Shad flies

Wayne if you want someone to test your new secret super fly send me a
couple. I don't charge for market tests.
Just finished reading John McPhee's The Founding Fish and plan to catch
the first shad going up the local Black River this April.

Caught a bunch in cypress swamp up in Jeff Miller land last spring. But of
course we used spinning gear and darts, with all the roots and trees it
would be worse than casting in a mountain rododeme {?} covered creek.

Tell wife hi--long time no see
Joe McIntosh
8828 Olympic Lane
Wilmington N.C. 28411

"Joe McIntosh" wrote in message
Wayne if you want someone to test your new secret super fly send me a
couple. I don't charge for market tests.
Just finished reading John McPhee's The Founding Fish and plan to catch
the first shad going up the local Black River this April.

Joe, I'll try and remember to put a handfull of "the only shad fly you'll
ever need" in the mail to you.

Joe F.

"Joe McIntosh" wrote in message
...
Just finished reading John McPhee's The Founding Fish and plan to catch
the first shad going up the local Black River this April.

Joe

I read that book as well just a couple weeks ago. What did you think of it.
I was truly surprised at the part the humble American Shad played in our
history. My eyes were really opened by McPhee's writings on catch and
release vs. catch and eat. It was a point of view I hadn't given much
though to

Joe C.

Joe, in a couple of weeks the Embry dam on the Rappahannock will be blown.
This will reopen the historical range of one of America's premier shad
fisheries. In 5 years it may become the hottest shad river in the country
and certainly its fine reputation for smallmouth will go ballistic with the
resurgence of shad fingerlingings each year. When I get a few of these
supersecretshadflys tied up I'll shoot you a couple. Don't show anybody.
This thing isn't even shown around on the river unless there is a blood pact
between the fishermen. Neophytes and casual visitors will never see one.
But YOU, Joe, will have your very own!! Only because of blood exchanged on
W....Creek a few years back!
--
Wayne
To Fish is Human...To Release Divine!

"Joe McIntosh" wrote in message
...
Wayne if you want someone to test your new secret super fly send me a
couple. I don't charge for market tests.
Just finished reading John McPhee's The Founding Fish and plan to catch
the first shad going up the local Black River this April.

Caught a bunch in cypress swamp up in Jeff Miller land last spring. But
of
course we used spinning gear and darts, with all the roots and trees it
would be worse than casting in a mountain rododeme {?} covered creek.

Tell wife hi--long time no see
Joe McIntosh
8828 Olympic Lane
Wilmington N.C. 28411

"Cornmuse" wrote:

"Joe McIntosh" wrote in message
...
Just finished reading John McPhee's The Founding Fish and plan to
catch
the first shad going up the local Black River this April.

Joe

I read that book as well just a couple weeks ago. What did you think
of it.
I was truly surprised at the part the humble American Shad played in
our
history. My eyes were really opened by McPhee's writings on catch and
release vs. catch and eat. It was a point of view I hadn't given much
though to

Joe C.

I read that one too. I think it's chock full of good stuff, but I'm
not fond of his C&R philosophy. I think C&R is like putting out a bird
feeder. If you want a good look at them, you have to trick them. I'm
sure the positives outweigh the negatives. I'm just as sure that
McPhee chose to include the data that met with his opinion and ignored
some other stuff.

Chas
remove fly fish to reply
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Chas Wade wrote:

"Cornmuse" wrote:

"Joe McIntosh" wrote

Just finished reading John McPhee's The Founding Fish

I read that book as well just a couple weeks ago. ......
My eyes were really opened by McPhee's writings on catch and
release vs. catch and eat. It was a point of view I hadn't given much
though to

.......... I'm
not fond of his C&R philosophy. I think C&R is like putting out a bird
feeder. If you want a good look at them, you have to trick them. I'm
sure the positives outweigh the negatives. I'm just as sure that
McPhee chose to include the data that met with his opinion and ignored
some other stuff.

Can you nutshell his C&R views for those of us who haven't read the
book?

JR

"Chas Wade" wrote in message
news:PKKRb.173865$na.285095@attbi_s04...
I think it's chock full of good stuff, but I'm
not fond of his C&R philosophy. I think C&R is like putting out a bird
feeder. If you want a good look at them, you have to trick them. I'm
sure the positives outweigh the negatives. I'm just as sure that
McPhee chose to include the data that met with his opinion and ignored
some other stuff.

Agreed. I can't see how C&R can be a bad thing, though I have to respect
the throrough and coherent manner in which he stated his argument. It made
me stop and think, but certainly not change my mind. I need to run some
errands, but when I get back I will put together a summary of JM's points
for discussion on this board.

Joe C.

"Cornmuse" wrote in message
...

"Chas Wade" wrote in message
news:PKKRb.173865$na.285095@attbi_s04...
I think it's chock full of good stuff, but I'm
not fond of his C&R philosophy. I think C&R is like putting out a bird
feeder. If you want a good look at them, you have to trick them. I'm
sure the positives outweigh the negatives. I'm just as sure that
McPhee chose to include the data that met with his opinion and ignored
some other stuff.

Agreed. I can't see how C&R can be a bad thing, though I have to respect
the throrough and coherent manner in which he stated his argument. It
made
me stop and think, but certainly not change my mind. I need to run some
errands, but when I get back I will put together a summary of JM's points
for discussion on this board.

Joe C.


Okay, I'm back. In his book "The Founding Fish" McPhee goes to great
lengths to quote quite a few resources regarding their opinions on catch and
release. McPhee is quite firmly in the camp of catch and kill for food, and
though I certainly don't want to put words in his mouth, it seems this comes
from a belief that C&R is torturous to the fish. McPhee quotes from PETA,
though also makes efforts to expose the rather ridiculous excesses of their
philosophy. The book is excellently researched and a magnificent read for
its historical placement of this important game fish. The most telling part
regarding his C&R philosophy that I can quote is this:

"To go a shade further than Bryant, catch-and-release fishing may be cruelty
masqerading as political correctness. You can't help wondering what sorts
of things people are doing today that seemed clearly right and good, yet
will one day seem wrong and bad. If I were strolling through the annals of
incorrectness - up past the invertible heroism of General Custer and on
through the safaris of Dennis Finch-Hatton - I would expect to discern, out
in the future, catch-and-release fishing. At its best it is what Thomas
McGuane calls "the thrill of the release, of a trout darting from your
opening hands or resting its weight very slightly in your palms underwater,
then easing off." At its worst it is dire - an unintended failure. In the
words of a shad biologist who works for a firm in Pennsylvania called
Ecology III Environmental Services, "A lot of good Samaritans are killing
fish." You watch a guy in Connecticut catch a shad in a boat. He stickes a
finger in past a gill cover and it comes out the mouth. He lifts the shad
to show its size and beauty, then lowers the shad into the water and removes
his finger. Roughing gills is what biologists call "a pure death sign."
Gill membranes are sensitive, elaborate, and easily broken. Whan they are
damaged, a fish loses its ablity to extract oxygen from water. In a video
called "Fishing for the American Shad," instructor John Punola reaches for a
roe shad, saying, "Shad are very fragile. I can pick him up easily by the
gills." Even the most adroit underwater release can turn loose a fish sick
with stress, destined not to recover. And the more the catch-and-release
angler fumbles - the more he manhandles fish up in air, twisting and yanking
to disgorge the hook- the lower the chance of survival. Boyd Kynard: "That
air-handling time, it's the worst, it's the hardest thing on them."

"Cornmuse" wrote:

... Just the right excerpts snipped ...

Yes, that's the essence of his position. My complaint is that he
doesn't mention any of the statistics we're used to about mortality of
fish released. My favorite one of those is the fact that the cutthroat
trout in the Yellowstone river in the park are caught an average of 9
times per year. Without thinking that thrugh too carefully, a
mortality rate of 10% or higher would remove all the fish each year,
and we know that's not happening.

Another item he doesn't mention is that if we reduced the fishing
enough to keep the population healthy but had a strict catch and kill
regulation, many fewer people would fish, and the advocacy grouop
defending the fish and their ecosystem would be tremendously reduced.

I suspect that different species have different handling mortality.
He's consentrated on shad, and I only know what he wrote about those
fish. He only comments that mishandling is hard on the fish, a well
understood fact. He doesn't mention any statistics about C&R mortality
of shad. I'll give him the benifit of the doubt and suggest that there
aren't any statistics yet.

Chas
remove fly fish to reply
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"Chas Wade" wrote in message
news:k2ZRb.134850$5V2.682516@attbi_s53...
"Cornmuse" wrote:

... Just the right excerpts snipped ...

Yes, that's the essence of his position. My complaint is that he
doesn't mention any of the statistics we're used to about mortality of
fish released. My favorite one of those is the fact that the cutthroat
trout in the Yellowstone river in the park are caught an average of 9
times per year. Without thinking that thrugh too carefully, a
mortality rate of 10% or higher would remove all the fish each year,
and we know that's not happening.

Another item he doesn't mention is that if we reduced the fishing
enough to keep the population healthy but had a strict catch and kill
regulation, many fewer people would fish, and the advocacy grouop
defending the fish and their ecosystem would be tremendously reduced.

I suspect that different species have different handling mortality.
He's consentrated on shad, and I only know what he wrote about those
fish. He only comments that mishandling is hard on the fish, a well
understood fact. He doesn't mention any statistics about C&R mortality
of shad. I'll give him the benifit of the doubt and suggest that there
aren't any statistics yet.

I suspect that if Mr. McPhee had come armed with a boatload of statistics
you'd have no trouble at all in dismissing them.

I learned a long time ago that there is an enormous surplus of fools in this
world. There are, in fact, so many that one can always find plenty on every
side of every issue. Naturally, it follows that whatever stance I, for
example, might take on any issue, there are innumerable fools who agree as
well as an approximately equal number who disagree. I got a shiny new
nickel say you can guess which group concerns me more.

Wolfgang
who, it will be apparent, is not afraid to take an occasional risk with one
of his precious nickels.