barbless vs debarbed

I haven't purchased any new hooks that weren't barbless in a couple years,
and for a couple years before that debarbing was always step #1 in tying. I
honestly figured my boxes were 100% 'barbless' at this point.

But, for the hell of it, I commandeered some stocking material from my wife
and started going through my boxes, doing the stocking test on suspect
hooks. Well, let me tell you, I was surprised to find a LOT of hooks that
failed ( if snagging even a single thread is failure ) .... hooks I thought
I had debarbed well enough, and the rare purchased fly, a few I found last
year floating box and all down the HFork. In many cases I simply couldn't
smash the barb well enough to avoid the snag. I now have a couple hundred
assorted hooks, left over from my pre-barbless days and dozens of flies that
I'll have to try and find a good home for ... I'm anal enough that once I've
declared myself a 'barbless angler' I don't want a single barb in my kit ...
anywhere G

"Larry L" wrote in message
...
...I was surprised to find a LOT of hooks that failed ( if snagging even a
single thread is failure ) ....

Mighty fine threads in nylon stocking. I haven't tested this hypothesis,
but I'd be much surprised if surface rust on a used fly wasn't enough to
snag one of those threads occasionally.

Wolfgang
who is confident that he could make happen in a courtroom.

"Wolfgang" wrote


Mighty fine threads in nylon stocking. I haven't tested this hypothesis,
but I'd be much surprised if surface rust on a used fly wasn't enough to
snag one of those threads occasionally.

Wolfgang
who is confident that he could make happen in a courtroom.


That's why I made the side comment about 'if a single thread is failure'
..... in a couple cases I could not see what might be grabbing the cloth (
but I used only my cheater glasses not any real magnification ) .... I found
a couple where the barb seemed to have broken off leaving a rough spot that
caused 'failure'

I also realized that I probably can't get barbless hooks for all the
patterns I use. I have an old Tiemco catalog, so maybe they have added BL
hooks, but I don't see anything BL for hopper/ stonefly /wooly nasty type
patterns. I think I may have to climb down off my barbless high horse, at
least for some patterns G

"Larry L" wrote in message
...

"Wolfgang" wrote


Mighty fine threads in nylon stocking. I haven't tested this hypothesis,
but I'd be much surprised if surface rust on a used fly wasn't enough to
snag one of those threads occasionally.

Wolfgang
who is confident that he could make happen in a courtroom.


That's why I made the side comment about 'if a single thread is failure'
.... in a couple cases I could not see what might be grabbing the cloth
( but I used only my cheater glasses not any real magnification ) .... I
found a couple where the barb seemed to have broken off leaving a rough
spot that caused 'failure'

I also realized that I probably can't get barbless hooks for all the
patterns I use. I have an old Tiemco catalog, so maybe they have added
BL hooks, but I don't see anything BL for hopper/ stonefly /wooly nasty
type patterns. I think I may have to climb down off my barbless high
horse, at least for some patterns G


The Calif fish and game used to use a cotton ball. I think they got ruled
against. I use a dremel tool to make any hook I need barbless, barbless.
If I can not buy them barbless already. But also check that those barbless
hooks are really barbless. I bought a few packages of barbless salmon
mooching hooks for the ocean in about 1992 and as I rigged up 2 miles out in
the ocean, they all had barbs on the hooks.

Larry L wrote:

I also realized that I probably can't get barbless hooks for all the
patterns I use. I have an old Tiemco catalog, so maybe they have added BL
hooks, but I don't see anything BL for hopper/ stonefly /wooly nasty type
patterns. I think I may have to climb down off my barbless high horse, at
least for some patterns G

The TMC 200R and 5263 both come in BL, so that covers (for me, anyway),
most hoppers, stoneflies and streamers/buggers. The real problem for me
is the lack of true BL variants for the straight-eye hooks I like for
tiny flies (TMC 101s and TMC 3488s). Fortunately, the barbs on the
regular 101s and 2488s do seem to pinch down fairly easily and completely.

BTW, I went through my nymph and dry fly boxes the other night and was
surprised at the number of flies in there with non-pinched barbs. Like
you, I mostly tie these days on TMC BL hooks, and I pinch the rest down
before tying. But I've gotten into the habit I guess of pinching the
barbs of store-bought flies, swap flies, and older flies collected over
the decades only when I tie them on the tippet on-stream. Bad habit.
Many (especially those tied on older Mustads, I think) could not pass a
nylon-stocking test without filing the barb or barb-nub.

JR wrote:
...... the straight-eye hooks I like for
tiny flies (TMC 101s and TMC 3488s).

Whoops. 2488s.

JR
(who needs to wear his glasses when typing this stuff)

"JR" wrote


The TMC 200R and 5263 both come in BL, so that covers (for me, anyway),
most hoppers, stoneflies and streamers/buggers.

My .pdf catalog I downloaded doesn't show them ... but, I vaguely remember
seeing 200R BLs in West Yellowstone ... the 200R is what I've used for such
flies in the past





The real problem for me
is the lack of true BL variants for the straight-eye hooks I like for tiny
flies (TMC 101s and TMC 3488s). Fortunately, the barbs on the regular
101s and 2488s do seem to pinch down fairly easily and completely.


A 206 BL looks like an interesting hook to try ... but I've never seen one
in the flesh


I really like the 103 BL, but it's hard to find .... it's cool looking and
wicked sharp ( not real strong, though ) ...plus I love the affectation of
replying to the "what ya using?" question with something like ... "a rusty
half spent spinner ... in size 19 " ( the 103 comes in odd sizes ;-)


some hooks are hard to find ... I may call my buddies ( buddy in this case
means I'm obnoxious enough and bug them enough that they recognize me) at
Blue Ribbon and get them to special order some BLs ... they buy a ton of
hooks and can probably get them without a long wait.


Bad habit.
Many (especially those tied on older Mustads, I think) could not pass a
nylon-stocking test without filing the barb or barb-nub.


I found a lot of un-de-barbed flies in my boxes too ... really surprised me
.... I'd have lost a lot of shiny nickels betting there would be no more than
a couple .... they were nearly all nymphs tied long ago, but never used,
and kept so I can look like I actually know what I'm doing when I open my
boxes in front of one of you real fisherguys G ... I carry a hunk of yarn
for the same reason

Larry L wrote:
"JR" wrote

The TMC 200R and 5263 both come in BL, so that covers (for me, anyway),
most hoppers, stoneflies and streamers/buggers.

My .pdf catalog I downloaded doesn't show them ... but, I vaguely remember
seeing 200R BLs in West Yellowstone ... the 200R is what I've used for such
flies in the past

http://www.umpqua.com/hooks.htm (Click on Nymph Barbless).

The sizes I use most I buy by the hundred from Kaufmann's.

http://tinyurl.com/qdoxy

JR