Question about loop leaders?

Stev writes:

I take it that you found these satisfactory but not at all essential?

I look upon it as just another gadget. As far as gadgets go, I think the
leader link has it beat all to hell. I'll stick with the nail knot and a
perfection loop.

Stev writes:

I take it that you found these satisfactory but not at all essential?

I look upon it as just another gadget. As far as gadgets go, I think the
leader link has it beat all to hell. I'll stick with the nail knot and a
perfection loop.

"Dave LaCourse" wrote in message
...
SNIP
There are other options for connecting fly line to leader. Eagle make
leader
connectors which are small plastic thingies where the fly line is passed
through and a simply knot made to hold it from slipping out. The leader
is
also passed through the opposite end of the leader link and a simply knot
holds
it in place. Lots of folks on roff use this method.

SNIP
I've tried all the above methods but prefer the nail knot with a
perfection
loop at the other end of the short piece of mono.

ymmv, of course.

Dave

There are methods, and there are methods, some are cheap and easy, and some
are expensive and occasionally somewhat less than optimally efficacious. By
and large, and assuming that one does it properly, I agree with what he and
Ken said!

TL
MC

"Dave LaCourse" wrote in message
...
SNIP
There are other options for connecting fly line to leader. Eagle make
leader
connectors which are small plastic thingies where the fly line is passed
through and a simply knot made to hold it from slipping out. The leader
is
also passed through the opposite end of the leader link and a simply knot
holds
it in place. Lots of folks on roff use this method.

SNIP
I've tried all the above methods but prefer the nail knot with a
perfection
loop at the other end of the short piece of mono.

ymmv, of course.

Dave

There are methods, and there are methods, some are cheap and easy, and some
are expensive and occasionally somewhat less than optimally efficacious. By
and large, and assuming that one does it properly, I agree with what he and
Ken said!

TL
MC

On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 10:51:42 -0700, "Tom Nakashima"
wrote:


"Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message
om...
Tom Nakashima wrote:
To loop or not to loop?
Are there disadvantages or advantages to the loop leader besides quick
change?

Whoa, it's just like deja vu all over again. ;-)

--
Ken Fortenberry

sorry about that, didn't know I hit a sore subject, is there an FAQ that you
could lead me to read about this?
-tom

I'm sure there is a FAQ somewhere that will completely disagree with a
FAQ somewhere else. Let me make it easy for you - in most cases, loops
suck. OTOH, if you wish to use them, that's why there's chocolate and
vanilla...

TC,
R

On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 10:51:42 -0700, "Tom Nakashima"
wrote:


"Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message
om...
Tom Nakashima wrote:
To loop or not to loop?
Are there disadvantages or advantages to the loop leader besides quick
change?

Whoa, it's just like deja vu all over again. ;-)

--
Ken Fortenberry

sorry about that, didn't know I hit a sore subject, is there an FAQ that you
could lead me to read about this?
-tom

I'm sure there is a FAQ somewhere that will completely disagree with a
FAQ somewhere else. Let me make it easy for you - in most cases, loops
suck. OTOH, if you wish to use them, that's why there's chocolate and
vanilla...

TC,
R

"Dave LaCourse" wrote in message
...
Tom Nakashima writes:

The knots I know how to tie, and I never use the loops, I cut them off.
I was wondering if there's a difference in the way the fly is presented
with
loop leaders

Some folks insist that a loop connection can produce a hinge effect when
casting. I have used the mesh "Chinese finger trap" connectors Orvis
likes so
much, and loops made from mono that has been nail knotted to the fly line.
I
have never experienced this "hinge effect", however, I can understand how
it
got started. If the finger trap mesh thingy is installed improperly, it
could
hinge when the line is not forced all the way to the loops end before
securing
it.


No reason to let this thread die out just because the question that wasn't
asked has been answered!

I think all this discussion about the hinge effect is BS. I only use leader
looks, and after a few hours of fishing, the two mating loops so totally
enmesh themselves into each other that no hinging is possible. Besides, if
you look closely at how two loops join, the hinge effect is only possible in
one direction anyway, and the probablilty of the line unfolding in that
specific orientation is pretty tiny (but this is irrelevant as the loops get
'set' and do not flex after awhile anyway).

The real problems I experience with leader loops a
1) The knots seem to gather all the crud in the world. If I'm retrieving
deep through mush, the leader comes up all stringy with the stuff. If I'm
dryflying through floaties, same story. Cutting the tags close doesn't seem
to solve the problem, as the gunk gets caught up in the little loops
themselves.

2) When I'm stringing up my rod, or if I accidentally reel in too much line
(usually when I have a long leader on), its very difficult to pull the line
back out through the tip top. I have to hold the rod out at arm's length and
the line out at arms length in the other direction, and wiggle the line
until the tag on the perfection loop hops through. I have read about people
snapping their tips doing this, and that always worries me.

I could coat the knots with sealer, but then that's just another mass of
goop making my leader offbalance, and splashing on my casts.

I now swap leaders out far less often than I did when I was a newbie, so I'm
going to cut off all my leader loops, tie a good butt section onto the line
with a nail knot, and then tie on the leaders with another nail knot. Now
that I've been fishing with Vaughan, I've discovered that I love them nail
knots! I don't even do surgeon's knots anymore.

--riverman

"Dave LaCourse" wrote in message
...
Tom Nakashima writes:

The knots I know how to tie, and I never use the loops, I cut them off.
I was wondering if there's a difference in the way the fly is presented
with
loop leaders

Some folks insist that a loop connection can produce a hinge effect when
casting. I have used the mesh "Chinese finger trap" connectors Orvis
likes so
much, and loops made from mono that has been nail knotted to the fly line.
I
have never experienced this "hinge effect", however, I can understand how
it
got started. If the finger trap mesh thingy is installed improperly, it
could
hinge when the line is not forced all the way to the loops end before
securing
it.


No reason to let this thread die out just because the question that wasn't
asked has been answered!

I think all this discussion about the hinge effect is BS. I only use leader
looks, and after a few hours of fishing, the two mating loops so totally
enmesh themselves into each other that no hinging is possible. Besides, if
you look closely at how two loops join, the hinge effect is only possible in
one direction anyway, and the probablilty of the line unfolding in that
specific orientation is pretty tiny (but this is irrelevant as the loops get
'set' and do not flex after awhile anyway).

The real problems I experience with leader loops a
1) The knots seem to gather all the crud in the world. If I'm retrieving
deep through mush, the leader comes up all stringy with the stuff. If I'm
dryflying through floaties, same story. Cutting the tags close doesn't seem
to solve the problem, as the gunk gets caught up in the little loops
themselves.

2) When I'm stringing up my rod, or if I accidentally reel in too much line
(usually when I have a long leader on), its very difficult to pull the line
back out through the tip top. I have to hold the rod out at arm's length and
the line out at arms length in the other direction, and wiggle the line
until the tag on the perfection loop hops through. I have read about people
snapping their tips doing this, and that always worries me.

I could coat the knots with sealer, but then that's just another mass of
goop making my leader offbalance, and splashing on my casts.

I now swap leaders out far less often than I did when I was a newbie, so I'm
going to cut off all my leader loops, tie a good butt section onto the line
with a nail knot, and then tie on the leaders with another nail knot. Now
that I've been fishing with Vaughan, I've discovered that I love them nail
knots! I don't even do surgeon's knots anymore.

--riverman

riverman wrote:



No reason to let this thread die out just because the question that wasn't
asked has been answered!

I think all this discussion about the hinge effect is BS. I only use leader
looks, and after a few hours of fishing, the two mating loops so totally
enmesh themselves into each other that no hinging is possible. Besides, if
you look closely at how two loops join, the hinge effect is only possible in
one direction anyway, and the probablilty of the line unfolding in that
specific orientation is pretty tiny (but this is irrelevant as the loops get
'set' and do not flex after awhile anyway).

The real problems I experience with leader loops a
1) The knots seem to gather all the crud in the world. If I'm retrieving
deep through mush, the leader comes up all stringy with the stuff. If I'm
dryflying through floaties, same story. Cutting the tags close doesn't seem
to solve the problem, as the gunk gets caught up in the little loops
themselves.

2) When I'm stringing up my rod, or if I accidentally reel in too much line
(usually when I have a long leader on), its very difficult to pull the line
back out through the tip top. I have to hold the rod out at arm's length and
the line out at arms length in the other direction, and wiggle the line
until the tag on the perfection loop hops through. I have read about people
snapping their tips doing this, and that always worries me.

I could coat the knots with sealer, but then that's just another mass of
goop making my leader offbalance, and splashing on my casts.

I now swap leaders out far less often than I did when I was a newbie, so I'm
going to cut off all my leader loops, tie a good butt section onto the line
with a nail knot, and then tie on the leaders with another nail knot. Now
that I've been fishing with Vaughan, I've discovered that I love them nail
knots! I don't even do surgeon's knots anymore.


That's what I do. I find it works well. Nail knots with heavy tippet are
easy to tie. Never tried tried loops because I don't see any significant
advantages and for some reason, the loops seem to me out of place.

Willi

Riverman writes:

No reason to let this thread die out just because the question that wasn't
asked has been answered!

Well, the question that *was* asked has been answered.

As far as hinging is concerned, I have never experienced it. But/however, I
have heard talk about improperly installed mesh loop connectors (the Chinese
finger trap thingies that Orvis loves) having a hinge effect. If there is not
a continuity from line to leader, a hinge could occur. If you use the mesh
loops, ensure that the fly line is inserted all the way to the loop part of the
connector. Then it won't hinge.