Off season tying ... snow bunny foot properties

I admit to preferring to fish in places known to be 'technical' ....
and I further admit to a personal tendency to over complicate even
those places. This leads to me catching far fewer fish than I know,
from experience, I "could" elsewhere, but the pleasure I receive from
each success is greater, and it suits me. I know many of you
probably find this silly, but, heh, it doesn't harm anyone else, so
I'll just continue G.

However, a part of this affection for technical angling that I don't
like is the difficulty it adds to off season tying. The fun part of
tying, to me, is the subtle parts. I get a great kick out of making
slight variations and then trying to test them for relative
effectiveness. Sadly, I find this nearly impossible ... off
season ... because I lack real 'models' for my tying and because such
tests can't be completed with the creation process fresh in mind.

An example: I just this morning ran across a couple untouched Snow
Shoe Hare's Feet in my stash of stuff. Looking at it brings emerger
wings, and a couple other potential uses to mind. A brief search
( I have a crappy connection and simply don't wait for most pages to
load ) yielded only "could be anything" style attractor flies using
the material ... not my style. Tying up a series of patterns
without the ability to test the first few for 'float' and apparent
appeal to my targeted fish is a waste of time. I've been there done
that in the past and it just leads to fly boxes crammed with **** I'll
never really fish.

My real QUESTIONS?? When I think of 'bunny' I think of water logged
wet flies. Does this 'Snow Bunny" hair float or sink given it's
own, non- chemically altered choice. Are there tricks for tying
it that make flies more durable, it looks like the hair might have a
strong tendency to pull loose. Compared to the CDC I use often in
the type of fly I'm considering is this bunny hair going to contribute
to "internal motion" in the fly, a key feature, imho, or be more 'hard
and un-moving"

My first impulse was to mail the feet to a friend with a limited
budget and different tastes than myself in fishin' holes. I refuse
to tie much that I can't really test soon, but I'd like your comments
of this material, your uses of it, it's strong points and weak points
etc. Should I keep this stuff to try next season? As always your
opinion on fishing matters is appreciated, if not shared G


Larry ( in the midst of cleaning out the kit )

Larry L wrote:
An example: I just this morning ran across a couple untouched Snow
Shoe Hare's Feet in my stash of stuff.
snip
My real QUESTIONS?? When I think of 'bunny' I think of water logged
wet flies. Does this 'Snow Bunny" hair float or sink given it's
own, non- chemically altered choice.

The snowshoe hare's foot guard hairs float very well and capture
little air bubbles to boot. Great wing material, if you tie in wings.
(I performed my own experiments several years ago and have convinced
myself that wings are unnecessary. YMMV)

Are there tricks for tying
it that make flies more durable, it looks like the hair might have a
strong tendency to pull loose.

Tom Littleton to the white courtesy phone, please.

--
Ken Fortenberry

"Larry L" wrote in message
...
When I think of 'bunny' I think of water logged
wet flies. Does this 'Snow Bunny" hair float or sink given it's
own, non- chemically altered choice.

the foot pad hair is hollow, and thus, floats.

Are there tricks for tying
it that make flies more durable, it looks like the hair might have a
strong tendency to pull loose. Compared to the CDC I use often in
the type of fly I'm considering is this bunny hair going to contribute
to "internal motion" in the fly, a key feature, imho, or be more 'hard
and un-moving"

The key thing to remember is that you don't have to have a huge, puffy mass
of the stuff for a floating wing. Keep it sparse, at first especially, and
work with it. You'll get a feel for keeping it in place. Additionally,
clipping and blending hair off the feet yields a sort of coarse dubbing
texture that can be pulled off and used in small flies. Try tying a small
clump 'x' style like a spinner wing, and then clumping upright. This works
well on sizes 16 and down.
The stuff has a ton of movement in it. I find it a much more durable
replacement for CDC in most applications.


My first impulse was to mail the feet to a friend with a limited
budget and different tastes than myself in fishin' holes. I refuse
to tie much that I can't really test soon, but I'd like your comments
of this material, your uses of it, it's strong points and weak points
etc. Should I keep this stuff to try next season? As always your
opinion on fishing matters is appreciated, if not shared

well, you could send them to me. I already have about 70 feet in the stash,
but they'll get usedg. A couple of suggestions for usage, and I would urge
you NOT to put it off:
1. Snowshoe Dun-- tail, split fibers
body:dubbed, if you wish to be anal with detail, make
the abdomen out of a wrapped biot or quill
wing: upright, fanned clump of SS foot, think compara
dun style.
dubbing to eye of hook and you are done. Tie these to match whatever
mayflies you fish for, and get back to me.

2. Snowshoe caddis emerger--tail/shuck: sparkle yarn
body: dubbed squirrel, with a bit of antron mixed in.
wing: snowshoe foot--tie facing forward, and pull back
over body. Clip to length.
head: coarse squirrel, darker than body,

Now, for those, as you might be, who dislike flies that don't look 'neat'
and precise, these two designs might not be your cup of tea. However, if
enticing VERY wary trout to take your flies as though they were naturals,
appeals to you, then by all means try these out.

Tom

Wow, two fast and very useful replies .... this UseNet thing might
have potential G

Tom wrote
Now, for those, as you might be, who dislike flies that don't look 'neat'
and precise, these two designs might not be your cup of tea.

I am very much of the shaggy is usually better school. Your
comment brought a fun morning from last August to mind, I share it as
a kind of belated TR G

In the area between what's called the Islands and the area called
Bonefish Flat on my beloved HFork I was working a sparse morning that
included callibaetis, midges, and some PMD spinners.

I fished a very shaggy fly that I have dubbed a Trusty Musky ... think
Muskrat and Partridge soft hackle fished IN the film. It, imho,
does a very good job for both midges and callibaetis, but for very
different reasons.

I caught a fair number of fish including the only large one taken that
morning in this popular section. One of the other anglers was Bob,
who, literally, fishes the Ranch virtually every day of the season and
has for many years .... he is a FAR better "ranch hand" than I am,
most days. When we passed as he worked down and me up, he
commented on how I was beating him and the others this particular
morning, and asked what pattern the big fish had eaten.

I told him ( I know him well and he is an excellent and very 'neat'
tier) that I'd show him, but, that he should brace himself first
G I handed him the end of the tippet and his look was priceless,
and mainly he just stammered, "What the hell is that supposed to
be?"

Hi Larry,

This is exactly the subject I like! I've been tying with snow feet a long
time and consider these flies far mor superior than " just" CDC. I't much
more durable and the patterns have a rough and messy appearance I like in
all my dries.
I will sent a document with the patterns (unfortunately the website they
were on is lost) to your G-mailadres. Another pattern I had great succes
with in your given circumstances is this:
Hook: TMC 107 #'s 15 & 17
no tail
body: one CDC feather tie in (by the tip) at the point og the hookbend,
then slightly twisted and woundf forwards (exacly like in the CDC and Elk).
Don't cut the extending fibers!
Wing: Snowshoe feet's hair tied flat like in a caddispattern.
That's all, so I don't have to be sorry when I loose one or two in the
branches.
Floats good. It's a great caddis pattern!

Greetings
Hans van der Stroom
"Larry L" schreef in bericht
...
I admit to preferring to fish in places known to be 'technical' ....
and I further admit to a personal tendency to over complicate even
those places. This leads to me catching far fewer fish than I know,
from experience, I "could" elsewhere, but the pleasure I receive from
each success is greater, and it suits me. I know many of you
probably find this silly, but, heh, it doesn't harm anyone else, so
I'll just continue G.

However, a part of this affection for technical angling that I don't
like is the difficulty it adds to off season tying. The fun part of
tying, to me, is the subtle parts. I get a great kick out of making
slight variations and then trying to test them for relative
effectiveness. Sadly, I find this nearly impossible ... off
season ... because I lack real 'models' for my tying and because such
tests can't be completed with the creation process fresh in mind.

An example: I just this morning ran across a couple untouched Snow
Shoe Hare's Feet in my stash of stuff. Looking at it brings emerger
wings, and a couple other potential uses to mind. A brief search
( I have a crappy connection and simply don't wait for most pages to
load ) yielded only "could be anything" style attractor flies using
the material ... not my style. Tying up a series of patterns
without the ability to test the first few for 'float' and apparent
appeal to my targeted fish is a waste of time. I've been there done
that in the past and it just leads to fly boxes crammed with **** I'll
never really fish.

My real QUESTIONS?? When I think of 'bunny' I think of water logged
wet flies. Does this 'Snow Bunny" hair float or sink given it's
own, non- chemically altered choice. Are there tricks for tying
it that make flies more durable, it looks like the hair might have a
strong tendency to pull loose. Compared to the CDC I use often in
the type of fly I'm considering is this bunny hair going to contribute
to "internal motion" in the fly, a key feature, imho, or be more 'hard
and un-moving"

My first impulse was to mail the feet to a friend with a limited
budget and different tastes than myself in fishin' holes. I refuse
to tie much that I can't really test soon, but I'd like your comments
of this material, your uses of it, it's strong points and weak points
etc. Should I keep this stuff to try next season? As always your
opinion on fishing matters is appreciated, if not shared G


Larry ( in the midst of cleaning out the kit )

I second Tom's comment on snowshoe as a replacement for CDC. I've got
a bunch of CDC in my tying area that has sat unused for over 5
years.
Secondarily, I now use it for almost all of my winging material. If a
fly requires a wing and it needs to float, I just use CDC in one of
two variations. I either put it in as an up wing or lay it flat
across the hook for a variation (rarely use this) of a caddis wing.
I've got at least 20 different colors of bunny in my tying bag. For a
traveling kit, I haul about 6 with me and very little hackle.
Frank Reid

On Jan 29, 4:58*am, "Hans van der Stroom"
wrote:
:
Hook: TMC 107 #'s 15 & 17
no tail
body: one CDC feather tie in (by the tip) at the point og the hookbend,
then slightly twisted and woundf forwards (exacly like in the CDC and Elk).
Don't cut the extending fibers!
Wing: Snowshoe feet's hair tied flat like in a caddispattern.
That's all, so I don't have to be sorry when I loose one or two in the
branches.
Floats good. It's a great caddis pattern!

Greetings
Hans van der Stroom
e G.




I got the file, Gmail had marked it as spam so glad you gave me the
heads up here

It IS a bit of a puzzle since I don't read Dutch G but I think
I've figured out the patterns such as

6. Snowshoe Caddis

Haak Standaard haak voor droge vliegen in de maten 10 – 18
Staartje Kort bosje SRF-fibers
Lijfje Dubbingmix van squirrel & deerhair
Vleugel Steeds een toefje SRF – ingebonden over het lijfje, gevolgd
door wat dubbing
Voelsprietjes Twee Peccary haren




Thanks Hans

I'll tie up some of these suggestions, for sure

On Jan 29, 6:30*am, Frank Reid © 2008 wrote:

I've got at least 20 different colors of bunny in my tying bag. *For a
traveling kit, I haul about 6 with me and very little hackle.
Frank Reid

Damn you Reid ... I didn't even know it came dyed. I'm trying to cut
back my kit, but now I'm itching to see what colors are available

On Jan 28, 11:36*am, "Tom Littleton" wrote:

texture that can be pulled off and used in small flies. Try tying a small
clump 'x' style like a spinner wing, and then clumping upright. This works
well on sizes 16 and down.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *Tom


Except for a few early season insects, a 16 is about as big as I
normally fish. I think this may be why I bought the feet but
never did much with them. One was missing a small area or hair but I
don't have a memory of tying flies with it. The hair seems too
long for most wings I tie ( or way too difficult to work with at the
very tips )

I tried ( I think I read it right ) the blend and clump method on an
18 last night and ending up trimming back the fibers to a small enough
length. It seems this trimming works better than with many
materials and doesn't yield a product that looks un-natural. If
the fibers owe their float to hollowness, does cutting them reduce it?

As ( on the foot I've started on ) you work out from the skin under
the foot you have a dark gray area, then a lighter nearly white,
nicely transparent in places zone, and finally a crinkley section I'll
call stained looking in color. Does this entire fiber, three
distinct colors, have the same floating qualities?

That dark gray area nearest the skin brings some uses to mind, but it
also brings 'underfur' to mind and thus, sink like a rock.

I'm going to try tying a cripple ala Quigley with the stuff later.
Positioned so the dark section ends up representing the wing case and
the lighter the unfolding wing, it should look great ( at least in my
mind's eye ) and the stuff is lighter than deerhair and just might
produce better physical traits in the fly, too !! ( not that I
honestly believe M-any fish will notice the difference ... but
chucking out something I like does increase confidence and any angler
with much experience knows confidence is essential )


Oh, Tom, do YOU find the various colors useful?

"Larry L" wrote in message
...
I tried ( I think I read it right ) the blend and clump method on an
18 last night and ending up trimming back the fibers to a small enough
length. It seems this trimming works better than with many
materials and doesn't yield a product that looks un-natural. If
the fibers owe their float to hollowness, does cutting them reduce it?

it sounds like you did just fine. I have seen little loss in floating
properties. I think the reason is this: the hair, if you look at it closely,
has a lot of curl. A bunch of it produces curls that create a ton of air
pockets, going every which way. Clipping it might expose the tips to taking
on water, but the trapped air keeps those tips well out of the water contact
required to sink them.




As ( on the foot I've started on ) you work out from the skin under
the foot you have a dark gray area, then a lighter nearly white,
nicely transparent in places zone, and finally a crinkley section I'll
call stained looking in color. Does this entire fiber, three
distinct colors, have the same floating qualities?

not exactly. The crinkly stuff floats the best. However, when you do the
blending thing, getting some of the softer parts(avoid the underfur right
close to the skin) doesn't seem to have an adverse effect, and sort of makes
the whole clump a little easier to control and shape. Experiment, as you
seem to have struck a few nice possibilities, and you may well discover lots
of stuff I haven't. And, therein lies the fun of tying for yourself!

Oh, Tom, do YOU find the various colors useful?

who do you think led Reid to his suppliers? Personally, I tend to use
certain shades heavily, others far more sparsely. Without doing an exact
count, I suspect my basement stash consists of:
10 natural pairs
20 dark dun
20 medium dun/brown
5 pale dun
with a few each of sulfur yellow, tan, chartreuse, olive
and rusty brown. My signature fly, if I have one, uses the darker dun for a
wing, and thus, I am about to grab another 20 pairs for the coming season's
needs.
Tom