Carp on the Fly

"Greg Pavlov" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 30 Apr 2004 09:37:21 +0200, Herman Nijland
wrote:


I know that this shouldn't have anything to do with
it, but having read that carp may live 50 or more
years, it bothers me more to see a large, old one
played out.

A twelve pound carp is by no means an old fish. According to
fishbase.org the maximum published weight is 37.3 kg, about 75 pounds.


By "large," Herman, I was thinking of carp at least 30 lbs in weight.
We have a fair number of them in the Niagara River and I caught one
once by accident.

Speaking of carp, I was fishing on the Niagara one day when a
large musky swam by slowly, about 12 feet from shore in 4 - 5
feet of water, trailed by 5 carp in single file, all at over
15 lbs. They passed by me heading upstream and about 10 minutes
later they all came by, still in single file, heading downstream.
Anyone have any idea what that was about ?

When muskies feed, do they thrash through a school of baitfish like a
bluefish does, leaving a cloud of leftovers? If so, maybe the carp were
scavenging. Or, are they plant eaters?

wrote in message ...
Okay....I didn't realize that this was going to be such a controversial
subject. I might have stretched the "playing" time a bit....it was more
like 10-15 minutes....next time I'll keep that in mind when I hook into
one.........Mike

Isn't the current theory for all fish that you should get the process over
with ASAP and release the fish? Why would carp be any different, other than
the fact that people who fish for them see them as having a useful purpose,
i.e.: a big fight. We're not talking about sharks. Carp's physiology is no
different from that of a trout or a bass.

"Greg Pavlov" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 30 Apr 2004 09:37:21 +0200, Herman Nijland
wrote:
Speaking of carp, I was fishing on the Niagara one day when a
large musky swam by slowly, about 12 feet from shore in 4 - 5
feet of water, trailed by 5 carp in single file, all at over
15 lbs. They passed by me heading upstream and about 10 minutes
later they all came by, still in single file, heading downstream.
Anyone have any idea what that was about ?

Trolling, I presume.

--riverman

I peronally make sure all fish are revived before I walk away....I use
barbless hooks . Most of the fish I catch I release. Mike

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"Steve Sullivan" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Doug Kanter" wrote:

I don't fish for them, so I can't speak from experience. But, I see
quite a
few carp laying around fishing spots, dead, so apparently some of the
afficionados think they're not a worthwhile life form. Makes me want
to
hook
the afficionados to my trailer hitch and see if they enjoy similar
treatment.


Yet you think hooking them in the mouth with a sharp hook is good for
them?? Personally, I think fish are too primitive for us to care. If a
fish had the brain of say a dog, I WOULDNT FISH FOR THEM!! Just like I
wouldnt go to a park, put a dog bone through a size 6/0 hook, and catch
myself some cute cockerspaniels!

1) Do you release some of the fish you catch? If so, do you do anything in
particular to assure that they swim away, rather than end up floating dead
on the surface?

2) I know two fishermen who have stated clearly that carp aren't worth
saving. Do you suppose there might be others who think this way?

3) I've never been awakened at 3:00 AM by a barking fish. What would be
the
best angle at which to put a hook through a bone, in order to reeducate a
dog?

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
wrote in message ...
Okay....I didn't realize that this was going to be such a controversial
subject. I might have stretched the "playing" time a bit....it was more
like 10-15 minutes....next time I'll keep that in mind when I hook into
one.........Mike

Isn't the current theory for all fish that you should get the process over
with ASAP and release the fish? Why would carp be any different, other
than
the fact that people who fish for them see them as having a useful
purpose,
i.e.: a big fight. We're not talking about sharks. Carp's physiology is no
different from that of a trout or a bass.



I actually was serious when asking for the OES on this. My personal take is
that all fish are in their niche, and if I catch one, any one, I should
return it and let it get back to what it does. However, I find it incredibly
hard to return a pike that I find hanging out in the tailrace of a rapid,
waiting for some trout to get washed down. Likewise, having grown up with
hook and worm, barefoot and muddy, hoping once too often to hook a trout and
having hauled in a carp or a sucker, I also find it tempting to make
fertilizer out of them. But not really knowing as much about ecosystems as I
should, I always toss them back (carp, suckers and pike), hoping that I'm
erring on the right side.

Then again, that's precisely the mentality that got those Frankenfish
started, which are making a comeback, btw.

--riverman

"Greg Pavlov" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 30 Apr 2004 13:50:35 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


When muskies feed, do they thrash through a school of baitfish like a
bluefish does, leaving a cloud of leftovers? If so, maybe the carp were
scavenging. Or, are they plant eaters?


Muskies may do that, but they're known for
going after larger fish one at a time,
swallowing them head-first.



Electrolux feeding is what that's called, I think.

"riverman" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
wrote in message
...
Okay....I didn't realize that this was going to be such a
controversial
subject. I might have stretched the "playing" time a bit....it was
more
like 10-15 minutes....next time I'll keep that in mind when I hook
into
one.........Mike

Isn't the current theory for all fish that you should get the process
over
with ASAP and release the fish? Why would carp be any different, other
than
the fact that people who fish for them see them as having a useful
purpose,
i.e.: a big fight. We're not talking about sharks. Carp's physiology is
no
different from that of a trout or a bass.



I actually was serious when asking for the OES on this. My personal take
is
that all fish are in their niche, and if I catch one, any one, I should
return it and let it get back to what it does. However, I find it
incredibly
hard to return a pike that I find hanging out in the tailrace of a rapid,
waiting for some trout to get washed down. Likewise, having grown up with
hook and worm, barefoot and muddy, hoping once too often to hook a trout
and
having hauled in a carp or a sucker, I also find it tempting to make
fertilizer out of them. But not really knowing as much about ecosystems as
I
should, I always toss them back (carp, suckers and pike), hoping that I'm
erring on the right side.

Then again, that's precisely the mentality that got those Frankenfish
started, which are making a comeback, btw.

You should try eating pike sometime. It's a bit more work to get it ready
for cooking, what with the overabundance of slime coat and bones, and having
to remove the bullet from wherever it hit the fish, but it's really worth
the effort.

Doug Kanter wrote:
snip
... Carp's physiology is no
different from that of a trout or a bass.

Of course carp physiology is different. That's why carp are found
in warm, muddy backwaters and trout are not. If you're trying to
say that carp recover from stress, or not, in the same way that
trout and bass do, I would question that assumption as well.

--
Ken Fortenberry

"Greg Pavlov" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 30 Apr 2004 14:38:04 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


Electrolux feeding is what that's called, I think.

What does that mean ?

Electrolux....a brand of vacuum cleaners. Never mind. Hideous attempt at
humor, in between too many damned phonecalls for such a beautiful Friday.

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message
. com...
Doug Kanter wrote:
snip
... Carp's physiology is no
different from that of a trout or a bass.

Of course carp physiology is different. That's why carp are found
in warm, muddy backwaters and trout are not. If you're trying to
say that carp recover from stress, or not, in the same way that
trout and bass do, I would question that assumption as well.

--
Ken Fortenberry


I simply meant that they have enough in common with other fish that if it's
your goal to release one in healthy condition, there's no logical reason to
treat it differently.