Foam Crayfish question

http://montana-riverboats.com/Pages/...nd_shrimp.html

The above is my favorite Crayfish pattern. I caught my biggest brown
in long time on this fly, on the lower Madison, late last fall.

After you catch the first fish, if you hold the fly underneath your net
and squeeze-pump the foam body of the fly a few times, as the
scent-laden fish slime runs down off the net.....then the fly suddenly
becomes noticably, substantially more effective.

Is that "unethical?" Why?

Am I trolling this question? Maybe. But it is an interesting
question. Ethical/not ethical depends on which and whose rules
you play by, it seems to me. Are there any moral absolutes in
the fishing business?

I've published quite a few fly tying pieces in glossy magazines over the
years. But I know I could never get anything about
scent-laden foam Crayfish flies published. Even though they're hot as
a fish catching pistol. Why not is part of my original question.
Why are the concepts of odor and wiggling, lure-like flies
so totally off limits in polite fly fishing society?

--
/* Sandy Pittendrigh --oO0
** http://montana-riverboats.com
*/

sandy wrote:
snip
Why are the concepts of odor and wiggling, lure-like flies
so totally off limits in polite fly fishing society?

It is harder to fool a fish with fur and feathers than
with scent and lures. That's the essence of it. On a
continuum with bleach and TNT on one end and fur and
feathers on the other we all choose just how badly we
want to catch a fish.

--
Ken Fortenberry

RE we all choose just how badly we
want to catch a fish.

So you're saying it's a matter of simple choice,
rather than 'ethics' in any way?
Ken likes to fish with anything made out of fur
and feathers, as long as it doesn't smell
and it doesn't wiggle. What else am I missing?

Joe Blow likes to fish with Joe's Hoppers,
David likes the a Parachute Adams
and Sandy likes the Foam Crayfish.
It's all a matter of personal choice,
like choosing a shirt in the morning?

Or is it 'unethical' to fish with wigglers,
and or scented crayfish?


--
/* Vinny Marinara Sauce --oO0
** http://montana-riverboats.com
*/

sandy wrote:
RE we all choose just how badly we
want to catch a fish.

So you're saying it's a matter of simple choice,
rather than 'ethics' in any way?

Have to agree. Any serious ethical question would be along the lines of
"is it OK to harass wildlife for no reason other than 'fun'?", etc. Which
type of lure one chooses to do it is a simple personal preference, not a
matter of ethics.

JR

"sandy" wrote in message
. ..
http://montana-riverboats.com/Pages/...nd_shrimp.html

The above is my favorite Crayfish pattern. I caught my biggest brown
in long time on this fly, on the lower Madison, late last fall.

After you catch the first fish, if you hold the fly underneath your net
and squeeze-pump the foam body of the fly a few times, as the scent-laden
fish slime runs down off the net.....then the fly suddenly
becomes noticably, substantially more effective.

(snip)
/* Sandy Pittendrigh

Hi Sandy,
I may have seen this pic, or something similar before, but some questions.
- Why don't you tie it with the hook gap up?
If you use weight, if so, it appears, the critter would be upside down.
I watch quite a few and the orientation is always to scurry back with their
backs to the top as they seek cover. Orientation would seem to me, for
tying, would be to get the hook point away from the bottom stuff.
But, I have seen them, when they were maybe kinda kinkie (sp) they would get
in some different positions.
For mine I always use hook gap up with there being the top of the fly along
the shank.
So I'm just curious.
DaveMohnsen
Denver

"JR" wrote in message ...
sandy wrote:
RE we all choose just how badly we
want to catch a fish.

So you're saying it's a matter of simple choice,
rather than 'ethics' in any way?

Have to agree. Any serious ethical question would be along the lines of
"is it OK to harass wildlife for no reason other than 'fun'?", etc. Which
type of lure one chooses to do it is a simple personal preference, not a
matter of ethics.

Given a limited number of options, choosing which type to use CAN be a
simple matter of personal preference. Whether or not ethics enter into the
equation is another matter. One thing is sure, though. If the correct
answer to a question is simple, it is NOT a matter of ethics......and vice
versa.

Wolfgang

Dave Wrote:

Hi Sandy,
I may have seen this pic, or something similar before, but some questions.
- Why don't you tie it with the hook gap up?
If you use weight, if so, it appears, the critter would be upside down.
Hi Dave:

Good questions. Actually that fly has no hook at all yet.
I tie them on a thin needle, finish the fly, slide it off
the needle and then add the hook later, almost as an afterthought.
I photographed that one before the hook was attached.
You can attach the hook any way you want.


To add weight, I add them to the "pincher assembly."
I need to find time to finish a complete step-by-step sequence,
so it's easier to see what the deal is.
It's too hard to explain it in words.


--
/* Sandy Pittendrigh --oO0
** http://montana-riverboats.com
*/

Looks like a knockoff of the Clouser crayfish but using foam instead of
feathers for the legs. Yuck! Check out Clousers crayfish if you want to use
these killers. They should be outlawed for smallmouth.


"sandy" wrote in message
...

Dave Wrote:

Hi Sandy,
I may have seen this pic, or something similar before, but some
questions.
- Why don't you tie it with the hook gap up?
If you use weight, if so, it appears, the critter would be upside down.
Hi Dave:

Good questions. Actually that fly has no hook at all yet.
I tie them on a thin needle, finish the fly, slide it off
the needle and then add the hook later, almost as an afterthought.
I photographed that one before the hook was attached.
You can attach the hook any way you want.


To add weight, I add them to the "pincher assembly."
I need to find time to finish a complete step-by-step sequence,
so it's easier to see what the deal is.
It's too hard to explain it in words.


--
/* Sandy Pittendrigh --oO0
** http://montana-riverboats.com
*/

sandy wrote:


To add weight, I add them to the "pincher assembly."
I need to find time to finish a complete step-by-step sequence,
so it's easier to see what the deal is.
It's too hard to explain it in words.

Hmmm ... it seems counter-intuitive to add weight to the pinchers.
Don't crawfish raise their claws/pinchers when in the defensive
position? Seems like you'd want the pinchers to float higher than the tail.


Chuck Vance

Conan The Librarian wrote:
sandy wrote:

Hmmm ... it seems counter-intuitive to add weight to the pinchers.
Don't crawfish raise their claws/pinchers when in the defensive
position? Seems like you'd want the pinchers to float higher than the
tail.

I really do need to make a photo sequence. This is a good fly.
It isn't new. I've been fishing this pattern for several years now.

I don't add the weight to the pinchers. I add it to the narrow
length of foam that connects the two pinchers. The fly is made
from two pieces of foam: one tapered, tube-like piece for the body
and one roughly "U" shaped piece that makes the pinchers, where
the ends of the "U" are fat enough to carve out pinchers on each end.

The bottom of the U gets wrapped in a nylon netting (gray-dyed spawn
sack) to give it enough strength. Without the spawn sack reinforcement
at the bottom of the U, the pinchers often separate and break off, after
repeated casting. If I want to add weight (I *always* do) I wrap 2-4
small split shots into the nylon netting at the bottom of the pincher U.
Then I add a small dab of clear water-based fabric cement, and then
put the fly together. The front end of the thorax gets slit horizontally
with a razor blade, in order to receive the U shaped pincher.
A few well-placed thread wraps sews it all up.

Fish grab onto these flies and they don't let go.
Have you ever caught a crab that wouldn't let go of a piece of meat
tied to a string? Every kid has done that once or twice. Fish hang
onto soft crayfish patterns like a crab to a piece of meat.
Sometimes you set the hook and it doesn't work. And then bang, bang,
bang, they hit again anyway.




--
/* Sandy Pittendrigh --oO0
** http://montana-riverboats.com
*/