Releasing a shark from a beach

On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 11:57:00 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote:

Tom wrote:
And what do you base that on? I'm assuming you've been to the range
with him? Where do you find the time with all the political posts you
make?

Two first-hand reports from friends who have gone trap shooting with him.

Sorry Harry - I'd have to see it to believe it. Based on his voting
record and firearms related comments he's made I think his only recent
association with firearms are photo ops.


Really? Well, I shoot trap myself, and I'm a pretty decent shot,
competitive, even, with a 12 gauge and a 20 gauge, and Kerry's positions
on guns are probably to the right of mine, since I would outlaw
possession of all concealable guns. Any ordinary citizen without a
police record and in good mental health should be able to own and use
ordinary shotguns and ordinary hunting rifles for their intended purposes.

And where in the Constitution does it limit gun ownership to
"ordinary" rifles and shotguns??

On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 11:57:00 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote:

Tom wrote:
And what do you base that on? I'm assuming you've been to the range
with him? Where do you find the time with all the political posts you
make?

Two first-hand reports from friends who have gone trap shooting with him.

Sorry Harry - I'd have to see it to believe it. Based on his voting
record and firearms related comments he's made I think his only recent
association with firearms are photo ops.


Really? Well, I shoot trap myself, and I'm a pretty decent shot,
competitive, even, with a 12 gauge and a 20 gauge, and Kerry's positions
on guns are probably to the right of mine, since I would outlaw
possession of all concealable guns. Any ordinary citizen without a
police record and in good mental health should be able to own and use
ordinary shotguns and ordinary hunting rifles for their intended purposes.

And where in the Constitution does it limit gun ownership to
"ordinary" rifles and shotguns??

What makes better shark bait....Democrats or Republicans? I can't
tell....BOTH smell pretty bad.

Perhaps they would both make better chum!

And WHY are we here reading about politics? I came here to read about
FISHING!!!

The Troller

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
VOTE BUSH wrote:
On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 10:51:15 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote:

Tom wrote:
D'oh. Kerry's a damned good shot with a shotgun. There's no way you can
shoot as well as he does without practice.

And what do you base that on? I'm assuming you've been to the range
with him? Where do you find the time with all the political posts you
make?

Two first-hand reports from friends who have gone trap shooting with him.


Yeah, sure. Hairy. You lying SoS!


Hey...it isn't my fault that you are as dumb as dirt and prefer to spend
life wallowing in ignorance and bile.


--
Today George W. Bush made a very compelling and thoughtful argument
for why he should not be reelected. In his own words, he told the
American people that "...a political candidate who jumps to conclusions
without knowing the facts is not a person you want as your
Commander-in-Chief."

What makes better shark bait....Democrats or Republicans? I can't
tell....BOTH smell pretty bad.

Perhaps they would both make better chum!

And WHY are we here reading about politics? I came here to read about
FISHING!!!

The Troller

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
VOTE BUSH wrote:
On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 10:51:15 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote:

Tom wrote:
D'oh. Kerry's a damned good shot with a shotgun. There's no way you can
shoot as well as he does without practice.

And what do you base that on? I'm assuming you've been to the range
with him? Where do you find the time with all the political posts you
make?

Two first-hand reports from friends who have gone trap shooting with him.


Yeah, sure. Hairy. You lying SoS!


Hey...it isn't my fault that you are as dumb as dirt and prefer to spend
life wallowing in ignorance and bile.


--
Today George W. Bush made a very compelling and thoughtful argument
for why he should not be reelected. In his own words, he told the
American people that "...a political candidate who jumps to conclusions
without knowing the facts is not a person you want as your
Commander-in-Chief."

On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 09:13:14 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote:

Rodney wrote:

I'm not going down that road in this newsgroup. I don't believe the
founding fathers envisioned that ordinary citizens would have or need
unrestricted access to all firearms.

WHat you or anyone else "believes they meant" means nothing,, they
actually explained what they meant, by all the other writings they did
about the 2 Amendment

YES THEY DID SAY UNRESTRICTED ACCESS TO ALL WEAPONS (arms are more than
just firearms)

Bull****. Further, the more you argue for unrestricted access to all
manner of firearms, the stronger the case you make for restricting them.
How many people are you planning on shooting, anyway?
So we should eliminate the first amendment because someone might yell
"fire" in a theater? Keep in mind that at the time this document was
written the personal firearms were the same as the military firearms -
in fact, many individuals even owned cannons.

troller11 wrote:

What makes better shark bait....Democrats or Republicans? I can't
tell....BOTH smell pretty bad.

Perhaps they would both make better chum!

And WHY are we here reading about politics? I came here to read
about FISHING!!!

The Troller


If you want to read about boats or any other subject for that matter
(expcept politics), go to alt.politics.

troller11 wrote:

What makes better shark bait....Democrats or Republicans? I can't
tell....BOTH smell pretty bad.

Perhaps they would both make better chum!

And WHY are we here reading about politics? I came here to read
about FISHING!!!

The Troller


If you want to read about boats or any other subject for that matter
(expcept politics), go to alt.politics.

Harry Krause wrote:


I seriously doubt the framers of the Constitution had any idea of how
firearms would evolve. Do you think they had MP-5's in mind? Do you
think the guy up the street should be carrying one around?


Well, the guy down my street does owns a MP5, and a couple of heavy and
light machine guns. Personally I like the MP5 most, that's the most
controllable machine gun ever made, except maybe the American 180.

FACT :
There are more legally owned machine guns (by citizens) in this country,
than there are machine guns issued to all of the US military.

I don't, in any way, feel threatened by my neighbor

Bet you didn't know that,, and how many times have you heard of one of
these gun owners blasting people away with their machine guns?? I can
answer that, ZERO, not one.

Since 1936 there has only been one murder committed by the legal owner
of a machine gun,, and that was a "policeman" killing his wife with his,
back in the 50's

People, like you, who fear the honest armed citizen, have nothing to
fear, it's the dishonest ones (the crooks) you need to fear

Sadly, in this gun-crazed country, more and more states allow concealed
carry. Personally, I think any non-law enforcement types carrying
concealed firearms should be forced to wear an orange ballcap so that
those of us who want to avoid armed gun-nuts can cross to the other side
of the street so we don't get caught in the crossfire when one of them
loses his temper.

HAHAHAHA , You don't have a clue,, did you know it is nearly unheard of
a CCW ever braking any law,, ever. Those GUN NUTS, keep you from getting
mugged, because the muggers don't know who is armed, and who is not.
When they know which, is which,, which do you think they would mug ?

Remember, I am NOT opposed in any way to responsible citizens owning and
using hunting/target shotguns and rifles appropriately. I own a few
shotguns myself. I am not anti-gun.

Sure you are,, any gun "you don't think others need", this is the way
they end up taking them all, the last to go are the single shot rifles
and shot guns,, ask the citizens of England, and Australia if you don't
think they will ever come after your "hunting" guns




--
Rodney Long,
Inventor of the Long Shot "WIGGLE" rig, SpecTastic Thread
Boomerang Fishing Pro. ,Stand Out Hooks ,Stand Out Lures,
Mojo's Rock Hopper & Rig Saver weights, Decoy Activator
and the EZKnot http://www.ezknot.com

Harry Krause wrote:


I seriously doubt the framers of the Constitution had any idea of how
firearms would evolve. Do you think they had MP-5's in mind? Do you
think the guy up the street should be carrying one around?


Well, the guy down my street does owns a MP5, and a couple of heavy and
light machine guns. Personally I like the MP5 most, that's the most
controllable machine gun ever made, except maybe the American 180.

FACT :
There are more legally owned machine guns (by citizens) in this country,
than there are machine guns issued to all of the US military.

I don't, in any way, feel threatened by my neighbor

Bet you didn't know that,, and how many times have you heard of one of
these gun owners blasting people away with their machine guns?? I can
answer that, ZERO, not one.

Since 1936 there has only been one murder committed by the legal owner
of a machine gun,, and that was a "policeman" killing his wife with his,
back in the 50's

People, like you, who fear the honest armed citizen, have nothing to
fear, it's the dishonest ones (the crooks) you need to fear

Sadly, in this gun-crazed country, more and more states allow concealed
carry. Personally, I think any non-law enforcement types carrying
concealed firearms should be forced to wear an orange ballcap so that
those of us who want to avoid armed gun-nuts can cross to the other side
of the street so we don't get caught in the crossfire when one of them
loses his temper.

HAHAHAHA , You don't have a clue,, did you know it is nearly unheard of
a CCW ever braking any law,, ever. Those GUN NUTS, keep you from getting
mugged, because the muggers don't know who is armed, and who is not.
When they know which, is which,, which do you think they would mug ?

Remember, I am NOT opposed in any way to responsible citizens owning and
using hunting/target shotguns and rifles appropriately. I own a few
shotguns myself. I am not anti-gun.

Sure you are,, any gun "you don't think others need", this is the way
they end up taking them all, the last to go are the single shot rifles
and shot guns,, ask the citizens of England, and Australia if you don't
think they will ever come after your "hunting" guns




--
Rodney Long,
Inventor of the Long Shot "WIGGLE" rig, SpecTastic Thread
Boomerang Fishing Pro. ,Stand Out Hooks ,Stand Out Lures,
Mojo's Rock Hopper & Rig Saver weights, Decoy Activator
and the EZKnot http://www.ezknot.com

On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 10:18:23 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote:
First - let me apologize to the group for letting Harry drag me into
this discussion.

People typically don't yell "Fire" in a crowded theater. If you yell
"fire" in a crowded theater, and it is a false alarm, and someone is
injured, you are likely to be arrested.

People typically don't shoot other people - if you do you are likely
to be arrested. The media is quick to let you know about every
shooting (kinda like every small plane crash) but did you know that
almost twice as many people are killed by drunk drivers each year than
are killed with firearms? Did you know that only a small fraction of
1% of the firearms in this country are used to commit a crime? Are you
aware that only 12% of the violent crimes in this country are
committed with a firearm?


Keep in mind that at the time this document was
written the personal firearms were the same as the military firearms -
in fact, many individuals even owned cannons.

I seriously doubt the framers of the Constitution had any idea of how
firearms would evolve. Do you think they had MP-5's in mind? Do you
think the guy up the street should be carrying one around?
I seriously doubt they had any idea of how many things would evolve.
Do you think they expected free speech to allow some of the filth we
now hear on radio and tv? Do you think they dreamed that improper
search would be used to allow criminals to walk because evidence was
found unexpectedly? And no - I don't mind the guy up the street having
a MP-5 as long as he uses it responsibly - do you think it will kill
you any deader than an "ordinary" shotgun or hunting rifle?

Sadly, in this gun-crazed country, more and more states allow concealed
carry. Personally, I think any non-law enforcement types carrying
concealed firearms should be forced to wear an orange ballcap so that
those of us who want to avoid armed gun-nuts can cross to the other side
of the street so we don't get caught in the crossfire when one of them
loses his temper.
Actually, you probably pass a great deal of "gun-nuts" daily - how
many times have you been caught in a crossfire? How could you
recognize them - most are normal everyday people with families and
jobs. Would you like to give us some figures on how many shootouts
have occurred when a CCL holder lost his temper? CCL holders are among
the most law abiding citizens in the country. To get my CCL I had to
submit to a FBI and state background check. Not only could I not have
a record but all property taxes must be current, all child support
must be current there can be no restraining orders or charges of
spousal abuse etc. In other words, you better be squeaky clean if you
want a CCL.

Remember, I am NOT opposed in any way to responsible citizens owning and
using hunting/target shotguns and rifles appropriately. I own a few
shotguns myself. I am not anti-gun.

BS - you're not anti-gun like John Kerry isn't anti-gun. Virtually
every comment you've made is anti-gun. You would eliminate all
handguns, you don't approve of CCLs - you don't like anything other
than "ordinary" shotguns and "ordinary" hunting rifles.You've also not
offered any reasoning other than emotion for you anti-gun stance. You
don't like handguns so we should ban them. You don't like MP-5s so we
should ban them when there is no rational justification for doing so.