I pulled an Al

Scott Seidman wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
Scott Seidman wrote:
snip
If there are any villians, its the customers that insist on paying
$600 for a $200 fly rod.

Who wouldn't want to pay $200 for a Sage 890-4 TCR, arguably the
best stick available for tossing big wind eaters to bucketmouths,
but they run $725 for the factory model and $363 for the blank.

If you know where to find a comparable cannon for less I'd sure
love to hear about it.

Well, I can't tell you what's comparable to that, but I can tell you that
I search for the right time and place to buy the right rod.

A Winston Boron XTR is comparable, $675 factory, $338 blank.

snip
I've seen the Sage discount program for guides, and a guide pays not much
more than $275 for much of Sage's top of the line is today (I don't know
about the TCR, though)--and Sage would still make money off the rod.

Right, I bought one of my Winstons when I guided and paid right at
20% of retail, back then that was ~$100 for a ~$500 rod, but there
was/is no warranty at all, if I break it, that's that. And then too,
in Montana you actually have to log hours on the stream and have it
verified by an outfitter to qualify for guide discounts. At my age
and my curmudgeonly temperament I'd just as soon pay the extra $$$
as to have to spend time on a stream with a *!#$%^* tourist. ;-)

snip
We can go back and forth about what makes a $600 rod worth $600. I think
a good part of that is the warrantee ...

So it's not particularly villainous to fish with a $600 rod, it's
only villainous if you pay retail for it ? ;-)

--
Ken Fortenberry

Ken Fortenberry wrote in
m:


So it's not particularly villainous to fish with a $600 rod, it's
only villainous if you pay retail for it ? ;-)


Exactly.

Other things come into play with fly rods, though. It's a much smaller
market, so prices probably need to be higher just to keep the small
companies in business.

I wonder, though, if sticking to rods from the big names, with bait casting
lines, would mean you'd pay less in general?

Scott

On Thu, 2 Dec 2004 11:18:59 -0600, "D. Norton"
wrote:

Whew Ken, for a minute the smoke was curling out my ears! But your right we
can't compete with large manufacturers as far as our costs. And I for one
don't want to.

wow....... I read on and on.... the thread went on and on.... my
pizza got cold... but anyway... when I broke a St Croix in the back
of my pickup I took it to a local tackle shop and had it repaired.
When my Abu 5501 didn't work when I picked it up in the spring (it was
fine when I put it away in the fall), I sent it to Abu for repair.
They sent me a new reel. I sent it away with expectations of a bill,
I sent my credit card number.... but even though it was out of
warrantee they replaced it. I didn't ask why. I bought 2 more since
then and I am sure that is why they are so customer friendly.
Richard g
www.bassstalkers.com

I pulled an Al
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
It's too bad that all "recreational" type product manufactures don't
take you business approach Bob!
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Group: rec.outdoors.fishing.bass Date: Fri, Dec 3, 2004, 2:26am (CST+6)
From: (Bob=A0Rickard)
What's good for any business is to price your goods as low as practical
so as to maximize sales for maximum bottom line profits. For example,
Secret Weapon is not just competing against other lure manufacturers for
sales dollars; we are also competing against bread, gasoline, medicines
and everything else to which consumers must allocate their hard-earned
dollars. Every unnecessary penney added to an item's selling price
serves to further limit the market for that product, and fair &
reasonable warranty policies directly benefit the manufacturer as well
as the consumer in that regard.
--
Bob Rickard
(AKA Dr. Spinnerbait)
www.secretweaponlures.com
--------------------------=3Dx=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0O')))
"Ken Fortenberry" wrote in
message m...
Bob Rickard wrote:
Bob LaLonde is a man of total integrity and was absolutely right in the
way he handled his returns. He knew that he had paid at the time of
purchase for full entitlement to the manufacturer's return policies,
whatever they may be, and he would have been a fool not to have taken
full advantage of them.
Agreed 110%. You are absolutely right.
Those manufacturers who build the "abuse insurance" into the original
purchase price are the villains here and should be treated as such. They
are taking the cheap and sleazy way out to protect their own butts and
to try to look like heroes in the process. The buying public should
never be tricked into paying for other's mistakes, and true
manufacturing defects should never cost the buyer a penny to correct.
Here's where we part company.
Why would a rod company set themselves up to be judge, jury and final
authority over rod breakage knowing full well that some will cheat and
some will feel cheated ? Better just to replace them all and incorporate
it into the cost of the rod. Remember, we're not talking about what's
fair, we're talking about what's good for their business.
--
Ken Fortenberry

You guided Ken? Details please...

--
Warren

http://www.warrenwolk.com
Http://www.tri-statebassmasters.com
2004 NJ B.A.S.S. Federation State Champions

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message
m...
Scott Seidman wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
Scott Seidman wrote:
snip If there are any villians, its the customers that insist on
paying
$600 for a $200 fly rod.

Who wouldn't want to pay $200 for a Sage 890-4 TCR, arguably the
best stick available for tossing big wind eaters to bucketmouths,
but they run $725 for the factory model and $363 for the blank.

If you know where to find a comparable cannon for less I'd sure
love to hear about it.

Well, I can't tell you what's comparable to that, but I can tell you that
I search for the right time and place to buy the right rod.

A Winston Boron XTR is comparable, $675 factory, $338 blank.

snip
I've seen the Sage discount program for guides, and a guide pays not much
more than $275 for much of Sage's top of the line is today (I don't know
about the TCR, though)--and Sage would still make money off the rod.

Right, I bought one of my Winstons when I guided and paid right at
20% of retail, back then that was ~$100 for a ~$500 rod, but there
was/is no warranty at all, if I break it, that's that. And then too,
in Montana you actually have to log hours on the stream and have it
verified by an outfitter to qualify for guide discounts. At my age
and my curmudgeonly temperament I'd just as soon pay the extra $$$
as to have to spend time on a stream with a *!#$%^* tourist. ;-)

snip We can go back and forth about what makes a $600 rod worth $600.
I think a good part of that is the warrantee ...

So it's not particularly villainous to fish with a $600 rod, it's
only villainous if you pay retail for it ? ;-)

--
Ken Fortenberry

go-bassn wrote:
You guided Ken? Details please...

No bass fishing, I guided canoe trips in the BWCA during
the summers when I was in college and trout fishing trips
out west during my mid-life crisis. ;-)

Gunflint Trail, Minnesota, 1974-1976, BWCA guide.

Cooke City, Montana, 2000-2002, fly fishing in the Absoraka
Beartooth Wilderness.

--
Ken Fortenberry

My personal mid-life crisis started when I was eleven years old, and hasn't
finished yet.

--
Bob Rickard
(AKA Dr. Spinnerbait)
www.secretweaponlures.com
--------------------------=x O')))


"Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message
om...
go-bassn wrote:
You guided Ken? Details please...

No bass fishing, I guided canoe trips in the BWCA during
the summers when I was in college and trout fishing trips
out west during my mid-life crisis. ;-)

Gunflint Trail, Minnesota, 1974-1976, BWCA guide.

Cooke City, Montana, 2000-2002, fly fishing in the Absoraka
Beartooth Wilderness.

--
Ken Fortenberry

"D. Norton" wrote in message
...
That's the only way we can do business Steve. We don't build thousands of
rods each year, and therefore can't afford a "no fault" clause. However I
am sure that you like myself will err on the side of a client when there
is doubt as to the cause.

This is true. I wish I could afford to do a "No-Fault" warranty, but with
the cost of components, it just isn't possible.

Luckily, I haven't been put into this situation too often, but I do feel
that customer service is a must.
--
Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers
http://www.outdoorfrontiers.com
G & S Guide Service and Custom Rods
http://www.herefishyfishy.com

"D. Norton" wrote in message
...
That's the only way we can do business Steve. We don't build thousands of
rods each year, and therefore can't afford a "no fault" clause. However I
am sure that you like myself will err on the side of a client when there
is doubt as to the cause.

This is true. I wish I could afford to do a "No-Fault" warranty, but with
the cost of components, it just isn't possible.

Luckily, I haven't been put into this situation too often, but I do feel
that customer service is a must.
--
Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers
http://www.outdoorfrontiers.com
G & S Guide Service and Custom Rods
http://www.herefishyfishy.com

Let me be on record that I feel that Bob L.did nothing wrong in returning his
rods with a truthful explanation. My rods were returned when fully covered by
warranty. The vast majority snapped when landing a fish in full view of the
lads. The most recent return resulted in a upgrade to tournament class rod
replacement. Apparently I had alerted the manufacturer to a flaw in overbaking
the blank for that given batch. The letter coming back was most salutory and
assured me that I was quite correct in returning it.. This is assuring since i
have no loss in face to the lads as I will most assuringly forward this info on
to them. Seasons Greetings and Merry Christmas as early as it is.
et Al