Question about loop leaders?

On 15 Oct 2004 20:55:54 GMT, irate (Dave LaCourse)
wrote:

Stev writes:

I take it that you found these satisfactory but not at all essential?

I look upon it as just another gadget. As far as gadgets go, I think the
leader link has it beat all to hell. I'll stick with the nail knot and a
perfection loop.



Heavy mono and loops or braided loops with the fly line tip pushed
into the overlapped section and the nail knotted to the fly line
(never trust the heat shrink tube). I use one nail knot right at the
end of the braid for trout and two nail knots for heavier fish.

If a loop system, on the end of a spey line, can turn over a 15' mono
leader and big fly, when cast into the wind, then the hinge theory is
truly BS. It does and it is.



Peter

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riverman wrote:
"rw" wrote in message
m...

Dave LaCourse wrote:

The San Juan clave: you enjoyed fishing the Kiddie Hole for beat up old
trout
that didn't fight when they were hooked. They had been caught so many
times
they were little more than pets. But, there you were, in the middle of
them,
doing the San Juan Shuffle. Pathetic.

I have a photograph of you fishing in the Kiddie Hole. I think you were
trying to snag floaters.



Hey, whats wrong with the Kiddie Hole? Charlie Choc and I started there our
second day at the Juan this summer, and for about an hour we were the only
people out of about 10 who passed through who caught any fish at all, and we
were hauling them in. It was a blast! I have fond memories of that spot.

Ask the ****heel. Virtually everyone who fishes the San Juan makes at
least a few casts at the Kiddie Hole. Some people camp out there all day.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

riverman wrote:
"rw" wrote in message
m...

Dave LaCourse wrote:

The San Juan clave: you enjoyed fishing the Kiddie Hole for beat up old
trout
that didn't fight when they were hooked. They had been caught so many
times
they were little more than pets. But, there you were, in the middle of
them,
doing the San Juan Shuffle. Pathetic.

I have a photograph of you fishing in the Kiddie Hole. I think you were
trying to snag floaters.



Hey, whats wrong with the Kiddie Hole? Charlie Choc and I started there our
second day at the Juan this summer, and for about an hour we were the only
people out of about 10 who passed through who caught any fish at all, and we
were hauling them in. It was a blast! I have fond memories of that spot.

Ask the ****heel. Virtually everyone who fishes the San Juan makes at
least a few casts at the Kiddie Hole. Some people camp out there all day.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

riverman wrote:
"rw" wrote in message
m...

Dave LaCourse wrote:

The San Juan clave: you enjoyed fishing the Kiddie Hole for beat up old
trout
that didn't fight when they were hooked. They had been caught so many
times
they were little more than pets. But, there you were, in the middle of
them,
doing the San Juan Shuffle. Pathetic.

I have a photograph of you fishing in the Kiddie Hole. I think you were
trying to snag floaters.



Hey, whats wrong with the Kiddie Hole? Charlie Choc and I started there our
second day at the Juan this summer, and for about an hour we were the only
people out of about 10 who passed through who caught any fish at all, and we
were hauling them in. It was a blast! I have fond memories of that spot.

Ask the ****heel. Virtually everyone who fishes the San Juan makes at
least a few casts at the Kiddie Hole. Some people camp out there all day.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 11:16:46 -0400, Peter Charles
wrote:

On 15 Oct 2004 20:55:54 GMT, irate (Dave LaCourse)
wrote:

Stev writes:

I take it that you found these satisfactory but not at all essential?

I look upon it as just another gadget. As far as gadgets go, I think the
leader link has it beat all to hell. I'll stick with the nail knot and a
perfection loop.



Heavy mono and loops or braided loops with the fly line tip pushed
into the overlapped section and the nail knotted to the fly line
(never trust the heat shrink tube). I use one nail knot right at the
end of the braid for trout and two nail knots for heavier fish.

If a loop system, on the end of a spey line, can turn over a 15' mono
leader and big fly, when cast into the wind, then the hinge theory is
truly BS. It does and it is.

Um, I'm not defending the "hinge theory," but assuming it has some
merit, it would be easier to present a larger (and heavier) fly...

TC,
R



Peter

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Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharl...ers/index.html

On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 11:16:46 -0400, Peter Charles
wrote:

On 15 Oct 2004 20:55:54 GMT, irate (Dave LaCourse)
wrote:

Stev writes:

I take it that you found these satisfactory but not at all essential?

I look upon it as just another gadget. As far as gadgets go, I think the
leader link has it beat all to hell. I'll stick with the nail knot and a
perfection loop.



Heavy mono and loops or braided loops with the fly line tip pushed
into the overlapped section and the nail knotted to the fly line
(never trust the heat shrink tube). I use one nail knot right at the
end of the braid for trout and two nail knots for heavier fish.

If a loop system, on the end of a spey line, can turn over a 15' mono
leader and big fly, when cast into the wind, then the hinge theory is
truly BS. It does and it is.

Um, I'm not defending the "hinge theory," but assuming it has some
merit, it would be easier to present a larger (and heavier) fly...

TC,
R



Peter

turn mailhot into hotmail to reply

Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharl...ers/index.html

On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 15:48:53 GMT, wrote:

On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 11:16:46 -0400, Peter Charles
wrote:

On 15 Oct 2004 20:55:54 GMT, irate (Dave LaCourse)
wrote:

Stev writes:

I take it that you found these satisfactory but not at all essential?

I look upon it as just another gadget. As far as gadgets go, I think the
leader link has it beat all to hell. I'll stick with the nail knot and a
perfection loop.



Heavy mono and loops or braided loops with the fly line tip pushed
into the overlapped section and the nail knotted to the fly line
(never trust the heat shrink tube). I use one nail knot right at the
end of the braid for trout and two nail knots for heavier fish.

If a loop system, on the end of a spey line, can turn over a 15' mono
leader and big fly, when cast into the wind, then the hinge theory is
truly BS. It does and it is.

Um, I'm not defending the "hinge theory," but assuming it has some
merit, it would be easier to present a larger (and heavier) fly...


Larger is not always heavier -- low water salmon hooks are quite light
for their size. A full dressed fly on them is quite wind resistant
without a lot of mass. Anyway, yesterday while practicing, I was
casting a "fluffy" (egg yarn on the end of the tippet) into a stiff
wind and it turned over OK.

Peter

turn mailhot into hotmail to reply

Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharl...ers/index.html

On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 15:48:53 GMT, wrote:

On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 11:16:46 -0400, Peter Charles
wrote:

On 15 Oct 2004 20:55:54 GMT, irate (Dave LaCourse)
wrote:

Stev writes:

I take it that you found these satisfactory but not at all essential?

I look upon it as just another gadget. As far as gadgets go, I think the
leader link has it beat all to hell. I'll stick with the nail knot and a
perfection loop.



Heavy mono and loops or braided loops with the fly line tip pushed
into the overlapped section and the nail knotted to the fly line
(never trust the heat shrink tube). I use one nail knot right at the
end of the braid for trout and two nail knots for heavier fish.

If a loop system, on the end of a spey line, can turn over a 15' mono
leader and big fly, when cast into the wind, then the hinge theory is
truly BS. It does and it is.

Um, I'm not defending the "hinge theory," but assuming it has some
merit, it would be easier to present a larger (and heavier) fly...


Larger is not always heavier -- low water salmon hooks are quite light
for their size. A full dressed fly on them is quite wind resistant
without a lot of mass. Anyway, yesterday while practicing, I was
casting a "fluffy" (egg yarn on the end of the tippet) into a stiff
wind and it turned over OK.

Peter

turn mailhot into hotmail to reply

Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharl...ers/index.html

"Peter Charles" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 15:48:53 GMT, wrote:


Heavy mono and loops or braided loops with the fly line tip pushed
into the overlapped section and the nail knotted to the fly line
(never trust the heat shrink tube). I use one nail knot right at the
end of the braid for trout and two nail knots for heavier fish.

If a loop system, on the end of a spey line, can turn over a 15' mono
leader and big fly, when cast into the wind, then the hinge theory is
truly BS. It does and it is.

Um, I'm not defending the "hinge theory," but assuming it has some
merit, it would be easier to present a larger (and heavier) fly...


Larger is not always heavier -- low water salmon hooks are quite light
for their size. A full dressed fly on them is quite wind resistant
without a lot of mass. Anyway, yesterday while practicing, I was
casting a "fluffy" (egg yarn on the end of the tippet) into a stiff
wind and it turned over OK.

Hmm, a corollary to rejecting the Hinge Theory then might be to reject the
philosophy of not jumping tippet weights too drastically, then. The Hinge
Theory (as I recently gathered) isn't saying that the two loops will cause a
hinge where they interact (that is BS, imho), but its saying that if you
don't seat your line deeply enough into the base of the loop, that few
centimeters of flimsy material will make a 360-degree hinge and screw up
your casts.

The philosophy of not skipping too many tippet weights is supposed to be for
the same reason. I learned that, when you tie on a tippet, to push the two
different sides together and make the tippet curl in a section including the
knot. If the weights are not too far apart, the two pieces will both curve
and you'll have a nice semicircle. If one is too thin, then it will 'hinge'
at the knot, and the result is that the tippet won't turn over correctly. Is
this also BS?

--riverman

"Peter Charles" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 15:48:53 GMT, wrote:


Heavy mono and loops or braided loops with the fly line tip pushed
into the overlapped section and the nail knotted to the fly line
(never trust the heat shrink tube). I use one nail knot right at the
end of the braid for trout and two nail knots for heavier fish.

If a loop system, on the end of a spey line, can turn over a 15' mono
leader and big fly, when cast into the wind, then the hinge theory is
truly BS. It does and it is.

Um, I'm not defending the "hinge theory," but assuming it has some
merit, it would be easier to present a larger (and heavier) fly...


Larger is not always heavier -- low water salmon hooks are quite light
for their size. A full dressed fly on them is quite wind resistant
without a lot of mass. Anyway, yesterday while practicing, I was
casting a "fluffy" (egg yarn on the end of the tippet) into a stiff
wind and it turned over OK.

Hmm, a corollary to rejecting the Hinge Theory then might be to reject the
philosophy of not jumping tippet weights too drastically, then. The Hinge
Theory (as I recently gathered) isn't saying that the two loops will cause a
hinge where they interact (that is BS, imho), but its saying that if you
don't seat your line deeply enough into the base of the loop, that few
centimeters of flimsy material will make a 360-degree hinge and screw up
your casts.

The philosophy of not skipping too many tippet weights is supposed to be for
the same reason. I learned that, when you tie on a tippet, to push the two
different sides together and make the tippet curl in a section including the
knot. If the weights are not too far apart, the two pieces will both curve
and you'll have a nice semicircle. If one is too thin, then it will 'hinge'
at the knot, and the result is that the tippet won't turn over correctly. Is
this also BS?

--riverman