast well but isn't so 'artistic' - especially with the wind in your face.
Having said that I have still managed over 200 yards on the tournament court
with a 7HT ;-)

If you're looking to fish rough ground from the shore then the Diawa SL20SH
or SL30SH ( SLOSHES ) are good for that. They are heavy duty casting reels
( they have centrifugal brakes inside ) the 30 being the heavier of the two.
You can load them up with 30lb line and really bully fish out of rocky areas
with them. I've got the 30 and it's retrieve ratio is brilliant - two or
three turns of the handle and the fish are on the surface.

Penn do similar reels to the 6500CT, 7HT & Sloshes but like I said I have
never tried them. They are supposed to be pretty good though, maybe
someone else can talk with experience ;-)

Cheers - ETV

In article , Angus Robins
wrote:
How does one wind in line on a multiplier without level-wind?
Surely a lot of distance is lost through uneven winding?

Newcomer to sea-fishing looking at reels: considering Penn or Diawa reels at
the moment. Any advice.
Rocky shores with some beaches in this part of N-W Scotland.

Oops! You've been reading the wrong magazines.

[ Long range beachcasting is a specialist technique that you only need to
consider if you have very flat, featureless beaches and the fish swim at
extreme range. It so happens that there are a few venues like this near
London and home counties journalists naturally write about the conditions
they experience. Most anglers in the west - with a few exceptions in
Lancashire/Cumbria - could fish successfully for a lifetime without even
owning a conventional beachcaster. OK, most do use one sometimes when
fishing is slow or the whiting are running.
]

I'd be surprised if you wanted to bottom fish your area for much of the year
- unless you're fond of dogfish. Even so, in many places an 80 yard cast
will put you beyond the fish so level wind drag will be too small to
measure.

For the next couple of months concentrate on spinning and floatfishing.
Leave the bottom gear at home 'til you hear of a few decent catches.

And in rocky, graunchy or snaggy areas you need to retrieve as quickly as
possible so a big fixed-spool reel might be of more use to you than a
multiplier.

Hth. Cheerio,

--

Angus,

Whilst it is absolutely true a level-wind reduces distance I'd
say that is only a meaningful statement for those wishing to blast
a lead 150yds plus.

I've fished for years, on both coasts of Scotland, with and without
a level-wind, and my preference is to have one as it allows me to
focus on playing the fish rather than setting the line correctly.
Also the fact that the level-wind does inhibit the cast a little
actually helps control the cast.

BTW, given that a lot of waters around Scotland are deep close in,
remember that you can actually 'overcast', fish are closer than
you may think.

As for reel choice, my own preference is ABU.



Angus Robins wrote:
How does one wind in line on a multiplier without level-wind?
Surely a lot of distance is lost through uneven winding?

Newcomer to sea-fishing looking at reels: considering Penn or Diawa reels at
the moment. Any advice.
Rocky shores with some beaches in this part of N-W Scotland.

Cheers

Angus

Having both an Abu 6500C with level wind and a Mag Elite CT without, I am
now looking for a Hybrid reel ie one with a level wind but with the
additional space to get a solid thumb grip on the spool as offered by the
CT.
Then I'll have the best of both worlds.
It will have to be an ABU though 'cos I love 'em both to bits..
Any suggestions and I'll try to get a prototype conversion made.
Tight Lines
Keith M


"seaside" wrote in message
...
Angus,

Whilst it is absolutely true a level-wind reduces distance I'd
say that is only a meaningful statement for those wishing to blast
a lead 150yds plus.

I've fished for years, on both coasts of Scotland, with and without
a level-wind, and my preference is to have one as it allows me to
focus on playing the fish rather than setting the line correctly.
Also the fact that the level-wind does inhibit the cast a little
actually helps control the cast.

BTW, given that a lot of waters around Scotland are deep close in,
remember that you can actually 'overcast', fish are closer than
you may think.

As for reel choice, my own preference is ABU.



Angus Robins wrote:
How does one wind in line on a multiplier without level-wind?
Surely a lot of distance is lost through uneven winding?

Newcomer to sea-fishing looking at reels: considering Penn or Diawa reels
at the moment. Any advice.
Rocky shores with some beaches in this part of N-W Scotland.

Cheers

Angus

"seaside" wrote in message
...
Angus,

Whilst it is absolutely true a level-wind reduces distance I'd
say that is only a meaningful statement for those wishing to blast
a lead 150yds plus.

I've fished for years, on both coasts of Scotland, with and without
a level-wind, and my preference is to have one as it allows me to
focus on playing the fish rather than setting the line correctly.
Also the fact that the level-wind does inhibit the cast a little
actually helps control the cast.


snip

How does the level wind inhibiting the cast help to control it exactly?

ETV

"Derek.Moody" wrote in message
...

[ Long range beachcasting is a specialist technique that you only need to
consider if you have very flat, featureless beaches and the fish swim at
extreme range. It so happens that there are a few venues like this near
London and home counties journalists naturally write about the conditions
they experience. Most anglers in the west - with a few exceptions in
Lancashire/Cumbria - could fish successfully for a lifetime without even
owning a conventional beachcaster. OK, most do use one sometimes when
fishing is slow or the whiting are running.
]

Utter bilge.

Longe range casting isn't just for casting long ranges. When fishing into
the wind the ability to put some extra power behind the cast ( long range
techniques ) allows you to put the lead out far enough to get into calmer
water and get a grip on the bottom. Under such conditions you may still
only be getting 40yds - but anglers than can't cast as far end up packing up
and going home.

If you can cast long distances you have the option of fishing close in, or
far out. Anglers that cannot cast long distances can only fish close in.
The whole point is widening your options, if your limited to short range
you had better hope the fish are close in.

Furthermore distance casting in itself has developed into a sport enjoyed by
many anglers. The process of learning and prefecting the pendulum cast or
the back cast are both enjoyable and rewarding. Same goes for fly fishing,
the casting technique takes years to master but half the fun is in improving
your casting style and getting better at it each time you go.

With respect to beachcasters, what beaches do you fish on where the anglers
"use one sometimes when fishing is slow or the whiting are running"? Have
you been fishing since the 60's? Blimey even Mackerel fishermen use
beachcasters. I don't think I have fished a single shore match that didn't
feature dozens of beachcasters.

What strangely misguided advice.

ETV

Whilst not fully appreciating some of the points offered here I feel that
the response has been an enlightening one for me. I have gleaned some useful
stuff; however, am now asking more questions! Such is the price of progress!
BTW are dogfish a nuisance...I thought that they might offer a good bit of
sport on the right tackle and I was hoping that I might stand a chance of a
shore caught Tope. Perhaps I'm being a little over-optimistic: beginners
gusto, ignorance or something similar.
However, all I own are present are some carp rods, so I'll have to get
something to handle larger baits, weights and rough conditions. I'll listen
carefully to any more snippets on the pros and cons of multipliers but why
not use an 11' or 12', 4 - 6oz beachcaster even for quite close-in rocky
shore work? I was quite used to handling carp from the margins on a rod of
that length.

Thanks again for the advice and entertainment so far...much appreciated.

Angus
Applecross

"Eric The Viking" wrote in message
news:4325f0d2.0@entanet...

"seaside" wrote in message
...
Angus,

Whilst it is absolutely true a level-wind reduces distance I'd
say that is only a meaningful statement for those wishing to blast
a lead 150yds plus.

I've fished for years, on both coasts of Scotland, with and without
a level-wind, and my preference is to have one as it allows me to
focus on playing the fish rather than setting the line correctly.
Also the fact that the level-wind does inhibit the cast a little
actually helps control the cast.


snip

How does the level wind inhibiting the cast help to control it exactly?

ETV

Hi Angus,

Not sure about the specifics of fishing in Scotland, have only 'angled'
there half a dozen times when working near Faslane - and that was only when
I could slope away from work for a bit ;-)

Dogfish can be a right menace, speaking from the South West there are times
when your bait doesn't even hit the bottom before a Dogfish is on your it.
The real menace is when you're Cod fishing and you put about 3 quids worth
of quality black lug and peeler on the hook only to have it intercepted by a
Dogfish. Having said that, there are nights when you'd be glad of a
Dogfish - just to prove that there is life in the Sea ;-) Must admit I've
never tried them on light tackle but even on heavy gear a brace of 3 Dogfish
at a time gives you something to wind in.

Personally I own all kinds of rods but my favorites are a Diawa AWB 129 and
a Diawa TDXS 129 - both 12' 9" beachcasters. They are powerful enough for
the kind of "Long Range" antics described earlier, but are also good close
in - a rod only casts as far as you want it to ;-) The downside of using a
12' beachcaster is that you lose a lot of the enjoyment of the fight. The
heavier the rod is the bigger the fish you need to catch to put a bend in
it. If you catch a 10lb Bass on a carp rod the scrap would be immense, on
a 12' beachcaster the rod will tend to tire the fish very quickly and almost
bully it into submisison.

I do a lot of heavy rock fishing all along the Dorset coast and usually use
a really heavy beachcaster ( Conoflex Tournament Extreme ). It's more of a
scaffolding pole than a rod really but teamed up with a SLOSH 30 with 30lb
mainline straight through it will cope with the roughest environments. The
main use for this rig is Wrasse fishing ( not sure if you get many Wrasse in
Scotland? ). With Wrasse, they tend to grab the bait and dive straight under
a house sized rock, the only way to get them up is with animal gear and a
fast retrieve reel to keep them above the bottom. I'm not talking about the
6 - inchers you get on a float fished ragworm but the 4lb plus fish that
would give a Spanish trawler a fright ;-) The other use for this gear is
fishing for Congers from the shore - again it's a 'Take no prisoners' form
of angling. One good benefit of a heavy rod is that you have more chance of
craning up a fish if you are fishing from a high ledge.

If you already have a selection of carp rods, you're already setup for
spinning and float fishing - even light legering. You could get yourself a
12' beach caster for heavier fishing and it would compliment your existing
kit nicely.

The choice of Fixed spool or multiplier is down to personal preference
really. Multipliers are more difficult to start on as they tend to 'fluff
up' on you when you cast them. Out of the box the ABUs are more likely to
birds nest during a cast than the Diawa 7HT but the ABU reels are more of a
racehorse and are more highly strung. The topic of level winds has been
covered so I won't go there again ;-) But if you decide on a multiplier be
prepared for loads of 'fluff ups' for the first few casts. It's worth
making sure that a new multiplier has all the brake blocks fitted ( they
have little fibre cylindrical blocks fitted inside one of the reel caps )
unless you get a 'Mag' reel, and it's also worth putting a drop of 10w40
engine oil in each of the bearings to tame things down until you get used to
the casting action. Personally I prefer multipliers but lots of people
swear by and use fixed spools - both have good points and bad points.


ETV


"Angus Robins" wrote in message
...
Whilst not fully appreciating some of the points offered here I feel that
the response has been an enlightening one for me. I have gleaned some
useful stuff; however, am now asking more questions! Such is the price of
progress!
BTW are dogfish a nuisance...I thought that they might offer a good bit of
sport on the right tackle and I was hoping that I might stand a chance of
a shore caught Tope. Perhaps I'm being a little over-optimistic: beginners
gusto, ignorance or something similar.
However, all I own are present are some carp rods, so I'll have to get
something to handle larger baits, weights and rough conditions. I'll
listen carefully to any more snippets on the pros and cons of multipliers
but why not use an 11' or 12', 4 - 6oz beachcaster even for quite
close-in rocky shore work? I was quite used to handling carp from the
margins on a rod of that length.

Thanks again for the advice and entertainment so far...much appreciated.

Angus
Applecross

"Eric The Viking" wrote in message
news:4325f0d2.0@entanet...

"seaside" wrote in message
...
Angus,

Whilst it is absolutely true a level-wind reduces distance I'd
say that is only a meaningful statement for those wishing to blast
a lead 150yds plus.

I've fished for years, on both coasts of Scotland, with and without
a level-wind, and my preference is to have one as it allows me to
focus on playing the fish rather than setting the line correctly.
Also the fact that the level-wind does inhibit the cast a little
actually helps control the cast.


snip

How does the level wind inhibiting the cast help to control it exactly?

ETV

Angus,

..... BTW are dogfish a nuisance...

I'll try an analogy, to some daisies are pretty flowers, to others
they are weeds.

I thought that they might offer a good bit of sport on the right tackle

they can, but like mackerel, if they are around it's pretty difficult
to catch much else, unlike mackerel, they are considered to be *weeds*

and I was hoping that I might stand a chance of a shore caught Tope.
Perhaps I'm being a little over-optimistic

I'm afraid so, it used to be possible at one time, but now 'fraid not,
but that should not stop you trying - you never know

However, all I own are present are some carp rods, so I'll have to get
something to handle larger baits, weights and rough conditions.

True, and asking "which rod" is also a holy grail type question, my
suggestion FWIW, avoid spending a shed load of money initially, just
see a local tackle dealer and get a competent setup to gain experience.

Also sea fishing is not just about chucking heavy leads around, there
are many areas, particularly in Scotland, where spinning, floatfishing
or freelining for mackerel, saithe and sea-trout etc is really good fun.
Your carp rods would be fine for some of that and also for chasing
flatties.