OT To brine or not to brine ...

On Nov 13, 12:00*am, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:
I go back and forth on this one. On the one hand brining the
turkey does make the breast meat more juicy and tender but
on the other hand it waters down the taste. Harold McGee has
one of his occasional columns in the Dining section of today's
Times; *http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/12/dining/12curi.html
and he's a no-briner.

My latest method of attack on the holiday bird is flipping.
That's right, I flip the bird. ;-) I start it breast side
down in a 300 F oven for 30-45 minutes depending on size,
flip it one wing up and then the other wing up for about
20 minutes apiece, then increase the heat to 450 F flip it
breast side up and cook til done. The 450 degree oven browns
the bird nicely. Like McGee, I don't listen to that 160 F
nonsense. When the deepest part of the breast gets to 145
on the old thermal meter, that bird is done.

I've tried several different ways since we started getting
the free range, never frozen birds about 10 years ago, brine,
no brine, high heat fast, low heat slow, but flipping the
bird is the method I've finally settled on. I don't know how
it would work on the typical frozen Butterball but it works
out well on the birds we get.

--
Ken Fortenberry

Lots of hoidy toidy these days about the 'best' way to cook a turkey.

On the simple side, I stuff it, truss it, cover it with foil (removed
for the last hour or so), place it in a pan on top of a bed of half-
potatoes and carrots with a half cup of water, and roast it untouched
and uninspected for the appropriate amount of time (170C for 40
minutes per kilogram, plus another 20 minutes. For you metrophobes,
that's about 330F for 18 minutes per pound, plus 20 minutes). I refuse
to fuss over the bird, other than basting it in its drippings ever so
often.

My turkeys always come out stupendous....the rave of the family
gatherings, and I am convinced that its because everyone else is
constantly poking and prodding, twisting and turning, ya-de-dah-ing
and their birds end up cooling, heating, shrinking, swelling, etc etc
until they are dry and hard as a callous.

On the most complex side (and this bird was SO damn delicious that
people STILL talk about it 12 years later!!!), I once totally spaced
out how long it would take a frozen 25 pound turkey to thaw. I took it
out of the deep freeze on my way to school, and in a moment of fear
about it sitting warm all day (fat chance for THAT block of ice), I
put it in the fridge to thaw. When I got home at 3 (dinner was for 8
that night), it was still rock solid.

I panicked, and sat it in a sink of warm water, constantly refreshing
it with hot water as the water cooled. After about a half hour, it was
still completely frozen, and I was getting really spooked. So I put it
in the microwave for another 20 minutes (on 'defrost') and it started
getting pliable, but by then there was not enough time to roast it...I
needed about 7 1/2 hours...so I decided to split the difference. I
found an online recipe that said it could be microwaved in 2 hours, so
I decided to cook it 2/3 of the way in the nuke, then roast it the
rest of the way. I did a quick mathematical regression and figured out
I could microwave it for about 1.5 hours, then roast it for another
hour, and it might be okay. As it was, my estimations were off and it
wasn't quite done by party time.

I got to the dinner party at the tail end of 'on time', and the other
turkeys were already carved up and set out, so I used the opportunity
to pop mine back in the oven for another half hour. By the time I got
it back out and on the table, everyone was ready for dessert and
pretty stuffed, but just to be polite, the host took a slice of breast
meat. "Oh my GOD!!" she declared..."THIS turkey is ABSOLUTELY
FANTASTIC!!". People came over, took a small serving, then bedlam
followed as everyone started devouring this succulent, juicy,
extremely delicious bird. Afterwards, all the conversation was about
"WHAT is your secret recipe?? That was the most delicious turkey EVER!
I thought I was too full to eat, but WOW was that GREAT!"

I guess the process of a slow thaw immersed in water, a slow thaw in
the microwave, then nuking it to get the baseline cooked, and then
roasting it to seal in the juices, cooling it on the drive to the
party, then roasting it again to 'top it off' was just right.

Needless to say, that one was never replicated. Now its stuff it,
truss it, cover it with foil, and pop it in the oven with PLENTY of
time for it to cook.

--riverman

riverman wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
I go back and forth on this one. ...

Lots of hoidy toidy these days about the 'best' way to cook a turkey.

On the simple side, I stuff it, truss it, cover it with foil (removed
for the last hour or so), place it in a pan on top of a bed of half-
potatoes and carrots with a half cup of water, and roast it untouched
and uninspected for the appropriate amount of time (170C for 40
minutes per kilogram, plus another 20 minutes. For you metrophobes,
that's about 330F for 18 minutes per pound, plus 20 minutes). I refuse
to fuss over the bird, other than basting it in its drippings ever so
often. ...

Low and slow, yeah I've tried that but it must work better with
previously frozen birds than with fresh because when I tried it
that way I had lots of tough turkey. And I never stuff a turkey,
talk about your salmonella stew, I bake the dressing separately.

I like making a fuss over the bird. I only cook one turkey a year
so it's an occasion and I treat it accordingly.

--
Ken Fortenberry

Brine's okay, I guess, but I prefer my turkey fried. Seals in the
flavor, and keeps the meat really moist.

Charlie S. wrote:
Brine's okay, I guess, but I prefer my turkey fried. Seals in the
flavor, and keeps the meat really moist.

That was really popular for awhile but it became less so after
a few garages and houses burned down. Nothing like a pile of ash
where your house used to be to put something of a damper on
Thanksgiving. ;-) And don't you have to buy expensive peanut oil
by the barrel to fry a turkey ? What do you do with the used oil ?

--
Ken Fortenberry

I am in Myron's camp here. I thaw the bird, stuff it, rub oil on it,
stick in a meat thermometer, cover it foil, and let it roast at 325 F.
I ignore the bird for the next 6 hours or so, and only take off the foil
for the last 30 minutes. Comes out excellent every time, nice and moist,
no fuss. I shun any product with the words "free-range", "organic", or
"all natural" in the title.

I cook Turkeys about three times a year, Thanksgiving, which was a month
ago, Christmas, and Easter. My daughter likes to help me with the
process. After it is done, I spend my time with the wife and kids.

Tim Lysyk

Ken Fortenberry wrote:
Charlie S. wrote:
Brine's okay, I guess, but I prefer my turkey fried. Seals in the
flavor, and keeps the meat really moist.

That was really popular for awhile but it became less so after
a few garages and houses burned down. Nothing like a pile of ash
where your house used to be to put something of a damper on
Thanksgiving. ;-)

The message is simple - Don't cook with a blood alcohol 0.08%.

And don't you have to buy expensive peanut oil
by the barrel to fry a turkey ? What do you do with the used oil ?


Give it to someone with a diesel engine.

On Nov 13, 10:35*pm, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:


Low and slow, yeah I've tried that but it must work better with
previously frozen birds than with fresh because when I tried it
that way I had lots of tough turkey.

A family friend from South Africa wrote a cookbook, and she turned me
on to the cooking time of 170C for 40 minutes per kilogram, plus
another 20 minutes, and I follow that like scripture. It always works
out...I think a lot of folks get leather turkeys because they don't
trust that its done, give it another 20 minutes, then it steams dry
fairly quickly. My 'secondary test' is to poke it near the hip and
ensure that the juices run clear: the moment they are like water, out
it comes. But so far, the timings of both tests match like clockwork.

And I never stuff a turkey,
talk about your salmonella stew, I bake the dressing separately.


Never had a problem with that, but the secret is to stuff it *loosely*
so that it can swell, and so that the heat permeates. Also, I avoid
putting anything in the stuffing that can be bad...no eggs or
anything. I like to experiment with the stuffings, but usually its a
blend of fruit (apples, pears, raisins soaked in brandy, grapes),
diced bread, a handful of oats, a splash of milk, and the spices from
'Scarborough Fair'.

I like making a fuss over the bird. I only cook one turkey a year
so it's an occasion and I treat it accordingly.


I make believe that I'm making a big fuss, spending a lot of time
turning the oven light off and on, and clanking dishes around. :-)

--riverman

Tim Lysyk wrote:
I am in Myron's camp here. I thaw the bird, stuff it, rub oil on it,
stick in a meat thermometer, cover it foil, and let it roast at 325 F. I
ignore the bird for the next 6 hours or so, and only take off the foil
for the last 30 minutes. Comes out excellent every time, nice and moist,
no fuss. I shun any product with the words "free-range", "organic", or
"all natural" in the title.

I cook Turkeys about three times a year, Thanksgiving, which was a month
ago, Christmas, and Easter. My daughter likes to help me with the
process. After it is done, I spend my time with the wife and kids.

I've always thought Canadians have the better date for Thanksgiving.
The second Monday in October would be just a tad early for the
Harvest Feast down here in the lower 48 but it's perfect for you
guys. Our Thanksgiving is way too late and, what's worse, *way* too
close to Christmas. The only good thing about the fourth Thursday
in November is that it's a week after the third Thursday in November
(Beaujolais Nouveau Day). I think the best day for a US Harvest Feast/
Thanksgiving would be the fourth Thursday of October. I'd just
have to find another wine to drink with dinner. ;-)

--
Ken Fortenberry

"riverman" wrote in message
...
On Nov 13, 10:35 pm, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:


Low and slow, yeah I've tried that but it must work better with
previously frozen birds than with fresh because when I tried it
that way I had lots of tough turkey.

A family friend from South Africa wrote a cookbook, and she turned me
on to the cooking time of 170C for 40 minutes per kilogram, plus
another 20 minutes, and I follow that like scripture. It always works
out...I think a lot of folks get leather turkeys because they don't
trust that its done, give it another 20 minutes, then it steams dry
fairly quickly. My 'secondary test' is to poke it near the hip and
ensure that the juices run clear: the moment they are like water, out
it comes. But so far, the timings of both tests match like clockwork.

And I never stuff a turkey,
talk about your salmonella stew, I bake the dressing separately.


Never had a problem with that, but the secret is to stuff it *loosely*
so that it can swell, and so that the heat permeates. Also, I avoid
putting anything in the stuffing that can be bad...no eggs or
anything. I like to experiment with the stuffings, but usually its a
blend of fruit (apples, pears, raisins soaked in brandy, grapes),
diced bread, a handful of oats, a splash of milk, and the spices from
'Scarborough Fair'.

I like making a fuss over the bird. I only cook one turkey a year
so it's an occasion and I treat it accordingly.


I make believe that I'm making a big fuss, spending a lot of time
turning the oven light off and on, and clanking dishes around. :-)

--riverman

Problem with stuffing turkey most times, is makes the bird heavy and you
have to overcook the meaty outside to get the stuffing cooked. I do not
stuff, start the bird at 450 to brown the breast, cover the breast and lower
cooking temp to 350. Probe the breast for 140 after about 2 hours and when
gets there, is done.

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message
...
Charlie S. wrote:
Brine's okay, I guess, but I prefer my turkey fried. Seals in the
flavor, and keeps the meat really moist.

That was really popular for awhile but it became less so after
a few garages and houses burned down. Nothing like a pile of ash
where your house used to be to put something of a damper on
Thanksgiving. ;-) And don't you have to buy expensive peanut oil
by the barrel to fry a turkey ? What do you do with the used oil ?

--
Ken Fortenberry

Filter the oil and reuse it. I fry a couple turkeys a year, but only once
for Thanksgiving. We went camping in Big Sur with the kids, was their
choice and hard to bake a turkey at a campground. But frying does not give
any drippings for gravy.