Oil/location report...

On Fri, 11 Jun 2010 14:56:09 -0500, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:

wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
No matter how much you want to argue otherwise, describing
a black man as "Urkel goes gangsta" is every bit as racist
as describing a black woman as "Aunt Jemima goes ho". On
this planet.

Oh, I have no idea what constitutes "racist" up Uranus way...

Yeah, you do.

No, really, I don't - I've never been to Uranus and have absolutely no desire to
EVER go...I don't even wish to see pictures or hear, er, tales...

You're not stupid, you're racist and

No, I'm not and no, I'm not - and when it comes to Obama, it's a particularly
silly - no, contradictory, nonsensical - accusation as you make it, esp. given
my stance on his racial makeup.


you use roff as your platform to spew racist comments with impunity.

Um, yeah...I gotta tell ya, that's funny...I doubt ROFF would be much of a
platform to garner support for (or even simply distribute) anything, on any
topic no matter how benign, simply given the number of readers.

I have no idea why you would want to do something so perverse
but you're not winning any converts or making any friends.

I didn't start this, you did with your typical charge of racism to anything not
gushingly favorable Obama. And I'm not looking to win anything, but I
notice, as is typical in these little "debates," with me or anyone else, your
tendency to avoid answering questions while making the same unsupported charge,
remains. I know there was nothing "racist" about my use of the phrase, and at
the end of the day, I don't really care what anyone else thinks.

HTH,
R

wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
You're not stupid, you're racist and

No, I'm not and no, I'm not - and when it comes to Obama, it's a particularly
silly - no, contradictory, nonsensical - accusation as you make it, esp. given
my stance on his racial makeup.

Yeah, I figured you'd eventually get around to this stupid dodge.
It can't be a racist comment because Obama is really a white guy !
Perhaps I was wrong about you not being stupid.

I have no idea why you would want to do something so perverse
but you're not winning any converts or making any friends.

I didn't start this, you did with your typical charge of racism to anything not
gushingly favorable Obama.

Damn right I did. Like I said, I'm going to speak out against
racist and offensive speech. And your idiotic comment was both.

And I'm not looking to win anything, but I
notice, as is typical in these little "debates," with me or anyone else, your
tendency to avoid answering questions while making the same unsupported charge,
remains.

In your case the questions are so ridiculous I usually don't
even read them, much less answer them. What kind of silly ****
did you ask this time ? If Oscar Hammerstein wrote a song about
Meyer Lansky eating John Wayne's hotdog would it be racist to
call the song an Oscar Meyer Weiner ? Such juvenile silliness
isn't worth the time it takes to read much less to respond.

I know there was nothing "racist" about my use of the phrase, and at
the end of the day, I don't really care what anyone else thinks.

Yeah, right.

--
Ken Fortenberry

On 11-Jun-2010, DaveS wrote:

hy don't you explain how using two demeaning black stereotypes,
the nerdy teenager and the violent black gangbanger, to describe
a thoughtful and intelligent black man who is neither isn't racist.

Fair enough. *I said nothing whatsoever about "violent" or
"gangbangers" of any
color. *You and Stevie (and anyone else who thought similarly) are
_WAY_ off.
blithering nonsense snipped

You're ridiculous. The only one who is WAY off is you and
you're so far off you're on a different planet.

No matter how much you want to argue otherwise, describing
a black man as "Urkel goes gangsta" is every bit as racist
as describing a black woman as "Aunt Jemima goes ho". On
this planet.

I wouldn't want to censor Usenet even if that were possible
but I do feel obligated to speak up in the face of racist
and offensive speech. A lot of what spews off your Mississippi
keyboard is precisely that, racist and offensive speech.

--
Ken Fortenberry

Amen.
Whatever our past, however constructed or reconstructed or un-
reconstructed, we are individually, as an American people we cannot
afford racist nonsense. A big chunk of the World would love to eat our
lunch. (and lots of the rest would love to come here.) Gratuitous,
divisive, public racist crap is a vice we can no longer afford.

While our dinosaurs still find refuge in the ****ponds of the last
century, thankfully, our military, our schools and most younger
Americans understand the necessity of curbing racism. We have made
some progress.

Dave
I am not much for prayer, but one I have always liked is this: God
bless the United States, our Union, our Constitution and Bill of
Rights, and give wisdom to our elected leaders. Amen

Racisnm is a tool usded to divide the people of this country as is religian
and drugs
"Religion is the opiate of the people"
Noone can complain iwhen they screw us over
(they - believe it or not is the oligarchy - families all over the globe
American Saudi, Italian, French etc)
They really run our show.

If something the fed gov't does to screw over people - other ethnic groups
are an easy scapegoat.

Remember!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There are screwed up toxic opeople of all races
Whites definitely included

And

Tthere are wonderful people of all races.
Color is not a factor in one's quality of life

and as Forty says - he feels that it is his honor bound duty to combat
racism wherever it rears its ugly head
I agree

You should see some of the outright racist and cruel ethnic cruel jokes and
statements on some of the ng's I belong to
rec.Boxing some of the most racist posts

Please think long and hard about where you are coming from and why you say
It may be ingrained
It may be truly a difficult chore to scrutinize your life to this point

Rdean
You are an intelligent man
Quite so
Please do not dismiss this or feel that you have to respond w a defensive
posture
You are certainly smart enough do this soul search
Fred

On Jun 11, 9:39*am, wrote:
On Fri, 11 Jun 2010 06:12:58 -0500, Ken Fortenberry





wrote:
wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
rdean wrote:
rw wrote:
rdean wrote:
I didn't ask that you explain it *TO ME* (or anyone in particular) - I asked
that you explain it. *But OK, explain *YOUR REASONING* for finding the phrase
"Urkel goes gangsta" racist.

You used two African American stereotypes ("Urkel" and "gangsta")

...and _I'm_ a racist...?

Oh yeah, you're a racist.

You may think your shtick is clever and funny but it's just
rewarmed, age-old racism couched in modern jargon. Sad.

Well, at Stevie had the courage to put his nonsense on the table...care to
explain *YOUR* reasoning for finding the phrase I used "racist"...?

Why don't you explain how using two demeaning black stereotypes,
the nerdy teenager and the violent black gangbanger, to describe
a thoughtful and intelligent black man who is neither isn't racist.

Fair enough. *I said nothing whatsoever about "violent" or "gangbangers" of any
color. *You and Stevie (and anyone else who thought similarly) are _WAY_ off.
First, while an "Urkel" is "stereotypical," the "stereotypical" meaning is more
of that of a smart geeky nerd with iffy physical coordination (or a savant-like
prowess in one area and none in most others - IIRC, with the original "Urkel,"
it was dancing as I vaguely remember a dance called "the Urkel," but ???),
generally sweet and well-meaning, but often unsuccessful with things that
required "common sense" rather than "book smarts," and certainly not "a tough
guy." *And while it obviously originated with a "black" character (played by a
black actor, on a sitcom about a black family, all played by black actors), it
has become a somewhat "colorblind" (albeit not completely) term, ala "geek,"
"nerd," etc. *And I'd suggest that the term "nerd," that you yourself use, is
just as stereotypically "white" (albeit, again, not completely) - IOW, if one
insists that "Urkel" is a "racial stereotype," so is "nerd." *And in any case,
it is unquestionably nothing more than typical guilty white liberal
paternalistic racism to insist that a term that originated via a black character
(played by a black actor in modern times) be "a racist stereotype," but hell,
even there, I've heard more "black people" call folks "a Kingfish" than I have
"white people" do so. *Simply put, YOU found "racism" simply because YOU see
Obama as "black" and are paternalistically racist and are on the lookout to make
"racism" exist where it does not. *Hell, I'm the one who has argued, and
believes, that Obama is as much "white" as he is "black" on a purely physical
level, and more "white" than "black" on a "personal history" level. *I'd suggest
that a true "racist," either black or white, would concentrate on one or the
other, depending on the point they were attempting to make.

Let me ask you this - would the substitution of the phrase "It was like Lewis
Skolnick goes John Wayne" be, in your mind, "racist?" *How about "Urkel goes
John Wayne?" *Or "Lewis Skolnick goes gangsta?" *

And as to "gangsta," if that's a stereotype at all, it is more of a _white_
stereotype, but really, it too is colorblind. *It's simply someone - well, for
example, during your and Stevie's little to-do a few years back, it could be
appropriately said that it was like two Urkels going gangsta...well, if Urkel
had spent a month eating deep-fried sticks of butter with chocolate sauce,
anyway...



That kind of crap may pass for funny with the folks you hang with
in Mississippi but among educated people it's unacceptable and has
been for a long, long time.

Well, considering the terms are only a relative few years old, they both gained
traction into the common lexicon on high school and college campuses and are in
moderately common usage (primarily by younger people), you're flat-assed wrong -
not only do "educated people" accept them, but they use them, and in neither
case has any feeling, positive or negative, possibly existed "for a long, long
time." *Oh, wait...did you mean "educated" as the self-applied stereotypical
codeword for "guilty white liberal paternalistic racists who presume that they
are 'educated'" and therefore, better than everyone else...?

HTH,
R

Idiot.

Liar.

Cracker.

g.

On Jun 11, 6:01*pm, "Fred" wrote:
On 11-Jun-2010, DaveS wrote:



...and as Forty says - he feels that it is his honor bound duty to combat
racism wherever it rears its ugly head

Yeah, but he's a known habitual liar.

I agree

Hm.....

g.
who has seen many an ugly head reared unnoticed.

On Fri, 11 Jun 2010 23:01:14 GMT, "Fred" wrote:


On 11-Jun-2010, DaveS wrote:

hy don't you explain how using two demeaning black stereotypes,
the nerdy teenager and the violent black gangbanger, to describe
a thoughtful and intelligent black man who is neither isn't racist.

Fair enough. *I said nothing whatsoever about "violent" or
"gangbangers" of any
color. *You and Stevie (and anyone else who thought similarly) are
_WAY_ off.
blithering nonsense snipped

You're ridiculous. The only one who is WAY off is you and
you're so far off you're on a different planet.

No matter how much you want to argue otherwise, describing
a black man as "Urkel goes gangsta" is every bit as racist
as describing a black woman as "Aunt Jemima goes ho". On
this planet.

I wouldn't want to censor Usenet even if that were possible
but I do feel obligated to speak up in the face of racist
and offensive speech. A lot of what spews off your Mississippi
keyboard is precisely that, racist and offensive speech.

--
Ken Fortenberry

Amen.
Whatever our past, however constructed or reconstructed or un-
reconstructed, we are individually, as an American people we cannot
afford racist nonsense. A big chunk of the World would love to eat our
lunch. (and lots of the rest would love to come here.) Gratuitous,
divisive, public racist crap is a vice we can no longer afford.

While our dinosaurs still find refuge in the ****ponds of the last
century, thankfully, our military, our schools and most younger
Americans understand the necessity of curbing racism. We have made
some progress.

Dave
I am not much for prayer, but one I have always liked is this: God
bless the United States, our Union, our Constitution and Bill of
Rights, and give wisdom to our elected leaders. Amen

Racisnm is a tool usded to divide the people of this country as is religian
and drugs
"Religion is the opiate of the people"
Noone can complain iwhen they screw us over
(they - believe it or not is the oligarchy - families all over the globe
American Saudi, Italian, French etc)
They really run our show.

If something the fed gov't does to screw over people - other ethnic groups
are an easy scapegoat.

Remember!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There are screwed up toxic opeople of all races
Whites definitely included

And

Tthere are wonderful people of all races.
Color is not a factor in one's quality of life

and as Forty says - he feels that it is his honor bound duty to combat
racism wherever it rears its ugly head
I agree

You should see some of the outright racist and cruel ethnic cruel jokes and
statements on some of the ng's I belong to
rec.Boxing some of the most racist posts

Please think long and hard about where you are coming from and why you say
It may be ingrained
It may be truly a difficult chore to scrutinize your life to this point

Rdean
You are an intelligent man
Quite so
Please do not dismiss this or feel that you have to respond w a defensive
posture
You are certainly smart enough do this soul search
Fred

Well, Fred, I appreciate the thought, I feel no need to respond "defensively,"
and I feel no need to do any "soul searching" over this. But if you're in such
a mood, here's something you might wish to do some soul-searching over -

It is 2010 and I did nothing more than use a comparison that many, including
Time magazine and a number of comedians, black, white, and Hispanic, have used.
And while it isn't exactly a "flattering" comparison, it isn't particularly
disparaging and moreover, it isn't "racial" other than the character happening
to be black and Obama happening to be bi-racial - IOW, the comparison does not
hinge upon the "blackness" of the character or Obama. Ken went so far as to say
that "describing a _black_ man as "Urkel goes gangsta" is every bit as racist
as describing a black woman as "Aunt Jemima goes ho"." (Emp. Add.) Anyone who
would say or agree with such a statement has a need for some soul-searching of
their own with regard to their own racism.

Some would label _any_ characterization that they see or perceive as unfavorable
of a man who happens to be bi-racial and they blindly support as "racism" if
that characterization is done by one they see or perceive as "white." They are
attempting to use "racism" as both a blind racially-motivated attack and a blind
racially-motivated defense. Moreover, they are doing so not in the defense of
their own race, but that of another race, and doing so in the guise of being
"anti-racist." Yet, they make no such defenses when their own race is similarly
slighted, The entire undergirding of that position is based solely upon not
only race, but paternalism. I'd suggest THAT is racism and in its most
insidious form.

HTH,
R

wrote:
...
Some would label _any_ characterization that they see or perceive as unfavorable
of a man who happens to be bi-racial and they blindly support as "racism" if
that characterization is done by one they see or perceive as "white." They are
attempting to use "racism" as both a blind racially-motivated attack and a blind
racially-motivated defense. Moreover, they are doing so not in the defense of
their own race, but that of another race, and doing so in the guise of being
"anti-racist." Yet, they make no such defenses when their own race is similarly
slighted, The entire undergirding of that position is based solely upon not
only race, but paternalism. I'd suggest THAT is racism and in its most
insidious form.

I find it comforting to know that you are there to defend
the white race against slights. How often does the white
race get slighted down there in Mississippi ?

--
Ken Fortenberry

On Jun 11, 8:57*am, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:
wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
Why don't you explain how using two demeaning black stereotypes,
the nerdy teenager and the violent black gangbanger, to describe
a thoughtful and intelligent black man who is neither isn't racist.

Fair enough. *I said nothing whatsoever about "violent" or "gangbangers" of any
color. *You and Stevie (and anyone else who thought similarly) are _WAY_ off.
blithering nonsense snipped

You're ridiculous. The only one who is WAY off is you and
you're so far off you're on a different planet.

No matter how much you want to argue otherwise, describing
a black man as "Urkel goes gangsta" is every bit as racist
as describing a black woman as "Aunt Jemima goes ho". On
this planet.

I wouldn't want to censor Usenet even if that were possible
but I do feel obligated to speak up in the face of racist
and offensive speech. A lot of what spews off your Mississippi
keyboard is precisely that, racist and offensive speech.

Actually, you seem to get stirred up only by what you see, or
interpret, as racist.

If you were truly nanny-agitated to condemn offensive speech, g would
keep you from doing anything else with your life.

oz

MajorOz wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
You're ridiculous. The only one who is WAY off is you and
you're so far off you're on a different planet.

No matter how much you want to argue otherwise, describing
a black man as "Urkel goes gangsta" is every bit as racist
as describing a black woman as "Aunt Jemima goes ho". On
this planet.

I wouldn't want to censor Usenet even if that were possible
but I do feel obligated to speak up in the face of racist
and offensive speech. A lot of what spews off your Mississippi
keyboard is precisely that, racist and offensive speech.

Actually, you seem to get stirred up only by what you see, or
interpret, as racist.

If you were truly nanny-agitated to condemn offensive speech, g would
keep you from doing anything else with your life.

By g I'm assuming you mean Wolfgang. Wolfie's commentary is indeed
oftentimes quite offensive but it's not racist. Likewise, your
anonymous chicken**** commentary is oftentimes so far to the stupid
side of right-wing nitwittery that it too is offensive but it's not
racist. Not overtly anyway. So you're right, it's only racist and
offensive speech which gets my panties in a twist, the merely
offensive is just roff being roff.

HTH

--
Ken Fortenberry

and, for 3 days, this 'debate' rages on. I'm sure the general populace of
the planet has been adequately alerted to RDean's racist agenda, and that
minds have been sufficiently changed on both sides. Now, let's move along,
nothing to see here, folks.

yeesh, as they say
Tom