Symposium Report

Tom wrote:snip One sees the same "big name"
tyers, giving essentially the same presentations which they have presented
for
years. I don't want to pick on any one individual, but geez, can't we see
something novel anymore?

It is not all that easy to come up with something truly different. I like tying
the little foam spiders that I tie for bluegill, but there is nothing new
there. When I started tying in the late 1980's it was already common practice
to fold the foam over the back of the beetle and I am told that this is a
simple variation of Jack Gartside's Gurgler. I guess that could be true, but I
have often wondered who influenced Jack to use that technique or if he was the
first. In our part of the country, many years ago Doug Christian of the Saint
Louis area tied a fly he called the shoe fly that used a closed cell foam back
with a underbody of furry foam under twisted maribou, and round rubber legs..
Kyle Moppert of Baton Rouge learned to tie it from Doug. John Peterie learned
to tie it from Kyle, and started using the chrystal chenille for a body
material. I learned how to do the grizzly rubber legs from Eric Schmucker who
learned that technique from Al Troth. I tie the legs on the bug with a
technique that I developed myself without watching anyone else, but I am not so
naieve to believe that I am the first to do it that way. My latest version of
the fly is called "The Psychedelic Spider," and uses the multicolored foam that
Dave Mohnsen of Denver introduced us to with his Rainbow Beetle in a fly swap-
a year or so ago. I also use the chrystal chenille for the body material cause
the fish like it,and when I make the multi-colored legs I use at least three
different colored markers using the same "grizzly rubber leg technique" that I
learned from Eric. The inspiration for the fly came from comment that Day
Tripper made after seeing the rainbow beetle. Did I invent anything? No. It is
just a different combination of techniques. It is still a lot of fun. I have
never seen Doug tie the Shoe Fly and plan to have him show me how he ties it if
he is able to come to The Sowbug Roundup in a few months. I would like to get a
fly tied by each of these guys and see how far back I can get flies tied by all
those who influenced those with their techniques. I think it would make an
excellent display of the evolution of a fly. I just have not figured out how to
display all of them as I would prefer to preserve some brush or branches of
trees from the area each of these guys come from so that the bugs can look like
they were left in trees due to poor casting like I most often do. I tell guys
to decorate trees with the bugs when I give them away. For instance, Since Kyle
lives in Baton Rouge I suspect it should be a live oak branch that the fly
shares with some spanish moss. Since Dave is from thje Denver area, will I need
to collect some sage brush? I leave a lot of them in cat tails in East Texas.

I went to a conclave a couple of years ago the the keynote speaker and featured
tier used the same old tired and faded film he had used when I first say him
give that presentation in a fly shop in Ft Worth 15 years before. You would
think that since he had been making money off that presentation for so long he
could have at least shot new film.

I see more new creative thing things done with fur and feathers done by
teenagers than by crusty old farts like me. I have a lot of fun learning from a
dear friend's grandaughter who I have been tying with off and on since she was
6 years old and she is now 11 years old.

Have fun out there.

Big Dale

Dale notes:
I went to a conclave a couple of years ago the the keynote speaker and
featured
tier used the same old tired and faded film he had used when I first say him
give that presentation in a fly shop in Ft Worth 15 years before

that is exactly the sort of experience I was ranting about. I don't expect
anything miraculous, or even truly "new". I do think, that if the attendees are
shelling out 10 or 12 bucks each to show up, the featured tiers could rework
the presentations for which they are paid. The fact that they do not is
somewhat insulting.
Tom

"Ernie" wrote in message
om...

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message
.com...
Stan Gula wrote:
With all due respect for your, and others' political opinions, could
we
please try to keep ROFFT from becoming another heap of political
posts?

Yeah, everybody knows that fly fishermen, (excepting Big Dale, of
course)
discuss politics over in roff. ;-)
Ken Fortenberry

I wonder if there is any chance of getting another ROFF news group for
discussion of off topic items?
Ernie


Call the group rec.off.topic....ROT for short...

Mark



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And instead of being called ROFFians, everyone would just be ROTten...



"Mark W. Oots" mark_ctc@(delete this)ameritech.net wrote in message
.com...



Call the group rec.off.topic....ROT for short...

Mark

Tom wrote:that is exactly the sort of experience I was ranting about. I don't
expect
anything miraculous, or even truly "new". I do think, that if the attendees
are
shelling out 10 or 12 bucks each to show up, the featured tiers could rework
the presentations for which they are paid. The fact that they do not is
somewhat insulting.
Tom

The sad part is that after being treated that way by that guy, the next year
they booked him and his son to be the keynote speakers at the next year's
conclave. How does that teach him that he has done anything wrong? The screwups
that make those kind of decisions won't listen to people that make sense.

Thanks for an excuse to make a serious rant.

Big Dale

On 28 Nov 2003 22:53:41 GMT, (Tom Littleton) wrote:

Dale notes:
I went to a conclave a couple of years ago the the keynote speaker and
featured
tier used the same old tired and faded film he had used when I first say him
give that presentation in a fly shop in Ft Worth 15 years before

that is exactly the sort of experience I was ranting about. I don't expect
anything miraculous, or even truly "new". I do think, that if the attendees are
shelling out 10 or 12 bucks each to show up, the featured tiers could rework
the presentations for which they are paid. The fact that they do not is
somewhat insulting.
Tom

I would imagine they'll continue booking these guys until no one wants
to see their dog-&-pony show anymore. If yours are like ours, every
year the hall has a large compliment of newbies who will be duly
impressed by 15 year old film and a hackneyed presentation. That's
the bitch of it.



Peter

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RE "I don't want to pick on any one individual, but geez, can't we see
something novel anymore?"

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Sandy,
Great examples...now, if someone could just book you for the Fly Tyer's
circuit, and perhaps a couple more of your creativity, we might just have
something.
Happy Holidays,
Tom

"Tom Littleton" wrote in message
...
Dale notes:
I went to a conclave a couple of years ago the the keynote speaker and
featured
tier used the same old tired and faded film he had used when I first say
him
give that presentation in a fly shop in Ft Worth 15 years before

that is exactly the sort of experience I was ranting about. I don't expect
anything miraculous, or even truly "new".
Indian Joe offers--not much different from fly fishing clinics where Joe
Humphery shows film he made 10 years ago and Jim Casonva (?) talks about
fishing streams he has not seen in 10 years.