Ot? .. digi-cam upgrade

On Fri, 18 Apr 2008 19:23:19 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 18 Apr 2008 16:59:06 -0700, rw
wrote:

wrote:

Man, the proprietary battery thing is, IME, a whole lot bigger thing
than a mere annoyance - obviously, YMDV, but I'd offer that if Larry is
planning on taking this thing down south, it might be a deal-breaker for
him - I'd stick with standard battery types (AA, AAA) - again, YMMV.

I thought it would be more of a problem than it is. Two fully charged
batteries (I carry three) are adequate for a week-long float trip in the
wilderness, taking hundreds of photos. Those lithium-ion batteries are
powerful and compact.

If you're somewhere that you can buy AA or AAA batteries, you're
probably somewhere that you can recharge your "special" batteries.

It's really a matter of priorities. My number one criterion is that the
camera be waterproof. I've ruined a couple of cameras by taking
unplanned dips. I especially don't want to be carrying a camera that
inhibits my already marginal wading skills.

My number two criterion is that it fit into a shirt pocket. Lithium-ion
batteries easily have the highest energy density, so they're the natural
choice for compactness.

I don't know of any generic-battery cameras that fit those criteria.
Maybe there's one. I don't know of it.

I'd think you'd be right as far as the smallest of the small ones, but
unless it has swung back to all "special" batteries, Canon, Olympus and
Nikon all had? smallish PnS's that used AAs. Another possible reason to
look at used cameras. And I'd agree that lith-ion AAs are the way to go
when possible. I didn't realize that the "special" batteries had gotten
to the point of hundreds of pictures per charge. My experience with
them was that they seemed to go when you at the most inopportune time,
but that is with cameras 2-4 years old.

If that is the case, I'd not worry about it, but take at least one extra
and make sure to take adaptors that might be needed to recharge, or, if
you're camping and/or spending lots of time outdoors, think about one of
the solar chargers.

TC,
R


BTW, I also dislike the lack of a range finder, but that's another story.


Sort of an update - I kinda searched, and it seems that there are a
large number of current digital cameras that take "standard" cell sizes
(ala AA, etc.), but are, generally, larger than the "special" battery
ones. That sorta makes sense, I suppose, in that a flat "pack" can be
used rather than 4 round cells, but if I were faced with a slightly
larger camera versus a "special" battery, I think I'd opt for the
"standard" cells - YMMV, of course.

And for the record, I admit somewhat of a bias against "special"
batteries due to personal experience in having issues with them - not
defective or anything, just trying to find replacements in areas that
replacements would seemingly be readily available - for example, trying
to locate a particular Canon battery, for a year or so old camera, in DT
Philly AND New Orleans. Finally had to go online - PITA for a friggin'
battery. I had, some time back, an Olympus that took AAs (and came with
a set of lith-ions, and a cigar lighter charger, to boot) - worse case,
pop into just about any store and pick up a set of batteries. It was
either a 4 or 5 MP (a 5050 or 8080Z, IIRC), and it wasn't all THAT big,
but it damned sure wasn't WP...or even WR...

TC,
R

On Fri, 18 Apr 2008 21:51:31 -0500, wrote:

And for the record, I admit somewhat of a bias against "special"
batteries due to personal experience in having issues with them - not
defective or anything, just trying to find replacements in areas that
replacements would seemingly be readily available - for example, trying
to locate a particular Canon battery, for a year or so old camera, in DT
Philly AND New Orleans. Finally had to go online - PITA for a friggin'
battery. I had, some time back, an Olympus that took AAs (and came with
a set of lith-ions, and a cigar lighter charger, to boot) - worse case,
pop into just about any store and pick up a set of batteries. It was
either a 4 or 5 MP (a 5050 or 8080Z, IIRC), and it wasn't all THAT big,
but it damned sure wasn't WP...or even WR...

My Olympus Stylus 810 comes with the lithium-ion battery with
recharger and a spare battery. Very small battery but lasts a loooong
time. I have always brought the spare battery with me on trips but
have yet to use it. They easily charge up over night.

Dave

On Sat, 19 Apr 2008 08:16:08 -0400, Dave LaCourse
wrote:

On Fri, 18 Apr 2008 21:51:31 -0500, wrote:

And for the record, I admit somewhat of a bias against "special"
batteries due to personal experience in having issues with them - not
defective or anything, just trying to find replacements in areas that
replacements would seemingly be readily available - for example, trying
to locate a particular Canon battery, for a year or so old camera, in DT
Philly AND New Orleans. Finally had to go online - PITA for a friggin'
battery. I had, some time back, an Olympus that took AAs (and came with
a set of lith-ions, and a cigar lighter charger, to boot) - worse case,
pop into just about any store and pick up a set of batteries. It was
either a 4 or 5 MP (a 5050 or 8080Z, IIRC), and it wasn't all THAT big,
but it damned sure wasn't WP...or even WR...

My Olympus Stylus 810 comes with the lithium-ion battery with
recharger and a spare battery. Very small battery but lasts a loooong
time. I have always brought the spare battery with me on trips but
have yet to use it. They easily charge up over night.

Well, this is my thing with "special" batteries - suppose you ain't got
a place to recharge it, overnight or otherwise. Apparently, they are
lasting longer than they used to, which is good, and certainly, such
would mitigate my desire to have "normal" cells, but I would still
choose "normal" cells over special batteries, all else being fairly
equal. Remember that you can get ni-cad or lith-ion AA/AAA/C/D cells,
and the recharging options are vast, from mains to solar and even wind.

TC,
R

Dave

wrote:

Well, this is my thing with "special" batteries - suppose you ain't got
a place to recharge it, overnight or otherwise. Apparently, they are
lasting longer than they used to, which is good, and certainly, such
would mitigate my desire to have "normal" cells, but I would still
choose "normal" cells over special batteries, all else being fairly
equal. Remember that you can get ni-cad or lith-ion AA/AAA/C/D cells,
and the recharging options are vast, from mains to solar and even wind.

Very bad advice.

If you use "standard" sized lithium-ion batteries in a camera designed
for "normal" batteries you'll fry your camera. Lithium-ion batteries
produce twice the voltage of alkaline batteries and three times the
voltage of NiMH batteries..

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

On Sat, 19 Apr 2008 09:24:29 -0500, wrote:

even wind.

Wind would suit you best. d'o)

On Sat, 19 Apr 2008 08:48:42 -0700, rw
wrote:

Very bad advice.

If you use "standard" sized lithium-ion batteries in a camera designed
for "normal" batteries you'll fry your camera. Lithium-ion batteries
produce twice the voltage of alkaline batteries and three times the
voltage of NiMH batteries..

I have yet to run out of battery power on my Stylus. There certainly
wasn't anywhere to charge it while in Russia. If I can take two or
three hundred pictures on one battery, I doubt I'll need any other,
but I usually travel with at least one spare (very small and light).

Dave

On Sat, 19 Apr 2008 08:48:42 -0700, rw
wrote:

wrote:

Well, this is my thing with "special" batteries - suppose you ain't got
a place to recharge it, overnight or otherwise. Apparently, they are
lasting longer than they used to, which is good, and certainly, such
would mitigate my desire to have "normal" cells, but I would still
choose "normal" cells over special batteries, all else being fairly
equal. Remember that you can get ni-cad or lith-ion AA/AAA/C/D cells,
and the recharging options are vast, from mains to solar and even wind.

Very bad advice.

Yeah, as I re-read it, it's worded dangerously, confusing the common
terms for "battery" with "cell" etc., but you can sub Lith-ion for AA,
just not _cell_ for _cell_ - it's battery for cell - see below.

If you use "standard" sized lithium-ion batteries in a camera designed
for "normal" batteries you'll fry your camera. Lithium-ion batteries
produce twice the voltage of alkaline batteries and three times the
voltage of NiMH batteries..

I'm not (just) talking about _batteries_ (or "batteries"), I'm talking
about cells - IOW, 1 lith-ion "unit" to replace 2 AA cells ("battery" in
common speech). However, I have AA (and AAA and D cell) sized NiMH and
NiCad "units" that are direct 1-for-1 replacements for "standard" AA, D,
etc. I also have a few _batteries_ that are lith-ion and take the
place of 2 (or 4) AA _cells_ - i use them in digital cameras, GPS/Nav
gear, etc. I have a backup nav setup whereby I can run my
GPS/Chartplotter. laptop, and a HH VHF via NiMH (or alkaline, NiMH, or
NiCad) trickled/topped off by solar or wind or via house batteries, for
example.

Here is the first link Google produced, and it appears to be a good one
(but I have nothing whatsoever to do with it, nor did I fully examine
it, and as such, I make suggestions either way as to doing business with
them):

http://www.steves-digicams.com/nimh_batteries.html

(scroll down for lith-ion info and replacements)

So, if one wishes to get non-"standard"/alkaline "batteries" for
something, make sure that you are getting the right power "unit" (and
charger) for the intended device. AFAIK, the NiMH and NiCad "AA", etc.
_sized_ units are 1-to-1 replacements for the "standard" alkaline
counterparts, but ??? - the packaging should clearly indicate such.

TC,
R

On Sat, 19 Apr 2008 09:24:29 -0500, wrote:

Well, this is my thing with "special" batteries - suppose you ain't got
a place to recharge it, overnight or otherwise.

My truck has an inverter. I can recharge my batteries while I'm driving you to
town to buy some AA's. ;-)
--
Charlie...
http://www.chocphoto.com

On Sat, 19 Apr 2008 18:49:46 -0400, Charlie Choc
wrote:

On Sat, 19 Apr 2008 09:24:29 -0500, wrote:

Well, this is my thing with "special" batteries - suppose you ain't got
a place to recharge it, overnight or otherwise.

My truck has an inverter. I can recharge my batteries while I'm driving you to
town to buy some AA's. ;-)

HOLY CRAP!! How do they charge in overweight baggage charges for a
truck?! Heck, even if you're like Juan Trippe, Jr. or something, it
seems a bit excessive to avoid a lil' larger camera...on this one, your
mileage has just GOTTA vary...

TC,
R