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#1
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Hi all
Anyone got any idea on making your own pike traces. It seems it is all out there to buy but has anyone done it and can they let me know the basic costs ( I can not browse my local angling store so you get in a position where you feel obliged to buy ). I did note the trebles seems expensive at nearly £5 a pair which seemed odd as a premade trace is only £2.75. So any gems of wisdom would be greatly appreciated please. The reason is my son wanted to have a go at pike fishing and he only fishes once every other year. Anyway to cut a long story short he hooked into 4. Lost the first one at the net, landed number 2 on a dead bait but only about 7 lbs so not massive. Number 3 was larger and snagged him up before he got control but number 4 was the real gem. As he had been snagged he had broken off above the float so I attached a plug I have had for longer than he has been alive, a plug I had no success with at all I will add. I used the plug to retrieve the bung and release the line to rot as I could not retrieve it but my son fancied having a go a plug fishing. I gave it a couple of good runs to show him how to do it and test the swim then went for a sit down and watch my feeder rod. Well no sooner had I hit the chair with my bum than he is shouting, seems first cast and he has one on and we land it. Jammy little sod was grinning like a Cheshire cat. So I am going to do some pike fishing now as I have to do something to shut the little sod up, a trait he gets from his mother I will add.VBG -- Gandalf |
#2
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In article , Gandalf
wrote: Anyone got any idea on making your own pike traces. It seems it is all out there to buy but has anyone done it and can they let me know the basic costs I never have trusted commercial pike traces. I'm still using a couple of bulk spools of monel I bought when I was about 15 ... I reckon the 14lb test will run out and have to be replaced within a decade but the 20lb spool should see me out. ( I can not browse my local angling store so you get in a position where you feel obliged to buy ). I hate that sort of store. Are there no others within reach? I did note the trebles seems expensive at nearly £5 a pair which seemed odd as a premade trace is only £2.75. It's *much* cheaper to buy hooks by the box - 1000 commercial long line hooks for under 50ukp I noticed when I was in a *commercial* (not yachty) chandler the other day. I have the remains of a 25 box of #2 trebles here with a 3.75 ukp price sticker still on it... While you're at it consider switching to single large circle hooks for live/deadbaiting - once I've finished the current boxes of trebles I don't think I'll be buying more for trace making (I'll carry on with trebles on lures though.) I'll be looking for 100's circles rsn - the chandler above had 1000 stainless 7/0 circle hooks for 75ukp but that's both a little large and too many for me atm - it suggests a guide of around 6-8ukp/100 for plain steel circles a couple of sizes smaller - and I don't use stainless hooks anywhere where lost hooks might endanger those who come after. If I lose it I want it to rust away. So any gems of wisdom would be greatly appreciated please. Gems? Not sure, this is what I do: I use solid monel. You might like to look out for soft 'knottable' wire - a chum swears by it but I don't like it for multi-hook rigs. With monel I make a haywire twist. Beware, cut monel has a chisel end and unless turned away shreds fingers. (view this in a fixed width fount) __ (__\\\\-\-\-\-\------- close open Make a loop, trapping hook eye, split ring, swivel or whatever is required. Make 4 close turns followed by 4 open turns - that's all you need. To make up a multi hook trace with eyed trebles just pass the wire once through the eye - at the waterside position the hook to suit the bait and then wrap the wire round the shank 4 times. (Eyeless trebles need whipping with fine wire, or kevlar and varnish.) For flyfishing you need a rigid hook connection so thread the wire through the eye of the hook, take it around the end of the weld and back through the eye going the other way, twist as before. Dress the fly after wiring. Do not let monel kink. (Other way to 'cut' monel - make single twist kink, pull hard, open kink, pull wire apart with bare hands. This leaves the other sort of nasty, sharp, sticking up, point.) Hth, cheerio, -- Fishing: http://www.fishing.casterbridge.net/ Writing: http://www.author.casterbridge.net/derek-moody/ uk.rec.fishing.game Badge Page: http://www.fishing.casterbridge.net/urfg/ |
#3
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Hi Derek,
Been looking at it and will make my own I think. I had yet another trip and a bag full of bream to 4.5 lbs but now I have the method down so well I can do it almost every time it is getting boring so I am going to try and get a few pike for a few weeks. I am sure there are a few good ones in there even though it a relatively small lake plus I do have access to larger lake renown for its large pike. Not heard of this large circle of hooks thing but it sounds a bit medieval if I take it literally, I have enough trouble not getting a treble hooked on things around me. Got caught in one hell of a storm Thursday as well, heavy rain and high winds for nearly an hour. All I could do was sit there and hold the brollie like a lance into the wind while it bent and the rain was driven under it into my face. I must be getting old as I hated that. -- Gandalf "Derek Moody" wrote in message ... In article , Gandalf wrote: Anyone got any idea on making your own pike traces. It seems it is all out there to buy but has anyone done it and can they let me know the basic costs I never have trusted commercial pike traces. I'm still using a couple of bulk spools of monel I bought when I was about 15 ... I reckon the 14lb test will run out and have to be replaced within a decade but the 20lb spool should see me out. ( I can not browse my local angling store so you get in a position where you feel obliged to buy ). I hate that sort of store. Are there no others within reach? I did note the trebles seems expensive at nearly £5 a pair which seemed odd as a premade trace is only £2.75. It's *much* cheaper to buy hooks by the box - 1000 commercial long line hooks for under 50ukp I noticed when I was in a *commercial* (not yachty) chandler the other day. I have the remains of a 25 box of #2 trebles here with a 3.75 ukp price sticker still on it... While you're at it consider switching to single large circle hooks for live/deadbaiting - once I've finished the current boxes of trebles I don't think I'll be buying more for trace making (I'll carry on with trebles on lures though.) I'll be looking for 100's circles rsn - the chandler above had 1000 stainless 7/0 circle hooks for 75ukp but that's both a little large and too many for me atm - it suggests a guide of around 6-8ukp/100 for plain steel circles a couple of sizes smaller - and I don't use stainless hooks anywhere where lost hooks might endanger those who come after. If I lose it I want it to rust away. So any gems of wisdom would be greatly appreciated please. Gems? Not sure, this is what I do: I use solid monel. You might like to look out for soft 'knottable' wire - a chum swears by it but I don't like it for multi-hook rigs. With monel I make a haywire twist. Beware, cut monel has a chisel end and unless turned away shreds fingers. (view this in a fixed width fount) __ (__\\\\-\-\-\-\------- close open Make a loop, trapping hook eye, split ring, swivel or whatever is required. Make 4 close turns followed by 4 open turns - that's all you need. To make up a multi hook trace with eyed trebles just pass the wire once through the eye - at the waterside position the hook to suit the bait and then wrap the wire round the shank 4 times. (Eyeless trebles need whipping with fine wire, or kevlar and varnish.) For flyfishing you need a rigid hook connection so thread the wire through the eye of the hook, take it around the end of the weld and back through the eye going the other way, twist as before. Dress the fly after wiring. Do not let monel kink. (Other way to 'cut' monel - make single twist kink, pull hard, open kink, pull wire apart with bare hands. This leaves the other sort of nasty, sharp, sticking up, point.) Hth, cheerio, -- Fishing: http://www.fishing.casterbridge.net/ Writing: http://www.author.casterbridge.net/derek-moody/ uk.rec.fishing.game Badge Page: http://www.fishing.casterbridge.net/urfg/ |
#4
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In message , Gandalf
writes Not heard of this large circle of hooks thing but it sounds a bit medieval if I take it literally, I have enough trouble not getting a treble hooked on things around me. IMO Circle hooks are the way to go for many (possibly most) bait fishing for predators. They're basically a large single with a pronounced circle shape to the bend - the point is aimed at the shank around 1/3 of the way between the eye and the start of the bend. I've been reading up on them for a while and am now trialling circles for Perch and will also be using them for Pike later in the winter. They greatly reduce deep hooking and ease hook removal - 95+% of fish are hooked in the scissors. One point to make is that you don't need to strike as such - just tighten/lift into the fish after a take. A conventional strike simply pulls the hook out of the fishes mouth, a much slower action is required to set the circles. They're not to easy to come by on this side of the pond, a few tackle shops stock a limited selection, try fly tying suppliers if you find them difficult to source or order from the US where they're much more commonly used. Will -- e-mail news dot will at lancre dot net '98 300Tdi Defender 110 CSW, 1/12th NB Sometimes PGP Fingerprint E089 1736 A023 9E5C AFA3 0B40 E5DC D80A 9E1F D521 Public key can be obtained from ldap://certserver.pgp.com |
#5
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Hi Will,
Many thanks for the heads up on that. I did a search myself and found one place that sells them mail order. Link below although I am sure you already know of it. http://www.reelfishing.co.uk/Sakuma_...oks.html#a1785 I totally missed the concept of hook shape and sort of went for the multiple hook idea after seeing something about it a few months ago,I have to admit I should have realised I had it wrong as Derek would never support the idea of multiple hooks. I also found a site explaining the science behind the circle hook, very interesting. -- Gandalf "Will Wilkinson" wrote in message ... In message , Gandalf writes Not heard of this large circle of hooks thing but it sounds a bit medieval if I take it literally, I have enough trouble not getting a treble hooked on things around me. IMO Circle hooks are the way to go for many (possibly most) bait fishing for predators. They're basically a large single with a pronounced circle shape to the bend - the point is aimed at the shank around 1/3 of the way between the eye and the start of the bend. I've been reading up on them for a while and am now trialling circles for Perch and will also be using them for Pike later in the winter. They greatly reduce deep hooking and ease hook removal - 95+% of fish are hooked in the scissors. One point to make is that you don't need to strike as such - just tighten/lift into the fish after a take. A conventional strike simply pulls the hook out of the fishes mouth, a much slower action is required to set the circles. They're not to easy to come by on this side of the pond, a few tackle shops stock a limited selection, try fly tying suppliers if you find them difficult to source or order from the US where they're much more commonly used. Will -- e-mail news dot will at lancre dot net '98 300Tdi Defender 110 CSW, 1/12th NB Sometimes PGP Fingerprint E089 1736 A023 9E5C AFA3 0B40 E5DC D80A 9E1F D521 Public key can be obtained from ldap://certserver.pgp.com |
#6
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In article , Gandalf
wrote: Hi Derek, Been looking at it and will make my own I think. I had yet another trip and a bag full of bream to 4.5 lbs but now I have the method down so well I can do it almost every time it is getting boring so I am going to try and get a few pike for a few weeks. I am sure there are a few good ones in there even though it a relatively small lake plus I do have access to larger lake renown for its large pike. Just back from a day on the lower Stour - which is in serious need of rain - 4 chub, best two 5 1/2 lb and 4 3/4 lb, half a dozen roach 8 -12 oz each, a few dace and minnows and a jack pike - but: *everything* took bread floatfished on #8 hooks tied direct to 4lb reel line... So belay everything said about wire traces for pike ;-) Not heard of this large circle of hooks thing but it sounds a bit medieval if I take it literally, I have enough trouble not getting a treble hooked on things around me. No, circles are a sort of extreme beak single hook. Cheerio, -- Fishing: http://www.fishing.casterbridge.net/ Writing: http://www.author.casterbridge.net/derek-moody/ uk.rec.fishing.game Badge Page: http://www.fishing.casterbridge.net/urfg/ |
#7
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In article , Gandalf
wrote: Hi Will, Many thanks for the heads up on that. I did a search myself and found one place that sells them mail order. Link below although I am sure you already know of it. http://www.reelfishing.co.uk/Sakuma_...oks.html#a1785 Hmmm. 2.50 odd ukp for ten, probably OK for experiments but I'd hope for a better price in bulk. I totally missed the concept of hook shape and sort of went for the multiple hook idea after seeing something about it a few months ago,I have to admit I should have realised I had it wrong as Derek would never support the idea of multiple hooks. Oh, I'm perfectly happy with multiple hooks where appropriate. Pennels, tandem lures, even nylon snap tackles for sal****er bassing in some circumstances 'though those too will probably go to circles. I also found a site explaining the science behind the circle hook, very interesting. A bit counter intuitive - it doesn't work with everything so good old hook shaped hooks will be around for a long time yet. Cheerio, -- Fishing: http://www.fishing.casterbridge.net/ Writing: http://www.author.casterbridge.net/derek-moody/ uk.rec.fishing.game Badge Page: http://www.fishing.casterbridge.net/urfg/ |
#8
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Going to get the trace kits tomorrow as I am off for a days dedicated pike
fishing on Thursday. I think I will use a smelt or herring rather than bread though.(;-) Basically I will be buying enough to make 10 traces and spending £15 and I will not need more than ten traces this winter as pikeing will be done every other week I think. I am going to travel light so I can move round giving it half an hour in each swim. I have seen several pike into double figures in about 5 swims so I will have. I have had trout on floating bread before, as a kid we used to float a bit of crust under the old road bridge in Cricklade. It used to hammer through and then float in an eddy on the other side where it would be taken by almost anything that happened to be there. Great fun trying to pull it back through a mass of water doing 60 miles an hour as well. A 3 lb chub seemed more like a 20 lb pike. -- Gandalf "Derek Moody" wrote in message ... In article , Gandalf wrote: Hi Derek, Been looking at it and will make my own I think. I had yet another trip and a bag full of bream to 4.5 lbs but now I have the method down so well I can do it almost every time it is getting boring so I am going to try and get a few pike for a few weeks. I am sure there are a few good ones in there even though it a relatively small lake plus I do have access to larger lake renown for its large pike. Just back from a day on the lower Stour - which is in serious need of rain - 4 chub, best two 5 1/2 lb and 4 3/4 lb, half a dozen roach 8 -12 oz each, a few dace and minnows and a jack pike - but: *everything* took bread floatfished on #8 hooks tied direct to 4lb reel line... So belay everything said about wire traces for pike ;-) Not heard of this large circle of hooks thing but it sounds a bit medieval if I take it literally, I have enough trouble not getting a treble hooked on things around me. No, circles are a sort of extreme beak single hook. Cheerio, -- Fishing: http://www.fishing.casterbridge.net/ Writing: http://www.author.casterbridge.net/derek-moody/ uk.rec.fishing.game Badge Page: http://www.fishing.casterbridge.net/urfg/ |
#9
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In article , Gandalf
wrote: Going to get the trace kits tomorrow as I am off for a days dedicated pike fishing on Thursday. I think I will use a smelt or herring rather than bread though.(;-) Basically I will be buying enough to make 10 traces and spending £15 and I will not need more than ten traces this winter as pikeing will be done every other week I think. Enough to prove your technique and even to experiment a little, good idea. One trace you can't buy is a weighted sink and draw special - a 1oz bomb on the end, a strong single about 1" uptrace from it, a couple of trebles spaced according to the size of bait and an added twist wire loop above that. The trace needs to be a little longer than the conventional snap. In this case trebles are still probably best but I may experiment one day. In use put the bomb in the mouth of your deadbait and stitch the mouth closed with the single, bring the trace pack along the bait impaling at strategic points and then tie the wire to the tail with the twist loop. Cast the bait and it dives head first, wait half a minute, draw back to the surface and let it dive again .. and again. The action mimics a disabled but living fish so unlike static deadbaits pike take hard and you can strike relatively quickly knowing the hooks are in the right place. Don't use this with herring or mackerel - too soft. Scad, sand smelt or a dead roach are tougher. I am going to travel light so I can move round giving it half an hour in each swim. I have seen several pike into double figures in about 5 swims so I will have. The best 'groundbait' for a pike is a keepnet full of silver fish... floatfished on #8 hooks tied direct to 4lb reel line... I have had trout on floating bread before, as a kid we used to float a bit Sorry, maybe I wasn't too clear: floatfished - ie. under a float, rather than floating on the surface (though floating crust is a favourite bait of mine) - in this case a small quill carrying 6bb - a group and one bb as a telltale. I don't thing anyone else had much, most were sitting at slow, deep swims and I had all mine in streamy water under 3' deep. of crust under the old road bridge in Cricklade. It used to hammer through and then float in an eddy on the other side where it would be taken by almost anything that happened to be there. Great fun trying to pull it back through a mass of water doing 60 miles an hour as well. A 3 lb chub seemed more like a 20 lb pike. g Cheerio, -- Fishing: http://www.fishing.casterbridge.net/ Writing: http://www.author.casterbridge.net/derek-moody/ uk.rec.fishing.game Badge Page: http://www.fishing.casterbridge.net/urfg/ |
#10
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" One trace you can't buy is a weighted sink and draw special "
Good timing Derek, I was looking at that last night as looking at all the lures and my past failures lure fishing I was thinking more along sink and draw with a dead bait. In the old days I used to tie the bait to the trace at point up the body. I did not do loads of pike fishing back then and did not give it or lure fishing much of chance going, instead, for static dead baits under a bung or on a lead. You could say I am a born again piking virgin really. With sink and draw I can do both I think just by letting the bait lie for awhile if my arms start to ache ( due to my damn illness ) so I got the best of both worlds but I will strike early it is taken on a rest period. I would rather loose a fish than deep hook it. I will let you know how it all goes on Thursday -- Gandalf "Derek Moody" wrote in message ... In article , Gandalf wrote: Going to get the trace kits tomorrow as I am off for a days dedicated pike fishing on Thursday. I think I will use a smelt or herring rather than bread though.(;-) Basically I will be buying enough to make 10 traces and spending £15 and I will not need more than ten traces this winter as pikeing will be done every other week I think. Enough to prove your technique and even to experiment a little, good idea. One trace you can't buy is a weighted sink and draw special - a 1oz bomb on the end, a strong single about 1" uptrace from it, a couple of trebles spaced according to the size of bait and an added twist wire loop above that. The trace needs to be a little longer than the conventional snap. In this case trebles are still probably best but I may experiment one day. |
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