PMWS pork entering food chain

On Thu, 11 Jan 2007 08:40:25 -0000, "Jim Webster"
wrote:


wrote in message
roups.com...
Jim Webster wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...
Jim Webster wrote:

snip

I confess I don't really care. I correct them when they tell lies
about
my
industry, but as far as I am concerned if they don't want to eat meat,
fine,
there are an increasing number of people out there who do
Terrorism is merely terrorism, and we have jails for people who commit
that
sort of offence

It must have been a careless admission that you are with the meat
industry. I long wondered why some people attack animal rights
advocates and those who speak out against cruelty to animals on
alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian. I also suspected that the intensity of
those attacks are driven not by any conviction but by pure self
interest of those who profit from the horrible suffering of animals
produced by factory farming. Animals as living, feeling, suffering
creatures mean nothing to the likes of you who try to justify your
cruelty on helpless animals for your profit margin.

yawn
I'm honest,

Was it honesty or just a careless slip?

I'm the one who has the courage to post under their own name, I'm not so
ashamed of my opinions that I hide my ID

You have only just posted under the name of Derek Moody, another of
your sock puppets. Given you extremist tendencies, threats, bullying
and intimidation, is it any wonder people find the need to protect
themselves, and their families from the likes of you?


which is more than can be said about those animal rights
activists who were paid by an Irish meat factory group to protest against
live exports out of ireland.

That would also be deplorable.

fortunately most people out there know that the sort of person who digs
up
your granny if you don't agree with them is not the sort of person you
can
trust to tell you the truth on anything else either

I don't care about your or anybody else's personal life but I have
for some time been wondering about the canned posts some people are
putting out and they did look like meat industry shills to me.

And people should care about that exactly why?

Given your personality, you need to ask that? LOL



One has
to wonder why some people would personally attack you and call you
names just because you express your concern for animals unless they are
connected to the meat industry.

you attack me with no knowledge of my life,

Your canned posts are self explanatory. Violence, abuse, bullying and
intimidation.


I love animals and it bothers me that
they suffer and the least I can do is to make sure that they do not
suffer on my account. For some reason, there are a number of people on
this list who hate people for showing concern for animals. Is that
because they know that what they are doing is wrong and must silence
those who remind them of it?

no, it's because they get fed up of a lot of ignorant saddos repeating out
of date information

Use a kill filter, as you have so often claimed you do, yet still
manage to post 10/1 canned responses. You could always try refuting
the facts.



But never mind, the world over meat eating is increasing, because
countries
where poverty has forced people into vegetarianism are becoming more
prosperous and the people are eating meat

They will all be driving cars and demanding all the western type
conveniences also, soon turning our planet into a ball of dirty used up
garbage dump.

too late, it already happened.
The biggest damage agriculture has done to the planet is feeding people in
cities and letting them turn the place into a festering dirt ball

Careful, your real personality is showing through. Is this response a
CLA authorized one?

Jim Webster wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
Jim Webster wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...
Jim Webster wrote:

snip

I confess I don't really care. I correct them when they tell lies
about
my
industry, but as far as I am concerned if they don't want to eat meat,
fine,
there are an increasing number of people out there who do
Terrorism is merely terrorism, and we have jails for people who commit
that
sort of offence

It must have been a careless admission that you are with the meat
industry. I long wondered why some people attack animal rights
advocates and those who speak out against cruelty to animals on
alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian. I also suspected that the intensity of
those attacks are driven not by any conviction but by pure self
interest of those who profit from the horrible suffering of animals
produced by factory farming. Animals as living, feeling, suffering
creatures mean nothing to the likes of you who try to justify your
cruelty on helpless animals for your profit margin.

yawn
I'm honest,

Was it honesty or just a careless slip?

I'm the one who has the courage to post under their own name, I'm not so
ashamed of my opinions that I hide my ID

It is not a question of being ashamed but it is the unfortunate fact
that we have too many nut cases who like to harass those they disagree
with. I used to post under my real name but found that even moderate
positions can make some crazies go after your family.


which is more than can be said about those animal rights
activists who were paid by an Irish meat factory group to protest against
live exports out of ireland.

That would also be deplorable.

fortunately most people out there know that the sort of person who digs
up
your granny if you don't agree with them is not the sort of person you
can
trust to tell you the truth on anything else either

I don't care about your or anybody else's personal life but I have
for some time been wondering about the canned posts some people are
putting out and they did look like meat industry shills to me.

And people should care about that exactly why?

People who have a vested interest in the meat industry are more likely
to lie about what goes on the factory farms and slaughter houses.


One has
to wonder why some people would personally attack you and call you
names just because you express your concern for animals unless they are
connected to the meat industry.

you attack me with no knowledge of my life,

Not really. Tell me what it is that you consider an attack?

I love animals and it bothers me that
they suffer and the least I can do is to make sure that they do not
suffer on my account. For some reason, there are a number of people on
this list who hate people for showing concern for animals. Is that
because they know that what they are doing is wrong and must silence
those who remind them of it?

no, it's because they get fed up of a lot of ignorant saddos repeating out
of date information

I do not trust those with vested interests in making a living off of
animal cruelty.


But never mind, the world over meat eating is increasing, because
countries
where poverty has forced people into vegetarianism are becoming more
prosperous and the people are eating meat

They will all be driving cars and demanding all the western type
conveniences also, soon turning our planet into a ball of dirty used up
garbage dump.

too late, it already happened.
The biggest damage agriculture has done to the planet is feeding people in
cities and letting them turn the place into a festering dirt ball

Jim Webster

On Thu, 11 Jan 2007 08:40:25 -0000, "Jim Webster"
wrote:


wrote in message
roups.com...
Jim Webster wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...
Jim Webster wrote:

snip

I confess I don't really care. I correct them when they tell lies
about
my
industry, but as far as I am concerned if they don't want to eat meat,
fine,
there are an increasing number of people out there who do
Terrorism is merely terrorism, and we have jails for people who commit
that
sort of offence

It must have been a careless admission that you are with the meat
industry. I long wondered why some people attack animal rights
advocates and those who speak out against cruelty to animals on
alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian. I also suspected that the intensity of
those attacks are driven not by any conviction but by pure self
interest of those who profit from the horrible suffering of animals
produced by factory farming. Animals as living, feeling, suffering
creatures mean nothing to the likes of you who try to justify your
cruelty on helpless animals for your profit margin.

yawn
I'm honest,

Was it honesty or just a careless slip?

I'm the one who has the courage to post under their own name, I'm not so
ashamed of my opinions that I hide my ID

You ought to be.

Most of us are happy being kept informed about the big bad world. It's
a shame bullies like you try to hinder that flow of information.

wrote in message
ps.com...

And people should care about that exactly why?

People who have a vested interest in the meat industry are more likely
to lie about what goes on the factory farms and slaughter houses.

and people making a living out of the animal rights movement have a vested
interest in spinning more horror stories to ensure that contributions keep
rolling in



no, it's because they get fed up of a lot of ignorant saddos repeating
out
of date information

I do not trust those with vested interests in making a living off of
animal cruelty.

the don't trust animal rights propaganda because they are all making a
living out of manufacturing tales of animal cruelty to get in money from
supporters


Jim Webster

Jim Webster wrote:
wrote in message
ps.com...

And people should care about that exactly why?

People who have a vested interest in the meat industry are more likely
to lie about what goes on the factory farms and slaughter houses.

and people making a living out of the animal rights movement have a vested
interest in spinning more horror stories to ensure that contributions keep
rolling in

We send them money but probably not as much as they would like. The
reason we send them money is because we agree with what they are doing
and if we had more money we would send more.



no, it's because they get fed up of a lot of ignorant saddos repeating
out
of date information

I do not trust those with vested interests in making a living off of
animal cruelty.

the don't trust animal rights propaganda because they are all making a
living out of manufacturing tales of animal cruelty to get in money from
supporters

I only wish that it was true but unfortunately there is nothing to make
up about all the horrible cruelty associated with factory farming.

On Thu, 11 Jan 2007 10:26:09 -0000, "Jim Webster"
wrote:


wrote in message
ups.com...

And people should care about that exactly why?

People who have a vested interest in the meat industry are more likely
to lie about what goes on the factory farms and slaughter houses.

and people making a living out of the animal rights movement have a vested
interest in spinning more horror stories to ensure that contributions keep
rolling in

What stories are fabricated?



no, it's because they get fed up of a lot of ignorant saddos repeating
out
of date information

I do not trust those with vested interests in making a living off of
animal cruelty.

the don't trust animal rights propaganda because they are all making a
living out of manufacturing tales of animal cruelty to get in money from
supporters

What tales are manufactured?

wrote in message
oups.com...


I only wish that it was true but unfortunately there is nothing to make
up about all the horrible cruelty associated with factory farming.

but the only evidence you have is what comes from those who make a living
out of selling that story
These who somehow neglect to mention that all farms get cross compliance
inspections from government agencies on a regular basis, and also they
neglect to mention that if they have a case, then the RSPCA will be round
there pretty damn quick to deal with it, and the RSPCA enthusiastically
prosecutes.
So how many of these cases they have produced have resulted in RSPCA
prosecutions, or any sort of prosecution?

They are purely scam artists conning a gullible public for their own
financial gain

Jim Webster

On Thu, 11 Jan 2007 12:06:10 -0000, "Jim Webster"
wrote:


wrote in message
roups.com...


I only wish that it was true but unfortunately there is nothing to make
up about all the horrible cruelty associated with factory farming.

but the only evidence you have is what comes from those who make a living
out of selling that story
These who somehow neglect to mention that all farms get cross compliance
inspections from government agencies on a regular basis, and also they
neglect to mention that if they have a case, then the RSPCA will be round
there pretty damn quick to deal with it, and the RSPCA enthusiastically
prosecutes.
So how many of these cases they have produced have resulted in RSPCA
prosecutions, or any sort of prosecution?

They are purely scam artists conning a gullible public for their own
financial gain

Jim Webster


That's a trifle desperate, even for you!

"Jim Webster" wrote in message ...

fortunately most people out there know that the sort of person who digs up
your granny if you don't agree with them is not the sort of person you can
trust to tell you the truth on anything else either

One instance. Your sort of business has put millions in an early grave.

But never mind, the world over meat eating is increasing, because countries
where poverty has forced people into vegetarianism are becoming more
prosperous and the people are eating meat

'C: Third World Poverty Caused by the Animal Exploitation Industry.

The Animal exploitation industries have boosted third world poverty
in a number of ways:-

C.a) The Expropriation of Land.

A colossal part of the Earth's land surface has been devoted to pasture,
"A quarter of the earth's landmass is used as pasture for cattle and other
livestock .."55

[Livestock now use 30 percent of the earth's entire land surface,
mostly permanent pasture but also including 33 percent of the
global arable land used to producing feed for livestock ..'
http://www.fao.org/newsroom/en/news/...448/index.html

'It is estimated that 73 percent of the world's grazing land has so
deteriorated that it has lost at least 25 percent of its animal carrying
capacity. UNEP, Global Environment Outlook 2000, Earthscan,
1999. ]

Some of this land has been acquired through expropriation.
This is as true in the third world today as it was centuries ago in the
over-industrialized nations. Large numbers of poor people have been
imprisoned, made homeless, killed, or have starved as a result of big
landowners expropriating land for pasture. The same sort of
expropriation has occurred, although not on the same scale, to provide
grains for livestock Animals in the over-industrialized world. As has
been pointed out above 14% of the land in third world countries is being
used for cash crops although it is not known what proportion of this
land is being used to grow grains for the Animal exploitation industry.

C.b) The Expropriation of Food.

Large areas of pastureland in the disintegrating/industrializing countries
are used for livestock Animals which are exported to the
over-industrialized world. Huge numbers of people in these countries
go hungry even though they are surrounded by livestock Animals,
"Birds Eye Walls import 30,000 tonnes of beef from Brazil every year."
Although meat exports from third world countries continue to grow,
they are declining relative to meat exports from the over-industrialied
nations.

The same is also true as regards the crops which provide feed for
livestock Animals. Huge numbers of people are going hungry even
though third world countries are producing vast quantities of grains
which are exported to feed livestock in the over-industrialized nations,
"Although soybeans are consumed directly as tofu and soy sauce in
many countries, food use accounts for a small fraction of the world
harvest. Most of the world's soybeans are grown primarily for the
protein meal that is widely used in pork and poultry rations. Argentina
and Brazil .. crush most of their beans and export them largely as meal,
retaining much of the oil for domestic consumption."

The over-industrialized world cannot grow enough feed for its livestock
and have to import huge quantities of fodder from third world countries,
"Because of the large amounts of grain required to produce beef, the
geographic location of cattle herds can be misleading. Most industrial
countries do not have sufficient agricultural land to support their meat
consumption. Beef production is particularly land-intensive, because
one calorie of meat production requires 3 calories of grain inputs for
pork and 10 calories for beef. Land requirements can be up to 50 times
higher than for protein production from grain. As a result, a great deal
of the feed consumed in industrialized countries is not produced on
the home farm, but purchased from developing countries. For example,
Western Europe imports more than 40%, or 21 million tons per year, of
its feed grains from the Third World.";"Feeding the meat-eating (world)
class takes nearly 40% of the world's grain, grown on close to one-fifth
of the world's cropland."; "There has been a fundamental shift in world
agriculture this century from food grains to feed grains, and cattle now
compete with people for food. A third of the world's fish catch and
more than a third of the world's total grain output is fed to livestock."61
Huge numbers of third world peoples are starving because the crops
grown in their country are exported to fatten Animals in the
over-industrialized nations, "More people are hungry now than ever
before. Many states where hunger is prevalent are net exporters of food."
Even during times of famine, grains continue to be exported from third
world countries to the over-industrialized world, "In addition, about
two-thirds of the total domestic grain crop goes to feed-lots. The
agribusiness production of grains for foreign exchange-earning exports
to the industrialized region is one among several factors in the
displacement of the rural poor in the Third world onto marginal,
ecologically sensitive land. The magnitude of the food value involved
in this trade is significant: the 500 million people suffering starvation
could find relief from this condition if they had the cash to buy the
grains exported to industrial country feedlots. In that sense, the present
level of meat consumption in the wealthy industrialized countries is
directly related to starvation in the poor countries of the world."

C.c) The Expropriation of Resources.

Third world elites devote huge quantities of resources, from water,
minerals, and fossil fuels to the Animal exploitation industry when
these resources could be used to alleviate third world poverty,
"While it takes, on average, 25 gallons of water (113 litres) to produce
a pound of wheat in modern Western farming systems, it requires an
astounding 2,500 gallons (11,250 litres) of water to produce a pound
of meat."

C.d) Third world Elites Exploiting their own People for the sake of Meat.

Animals are a major export earner in many third world countries ..
"African export earnings from this source (live animals, meat, hides and
skins) exceed those from tobacco, tea or bauxite." Just as was the case
with exports of cash crops and raw materials for the car industries, the
wealth generated by Animal exports is expropriated by third world elites.
Third world elites, like consumers in the over-industrialized nations, are
meat eaters, and some of their countries' export earnings are used to
sustain a carnivorous diet. Third world elites would rather spend money
on buying meat for their own consumption rather than alleviating poverty.
They are therefore responsible for some of the poverty caused by the
Animal exploitation industry.

C.e) Rich in Meat, Poor in Wealth.

There is a general rule about the Animal exploitation industry in third
world countries and this is that the greater the wealth generated by
Animal exports the greater the scale of poverty. For example .. "meat
exporting countries are among Africa's poorest and most drought
stricken: Chad, Sudan, Niger, Somalia, Mali, Botswana and Namibia."
There are a number of reasons for this:- Firstly, because third world
countries' export earnings are confiscated by third world elites rather
than disbursed throughout the population;

Secondly, the Animal exploitation industry is such a land extensive
enterprise that little land left for the development of local agriculture or
other industries;

Thirdly, the Animal exploitation industry uses only a small workforce,
thereby further limiting the spread of wealth throughout the population;
and,

Finally, the Animal exploitation industry is a capital intensive industry
which means that little capital is left for other industries.

As a consequence, "No other agro-export has contributed less to the
welfare of the Guatemalan population than beef. Cattle ranching has
displaced hundreds of small farmers and employed very few workers.
Moreover, Guatemala was no exception to the process common
throughout central America by which countries of the region rapidly
increased beef exports to the united states to meet the demands of fast
food chains like MacDonalds, while per capita domestic consumption
declined."
....
C.g) The Animal Exploitation Industry exacerbates Global Warming which
will Increase Third World Poverty.

The Animal exploitation industry is the biggest contributor to global warming.
It boosts global warming through Animal flatulence, the consumption of fossil
fuels to help run the Animal exploitation industries, and through the destruction
of the Earth's Phytosynthetic capacity e.g. the destruction of Forests. The
ecological devastation caused by the Animal exploitation industry is enormous:-

Firstly, a quarter of the Earth's land surface is now used for pasture and much
of this has been created by razing Forests, "In Mexico alone, 37 million acres
of forest have been destroyed since 1987 to provide grazing land for cattle.";

Secondly, some of the land used to provide fodder for livestock has also been
created by razing Forests; and,

Thirdly, huge numbers of people who have been chucked off their land by
Animal exploiters invade the Forests in order to grow crops. They use primitive
slash/burn techniques which entails setting fire to the Forests to provide fertiliser
ash for crops. Due to the increasing numbers of slash/burn farmers the Forests
no longer have the time to recover.

Most of the damage resulting from the Animal exploitation industry is caused
by the over-industrialized countries but the third world also contributes to the
damage. Once again it is likely that third world countries not only benefit least
from the Animal exploitation industry, but will suffer the most from the climatic
disasters caused by this industry.

C.h) Conclusions.

There are a number of conclusions to be drawn from this sketch of the poverty
caused by the Animal exploitation industry:-

Firstly, the Animal exploitation industry causes more poverty in third world
countries than any other industry. It is by far and away the biggest cause of
third world poverty.

Secondly, the Animal exploitation industry causes more poverty in third world
countries than all the cash crop industries combined - e.g. coffee/tea.

Thirdly, third world poverty will never be abolished until some of the land
currently being used by the Animal exploitation industry is distributed to the
poor in order to abolish global poverty.

Fourthly, most livestock Animals are consumed in the over-industrialized
world, "Most people in the world live on a substantially vegetarian diet.
Meat eating is a habit largely peculiar to the affluent West."; "Per capita meat
consumption is currently six times higher in the industrialized countries than
in the developing world (78kg/cap-yr compared to 14 kg/cap-yr). Moreover,
while industrial country per capita consumption has risen by another 20% in
the last 15 years, it has stagnated in the Third World."

Finally, it is impossible for everyone in third world countries to eat as much
meat as consumers in the over-industrialized nations. Despite the fact that
china now produces as much meat as america, it has a far larger population
than america and will never be able to produce the same level of per capita
meat consumption, "
....'
http://www.geocities.com/carbonomics...2/11sp12b.html

"pearl" wrote in message
...
"Jim Webster" wrote in message
...

fortunately most people out there know that the sort of person who digs
up
your granny if you don't agree with them is not the sort of person you
can
trust to tell you the truth on anything else either

One instance. Your sort of business has put millions in an early grave.

except that the rest of the world doesn't believe you and the amount of meat
being eaten is increasing steadily

The rest of the world isn't going to let their diet be dictated to by a tiny
minority in Europe and America

so there it is
tough
get out there and get a real life

Jim Webster