"furled" leaders

Larry L wrote:

looking at the instructions on making one ..... I'd say you are right
....bored when he started, likely half mad by the time he finished

It's not as hard as it looks. I do mine with an old "eggbeater"
hand-drill and simply twist each leg until it shortens enough so that
when it's transferred to the nail it is kept taut. Pick up the two legs
together and reverse the direction of the drill. As you rotate the
drill you will feel the leader start to relax and lengthen. If you go
too far it will start to tighten up again. Simply reverse it for a
couple of turns; when you have the right amount of twist it will simply
lay out flat.

Maybe I'm crazy, but after the first couple of tries, I started to
enjoy myself. I'd put on some music, set the board on my workbench and
in about 30 minutes I'd have a leader.

So it looks like I'm the only ROFFian who admits to using a furled
leader (much less making them). I got a similar reaction when I first
asked about them a while back.


Chuck Vance (who figured they'd at least have some adherents
among the bamboo and silk "crowd")

"Conan the Librarian" wrote

So it looks like I'm the only ROFFian who admits to using a furled
leader (much less making them). I got a similar reaction when I first
asked about them a while back.



I'd like to try one made with UniThread ( but not bad enough to try and make
it :-) but the only ones I see for sale are made of nylon. I seem to be in
constant search for better leader solutions. I fish mainly flat looking,
but actually very complex, water where any added limpness in the leader is a
bonus. But the fish have very narrow feeding lanes so accuracy is
essential, and I'm targeting large fish in weedy water so frail tippets are
a waste of time. On such water, casting distance isn't usually needed and
two pieces of tackle ... the fly and the leader ... are the difference
between success and none .... I'd far prefer to fish a 'crappy POS rod' than
a poor leader on my 'adopted home waters'

I'm pretty happy with my current choices ... i.e. a slightly modified
packaged tapered leader, tippet ring, and longish fairly heavy tippet. But
I can't help wondering if a furled leader would add accuracy to a similar
long tippet package ... and maybe some suppleness to boot

"Larry L" wrote in
:


"Conan the Librarian" wrote

So it looks like I'm the only ROFFian who admits to using a furled
leader (much less making them). I got a similar reaction when I
first asked about them a while back.



I'd like to try one made with UniThread ( but not bad enough to try
and make it :-) but the only ones I see for sale are made of nylon.
I seem to be in constant search for better leader solutions. I fish
mainly flat looking, but actually very complex, water where any added
limpness in the leader is a bonus. But the fish have very narrow
feeding lanes so accuracy is essential, and I'm targeting large fish
in weedy water so frail tippets are a waste of time. On such water,
casting distance isn't usually needed and two pieces of tackle ... the
fly and the leader ... are the difference between success and none
.... I'd far prefer to fish a 'crappy POS rod' than a poor leader on
my 'adopted home waters'

I'm pretty happy with my current choices ... i.e. a slightly modified
packaged tapered leader, tippet ring, and longish fairly heavy tippet.
But I can't help wondering if a furled leader would add accuracy to
a similar long tippet package ... and maybe some suppleness to boot




I'm always shooting for lower profile leaders to promote a dead drift.
My guess would be that the furled leader would be a disaster for sub
surface work.

Scott

Larry L wrote:

I'd like to try one made with UniThread ( but not bad enough to try and make
it :-) but the only ones I see for sale are made of nylon. I seem to be in
constant search for better leader solutions. I fish mainly flat looking,
but actually very complex, water where any added limpness in the leader is a
bonus. But the fish have very narrow feeding lanes so accuracy is
essential, and I'm targeting large fish in weedy water so frail tippets are
a waste of time. On such water, casting distance isn't usually needed and
two pieces of tackle ... the fly and the leader ... are the difference
between success and none .... I'd far prefer to fish a 'crappy POS rod' than
a poor leader on my 'adopted home waters'

I'm pretty happy with my current choices ... i.e. a slightly modified
packaged tapered leader, tippet ring, and longish fairly heavy tippet. But
I can't help wondering if a furled leader would add accuracy to a similar
long tippet package ... and maybe some suppleness to boot

I'll tell you what. I'll look through my stuff and see if I have an
extra furled leader that you can have. If not, when I get some extra
time I'll make one up for you.

Given what you describe, I'm guessing you are fishing about a 5-wt.,
no? A furled leader made of 6/0 Unithread should probably fill that
bill. Do you have any color preferences?

Disclaimer: I have not used mine on heavy fish, so I make no claim
as to how it will hold up. I expect it should be fine, but do not take
responsibility for any lost fish. :-)


Chuck Vance

"Larry L" wrote in message
...
SNIP
I'm pretty happy with my current choices ... i.e. a slightly modified
packaged tapered leader, tippet ring, and longish fairly heavy tippet.
But
I can't help wondering if a furled leader would add accuracy to a similar
long tippet package ... and maybe some suppleness to boot



It would help turnover a little, but it will not make you any more accurate
per se. I have quite a few such leaders. They are marvelous on grass!

Depending on materials and construction, they all suffer from various
disadvantages on water.

TL
MC

"Scott Seidman" wrote


I'm always shooting for lower profile leaders to promote a dead drift.
My guess would be that the furled leader would be a disaster for sub
surface work.



Yes, I'd think so too. Mainly I fish dries, or sit and wait for a hatch.
FWIW, I don't think this is 'better' and I'd like to be a more accomplished
sub surface fisherman. I hope to be able to physically get around better
this next season, as I had two surgeries aimed at that goal. If so, I'll
spend more time trying to improve my nymphing and pocket water skills.

"Mike Connor" wrote



It would help turnover a little, but it will not make you any more
accurate
per se. I have quite a few such leaders. They are marvelous on grass!

Depending on materials and construction, they all suffer from various
disadvantages on water.


Accuracy is my major casting weakness, in my own opinion. Not that I can
cast a long line, OR tricky curves and piles and tight loops. I'm a ****
poor caster period, but I can nearly always compensate for distance and
tricky casting weaknesses by approach and position ( and I like the 'hunter'
element of fishing far more than the golf like 'stoke' elements anyway, I've
always seen casting as a necessary skill, not something to pursue for it's
own sake )

I would be interested in any suggestions you might have for improved
accuracy .... I very often fish in places where 2 inches too far is in the
weeds and 2 inches too short is ignored ... plus at least some drag free
drift is needed after an accurate cast. Honestly, I often go looking for
fish I don't think I can catch, assuming I'm not too hungry from days of
skunkings ... as I type this I can see a lie on Silver Creek that I treid
daily for a week without success :-( .... I think I caught nearly all the
fish NEAR the big one in the 'impossible' spot' but only managed to make him
chuckle.

Anyway, I'm probably off base, but I spend a lot of time thinking about that
last few inches of tippet and how to get it where I want it ... and still
lying with enough curves to absorb some drag ... and still heavy enough to
have a fair chance of turning the fish away from his safe haven.

Here is a report of one of my better memories from last season ... this one
involves sunk flies .... I just love situations like this. If you look at
the photo, I had to crouch on the bank behind the tree leaning over the
water and the fish were tight to, nearly under, the downed trees in water
way too deep to wade. The trees ate a few flies, both those in the water
and those on shore :-(

http://www.kimshew.com/flyfish/displ...php?log_id=118

Anyway, I need to improve my ability to hit THE spot with both dries and
nymphs ... all suggestions appreciated

"Conan the Librarian" wrote in message
...
Larry L wrote:

It's not as hard as it looks. I do mine with an old "eggbeater"
hand-drill and simply twist each leg until it shortens enough so that
when it's transferred to the nail it is kept taut. Pick up the two legs
together and reverse the direction of the drill.

I hung mine from a hook in the ceiling with a weight on it and let it
self-equilibrate. I used a cordless drill and a watch to run the parts one
way then the whole shbang the other. There used to be a really good
dissertation on making them on the Bamboo rodmakers list serv. (Claude
Freener (sp) I think wrote it)


Maybe I'm crazy, but after the first couple of tries, I started to
enjoy myself. I'd put on some music, set the board on my workbench and
in about 30 minutes I'd have a leader.

They are fun to make- and they are fun to fish with, for a while. I seem to
remember that they wern't too great for nymphing, and really bad if it was
cold enought to ice up the guides. But boy are they supple and soft
landing. They do spray- so you have to false cast somewhere else if your on
flat enough water to matter. I tried soaking mine in shoe waterproofing
silicone and couldn't tell that it made any difference. They waterlog
pretty quickly, then they either have to be dried out or changed. I made
mine with 6/0 uni for my 6wt. I also used it on my 4 wt. I seem to
remember that I hade a couple of occasions where they broke a few inches
above the tippet (I used a loop to loop connection I think) - snagged a fly
on a backcast sort of thing- could never figure out why the leader broke and
not the tippet.

i was thinking of trying it with a kevlar tying thread someday :-)

So it looks like I'm the only ROFFian who admits to using a furled
leader (much less making them). I got a similar reaction when I first
asked about them a while back.


Chuck Vance (who figured they'd at least have some adherents
among the bamboo and silk "crowd")

"Larry L" wrote in message
...

SNIP
Anyway, I need to improve my ability to hit THE spot with both dries and
nymphs ... all suggestions appreciated



Well, unfortunately, the only real answer to that, is practice. You also
need to know how to do what you want to achieve BEFORE YOU PRACTICE!.
Furthermore, the more challenging the situation, the more skill is required
to master it.

You may of course, as many, probably most, do, practice while fishing, but
this is rarely a good idea. One is invariably concentrating too hard on
other things, ( like catching fish!), and this is not very good practice for
casting.

Practice just casting, but use your normal setup, ( break the point off the
fly at the bend, file the break flat!!!! Use the same flies you normally
use, and the same leaders). Try casting into frisbees, ( or dinner plates,
whatever), and place the obstacles and problems yourself. Cast next to a
wall, or from a corner by a fence, etc etc.

Learn to cast left handed, ( or right if you are now a left hander). This
is easier if you use two rods, one in each hand. After a short while you
will have built up sufficient muscle and other control memory, so that you
can put one or the other rod down, and still cast just as well with the
other. The time required for this varies considerably from person to
person. Some can do it almost immediately, others need days or weeks. My
wife could do it almost immediately after I showed her, I remember I needed
two weeks of regular practice. Now it is second nature, and I don´t even
think about it much anymore.

Ideally, you should have a pro-caster look at your stroke, and if necessary
improve, or even remodel it entirely. One can indeed catch plenty of fish
without being a very good caster, but not the fish you want to catch.

Winkling fish out of difficult lies, especially large, and usually "per
definition" ( Large=wary), wary fish, is not easy. Even when one becomes
very good indeed, one still will not catch all such fish, maybe not even
half of them, but one will definitely catch a great many more. One will also
catch fish that nobody else can.

Supposing you have access to a suitable pro caster, ( and there are lots of
differences, even among top casters. One may suit you, another may not).
People with qualifications are usually reliable, but not always. Book one
lesson. See how you like it, and the instructor. If OK book more. They are
not usually all that expensive.Tell the instructor exactly what you want,
and why. Don´t book guides!!! They will usually help to catch you plenty of
fish, and may even be very good casters as well, but that is not what you
want, you want to do it yourself. Of course there may be guides who can give
you excellent casting tuition, but YOU MUST MAKE THIS CLEAR TO THEM. You
don´t want to go fishing, you want to learn how to do it better! You merely
require the tools, and in this case, casting is the main one.

You must be certain that the person teaching you can do it. It is useless
learning things from a mediocre caster, you merely ingrain his faults, and
add them to your own.

Of course you may learn alone, but this is far more difficult and time
consuming. Not least because you are not aware of exactly what you are
trying to do, or how to go about it. You can learn these things from books,
articles etc etc. But you will learn fastest and most reliably from an
instructor.

Supposing you do want to learn alone, then the first thing you must do is
decide on how you wish to cast. There are a number of styles, they will
practically all eventually achieve the same ends, but some may suit you
better than others. You also need the right equipment for the style you wish
to use. A long slow lazy casting style is useless with a super fast graphite
rod. You must also learn to visualise and control every single step of your
cast. You must forget what you have been doing up to now, ( which of course
is extremely difficult!), and start from scratch. Putting out a perfectly
controlled short distance straight line cast, with a suitably wrinkled
tippet, must become second nature to you, something you do not even have to
think about. DO NOT TRY ANYTHING ELSE UNTIL YOU HAVE MASTERED THAT! You
should be able to hit a normal saucer with your fly, ten times out of ten,
( barring accidents, wind etc), at ranges of up to thirty feet, with no
particular problems, and no exertion whatsoever, and after a while even the
wind and the "accidents", should not bother you either.

You MUST learn to crawl, before you can walk. If you don´t do this
properly, you will be no better off than you are now, although you may be
able to "muddle through" a bit better.

Much as I would like to help you, and quickly, this is basically asking the
impossible, because the only way to do what you want to do is to study it,
practice it, spend time thinking about it, and then going at it until you
have it off to a fine art. I know people who have managed to become very
good casters in a couple of weeks, practicing up to an hour ( less at first,
don´t exceed twenty minutes practice at first) a day. Others I know have
been having tuition from top people for a long time, and simply can not do
it. Don´t ask me why, I can´t tell you, something is missing in these
people. In order to become really good, one must have the enthusiasm, time
and talent required, and not everybody has these things.

Top casters, ( and at the moment I am no longer in this league, as I have
not practised properly for quite a while), practice every day, sometimes for
hours at a time, just to iron out a single small fault. They of course also
have to be able to recognise the fault, and how to cure it! Many visit
other top casters, and have their strokes analysed, or maybe they are unable
to find a fault themselves, and require assistance from another expert.

This may sound like an awful lot of trouble to go to, and indeed it is, but
it can be done, and will improve your fishing, and your perceived experience
of it immeasurably.

So, choose your style, on your marks, get set,
gooo.............................................. ......

I wish you a most enjoyable journey.

TL
MC

My furled leaders are made from UniThread. I got them really reasonable
a couple of years ago from a nice guy on Ebay.com. I think 3 bucks a
piece?? I used the same leader all last year. I still have it. I think
I had to make a new tippet loop once or twice. I add a length of
fluorocarbon tippet to it. I really like them for wet flys. They were
used on my St. Croiz Pro-Graphite 6/7 weight. Thanks
Mike Bernardoni

Conan the Librarian wrote:

Larry L wrote:

I'd like to try one made with UniThread ( but not bad enough to try and make
it :-) but the only ones I see for sale are made of nylon.

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there’s plenty in the kitchen.
I wonder what the poor people are eating
tonight?
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