Floater help needed

OK, the scene is that you are going to hop in your kickboat and float a
river known to have some trout.

You don't expect any hatches, or if they occur feel prepared to fish them.

The water doesn't have many obvious holding areas, however, you may stop and
fish those few that exist with nymphs.

But most of the time you're just going to be floating and fishing at the
same time. The fishing is really an add-on, mainly it's just an outing to
enjoy Nature, but it sill might as well be successful fishing, if possible.
What flies and techniques would you plan to use? I have nearly zero
experience fishing moving water from a floating craft, as opposed to using
the craft for access and then wading, so I need advice. Controlling my
WaterMaster with fins is pretty easy but I will still be moving downstream
most of the time so any given spot will be a cover it once and only once
situation. Most of the water is 'pool' type water, too deep to wade,
between the rarer riffle/drop sections.

"Larry L" wrote

Most of the water is 'pool' type water, too deep to wade,
between the rarer riffle/drop sections.


Water temp is 48.5 degrees F ... so fish aren't likely to be really active
.... they are Rainbows, or if over 18 inches, Steelhead G ( California
joke )

"Larry L" wrote in message
...
OK, the scene is that you are going to hop in your kickboat and float a
river known to have some trout.

You don't expect any hatches, or if they occur feel prepared to fish them.

The water doesn't have many obvious holding areas, however, you may stop
and fish those few that exist with nymphs.

But most of the time you're just going to be floating and fishing at the
same time. The fishing is really an add-on, mainly it's just an outing
to enjoy Nature, but it sill might as well be successful fishing, if
possible. What flies and techniques would you plan to use? I have
nearly zero experience fishing moving water from a floating craft, as
opposed to using the craft for access and then wading, so I need advice.
Controlling my WaterMaster with fins is pretty easy but I will still be
moving downstream most of the time so any given spot will be a cover it
once and only once situation. Most of the water is 'pool' type water,
too deep to wade, between the rarer riffle/drop sections.


I do recall in one of your previous post that you didn't really care about
fly-fishing techniques,
so I'm a little surprised when post this. To me fly-fishing is all about
technique, or else one
might as well fish with a spin rod & reel and nightcrawlers. But I'll try to
answer this from my knowledge and experiences.

All rivers and streams are made up of four segments; Riffles, Runs (Pocket
Water), Pools and Tail Outs
in those sequence. Based on what you wrote, that you'll be fishing from a
kickboat. One method would be
dead-drifting with a strike indicator:
http://www.blueskyfly.com/images/britespot2.jpg
There are two important factors with this set-up. Matching the current
speed, and depth. You can actually
put on a heavy lead on your line, drop it down into the pools to estimate
the depth. Once you determined
this, you can make your rig. As for flies for dead-drifting, some good ones
are; Beaded Hare's Ear Nymph,
Golden Rib Hare's Ear Nymph, or the Beaded Fox Squirrel Nymph. A lot of
dead-drifting is also guessing
where the feeding lanes are. To slow down the drift, add weight. Watch the
strike-indicator for any sudden movement.

I prefer to fish the seams of the Riffles between the Runs and the Tail
Outs, I just find it more fun.
I also found most of the big fish to be right before the Tail Outs. I like
to use the active Nymphing method
with a Soft Hackle Wooley Worm. Pump the rod a bit to give it some tail
action and trout will chase it
out of their feeding zones.

Then there's always my favorite; the dry fly. I still get charged when a
trout takes a fly off the surface.
#16 Adams or #16 Light Cahill.

Good luck, and let us know how it goes,
fwiw,
-tom

"Larry L" wrote in message
...

OK, the scene is that you are going to hop in your kickboat and float a
river known to have some trout.
You don't expect any hatches, or if they occur feel prepared to fish them.
The water doesn't have many obvious holding areas, however, you may stop
and
fish those few that exist with nymphs.

But most of the time you're just going to be floating and fishing at the
same time. The fishing is really an add-on, mainly it's just an outing
to
enjoy Nature, but it sill might as well be successful fishing, if
possible.
What flies and techniques would you plan to use? . . . Controlling my
WaterMaster with fins is pretty easy but I will still be moving
downstream
most of the time so any given spot will be a cover it once and only once
situation. Most of the water is 'pool' type water, too deep to wade,
between the rarer riffle/drop sections.

Kickboats were designed to get the fisherman
to the specific (deep) places he wants to go in
order to try the method he believes will catch
fish here and now. Your scenario suggests you
need a drift boat and an oarsman/guide too.
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

"Tom Nakashima" wrote

I do recall in one of your previous post that you didn't really care
about fly-fishing techniques,
so I'm a little surprised when post this. To me fly-fishing is all about
technique, or else one
might as well fish with a spin rod & reel and nightcrawlers.


I don't remember saying exactly that, but I'm not much of a fisherman. By
that I mean I'm not motivated all that much by catching fish. I know guys
that are obsessed with catching, and I used to have similar obsessions about
waterfowling, so I understand. But, I'm not obsessed about "success" in
fishing. (aside: Last summer after an evening on the HFork I was
chatting with a fellow that was moaning about "not catching" and he went on
to mention a famous Utah fishery and how it's so great because he could
catch "50 fish a day" there, bobber fishing. I noted that I had been
there, done that, and would never go back. Nearly indignant, he asked,
"Don't you want to catch LOTS of fish each day?" I answered and meant it,
"No, too boring." )

I fly fish about 90 days each year but I'm not an avid fisherman and I
doubt I'd fish ever if limited to bait or spinner gear.

But, it's not fly casting, or techniques that appeal ... for me it's the
chance for improved intimacy with my prey and it's micro-environment that
fly fishing allows/requires that make the sport engrossing.

A big part of what I mean is simply seeking less between me and my prey,
less weight, no gears, no machine made lures, less distance, even less
water.

Nearly 100% of my fly fishing is to visible fish, rising to a hatch or
positioned where I can see them in the water and sight nymph for them. That
dry fly and sight nymphing requires a wide range of casting skills and
variations in presentation .... most of which I've developed adequate skills
at ( but I am and admit to being a crappy caster, compared to many fly
anglers that are all caps FLY fishermen ).

But, 'fishing the water' isn't something I enjoy for long periods ... I'd
probably fly fish 4 or 5 days/ year ( and eat the catch) if it was all that
was available ( that is about how much I used to fish the typical Sierra
streams up the hill). I have, still can and occasionally do catch fish
on dries and nymphs in this more typical "likely lie" manner, but to me it's
dull work since, as I tried to point out, "catching fish" isn't my "why" in
"why fly fish." and because it doesn't force concentration to high levels.
( nymphing does require lots of concentration, but it's focus on tackle,
"watch the bobber" not focus on Nature, ala the hunts I love)
( Aside: most people seem to prefer to fish "with a buddy" ... I don't. I
enjoy chatting about fishing, before and after, but when I find the kind of
angling that I drive thousands of miles seeking, it requires too much
concentration to break with "while fishing" socializing .... when really
fishing, the whole world is just me, my prey, and that prey's intricate
micro-environment .... and that is how I want it).

However, this thread is about fishing moving water from a moving craft
to fish hidden deep in the water, using fly gear. NOT, my norm, not
even something I've tried more than an hour total in decades of fishing.

This thread exists because boredom is terrible stuff, I have a trout stream
(Lower Stanislaus) 3 miles from home and a kickboat, the weather has been
far too nice, and a float down that river seems like a nice way to spend a
few hours. If I'm going to float it, I might as well come prepared to
fish
.... I don't own any spin gear, so need to fish with fly gear. I have an
extra kickboat if someone wants to join me, seems exactly the type of
fishing where human company would be a good addition.

I'm leaning towards a beadhead woooly buggger fished as in stillwater at
places, dead drifted in others, allowed to swing in others .... if I catch a
fish or two .. cool ... if not, it should be a fun float and better than
the boredom that has me visiting roff and typing this.

Speaking of which ... this place seems dead ... R.I.P. R.O.F.F. ??

"Larry L" wrote in message
...
I have nearly zero experience fishing moving water from a floating craft,
as opposed to using the craft for access and then wading, so I need
advice. Controlling my WaterMaster with fins is pretty easy but I will
still be moving downstream most of the time so any given spot will be a
cover it once and only once situation. Most of the water is 'pool'
type water, too deep to wade, between the rarer riffle/drop sections.

Larry,
I should also mention, trout spook very easily. Moving downstream in any
watercraft will draw attention to the fish. Fish hear by vibrations in the
water and it doesn't take much. I hope you don't look like the Mark Twain
coming down river with those fins on.
fwiw,
-tom

"Larry L" wrote in message
...

"Tom Nakashima" wrote

I do recall in one of your previous post that you didn't really care
about fly-fishing techniques,
so I'm a little surprised when post this. To me fly-fishing is all about
technique, or else one
might as well fish with a spin rod & reel and nightcrawlers.


I don't remember saying exactly that, but I'm not much of a fisherman. By
that I mean I'm not motivated all that much by catching fish. I know
guys
that are obsessed with catching, and I used to have similar obsessions
about
waterfowling, so I understand. But, I'm not obsessed about "success" in
fishing. (aside: Last summer after an evening on the HFork I was
chatting with a fellow that was moaning about "not catching" and he went
on
to mention a famous Utah fishery and how it's so great because he could
catch "50 fish a day" there, bobber fishing. I noted that I had been
there, done that, and would never go back. Nearly indignant, he asked,
"Don't you want to catch LOTS of fish each day?" I answered and meant
it,
"No, too boring." )

I fly fish about 90 days each year but I'm not an avid fisherman and I
doubt I'd fish ever if limited to bait or spinner gear.

But, it's not fly casting, or techniques that appeal ... for me it's the
chance for improved intimacy with my prey and it's micro-environment that
fly fishing allows/requires that make the sport engrossing.

A big part of what I mean is simply seeking less between me and my prey,
less weight, no gears, no machine made lures, less distance, even less
water.

Nearly 100% of my fly fishing is to visible fish, rising to a hatch or
positioned where I can see them in the water and sight nymph for them.
That
dry fly and sight nymphing requires a wide range of casting skills and
variations in presentation .... most of which I've developed adequate
skills
at ( but I am and admit to being a crappy caster, compared to many fly
anglers that are all caps FLY fishermen ).

But, 'fishing the water' isn't something I enjoy for long periods ... I'd
probably fly fish 4 or 5 days/ year ( and eat the catch) if it was all
that
was available ( that is about how much I used to fish the typical Sierra
streams up the hill). I have, still can and occasionally do catch fish
on dries and nymphs in this more typical "likely lie" manner, but to me
it's
dull work since, as I tried to point out, "catching fish" isn't my "why"
in
"why fly fish." and because it doesn't force concentration to high levels.
( nymphing does require lots of concentration, but it's focus on tackle,
"watch the bobber" not focus on Nature, ala the hunts I love)
( Aside: most people seem to prefer to fish "with a buddy" ... I don't. I
enjoy chatting about fishing, before and after, but when I find the kind
of
angling that I drive thousands of miles seeking, it requires too much
concentration to break with "while fishing" socializing .... when really
fishing, the whole world is just me, my prey, and that prey's intricate
micro-environment .... and that is how I want it).

However, this thread is about fishing moving water from a moving craft
to fish hidden deep in the water, using fly gear. NOT, my norm, not
even something I've tried more than an hour total in decades of fishing.

This thread exists because boredom is terrible stuff, I have a trout
stream
(Lower Stanislaus) 3 miles from home and a kickboat, the weather has been
far too nice, and a float down that river seems like a nice way to spend a
few hours. If I'm going to float it, I might as well come prepared to
fish
... I don't own any spin gear, so need to fish with fly gear. I have an
extra kickboat if someone wants to join me, seems exactly the type of
fishing where human company would be a good addition.

I'm leaning towards a beadhead woooly buggger fished as in stillwater at
places, dead drifted in others, allowed to swing in others .... if I catch
a
fish or two .. cool ... if not, it should be a fun float and better than
the boredom that has me visiting roff and typing this. Speaking of which
... this place seems dead ... R.I.P. R.O.F.F. ??

You have a great time on the river Larry,
-tom

Larry L wrote:
OK, the scene is that you are going to hop in your kickboat and float a
river known to have some trout.

You don't expect any hatches, or if they occur feel prepared to fish them.

The water doesn't have many obvious holding areas, however, you may stop and
fish those few that exist with nymphs.

But most of the time you're just going to be floating and fishing at the
same time. The fishing is really an add-on, mainly it's just an outing to
enjoy Nature, but it sill might as well be successful fishing, if possible.
What flies and techniques would you plan to use? I have nearly zero
experience fishing moving water from a floating craft, as opposed to using
the craft for access and then wading, so I need advice. Controlling my
WaterMaster with fins is pretty easy but I will still be moving downstream
most of the time so any given spot will be a cover it once and only once
situation. Most of the water is 'pool' type water, too deep to wade,
between the rarer riffle/drop sections.


Larry,

I assume you'll be floating the Lower Stan. I wouldn't change to any
special flies. Just use what you've found works. Most likely, small
baetis patterns. I wouldn't rule out midges(ever), and I heard a SJ Worm
works down there. Get any PMDs this time of year. They're happening down
my way. Streamers would be a fun way to past the time while floating,
but i'm not sure how effective it will be on that section.

Techniques? Rollcast and dead drift. ;-) Sounds like fun.

brians

"Tom Nakashima" wrote


You have a great time on the river Larry,
-tom


Thank You ... but, it's looking too damn cold for a few days now.

Larry ( who favors comfort )

"briansfly" wrote


I assume you'll be floating the Lower Stan. I wouldn't change to any
special flies. Just use what you've found works. Most likely, small baetis
patterns. I wouldn't rule out midges(ever), and I heard a SJ Worm works
down there. Get any PMDs this time of year. They're happening down my way.
Streamers would be a fun way to past the time while floating, but i'm not
sure how effective it will be on that section.

Techniques? Rollcast and dead drift. ;-) Sounds like fun.

brians



I've floated the Stan a few times, stopping to fish, and found all the
patterns you mention effective when fishing while wading, boat parked. It
never ceases to amaze me how many fish can be caught on tiny little midge
patterns and small mayfly nymphs .... any place with trout, I bet ... and
I've gotten several very nice big Rainbows on pink SJ Worms from the Stan.

As I mentioned elsewhere, it's the "while moving" sections too deep to wade,
too boring to just drift through ( in the past I've just rowed faster, not
trying to fish the majority of the water ) that I seek advice on ... your
streamer suggestion seems most likely, I have caught Stan trout on woooly
bugggers cast from shore to such water, much like stillwater fishing at it's
least inspiring G