OT GOP Purge

On Apr 21, 3:29*am, DaveS wrote:

Jebus man, if its half as bad back there as you say it is, *

Actually, it's a lot worse everywhere than I have suggested thus far.

there is still that thing that Horace Greeley said.

Horace didn't understand global atmospheric dynamics. We live in the
North Westerlies. The best part of the west (roughly everything
beyond the latitude of St. Paul), the only thing of enduring value, is
steadily moving eastward into the Mississippi watershed.....and thence
into the Gulf of Mexico, where it does no one any good at all.

*Did you get my snailmail address per the seeds via Email?

Yep. Planning to ship tomorrow.

giles

On Apr 21, 6:03*pm, Giles wrote:

*Did you get my snailmail address per the seeds via Email?

Yep. *Planning to ship tomorrow.

giles

Thanks. Look forward to getting them into the soil and getting some
ignition.

Per the runoff/soil in the streams/Gulf bit.
I am more and more thinking that No-tillage practices offer the
possibility of significantly reducing soil loss and fossil fuel
consumption in many different soil types and geographies. Over a few
years no-till practices can also reduce the use of pest and herbicides
for some crops. The benefits to fish could be substantial in areas
where ag runoff is a major limiting factor.

I suspect there are many folks like myself who have or have friends
who have smaller ag parcels that they lease out. No-till wheat has now
replaced heavily irrigated alfalfa on my little parcel. Favoring
leasing farmers who can do no-till is a way to keep land in ag, AND
lessen the impact on nearby streams. And the cost advantages just
might keep more family farmers in the business. Lest specialized
equipment needed for no-till be a barrier, some Farm Bureau operations
now have no-till capable equipment in their contract services
programs.

Here are two videos that tell some of the story. The first is about no-
till in your Corn/soybean region. The second is a bit of the July '09
field tour of no-till wheat farms in the Spokane River drainage.

http://cornandsoybeandigest.com/corn...nsider-notill/

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kjd6fMun-rc

Dave

On Apr 21, 6:03*pm, Giles wrote:

*Did you get my snailmail address per the seeds via Email?

Yep. *Planning to ship tomorrow.

giles

Thanks. Look forward to getting them into the soil and getting some
ignition.

Per the runoff/soil in the streams/Gulf bit.
I am more and more thinking that No-tillage practices offer the
possibility of significantly reducing soil loss and fossil fuel
consumption in many different soil types and geographies. Over a few
years no-till practices can also reduce the use of pest and
herbicides
for some crops. The benefits to fish could be substantial in areas
where ag runoff is a major limiting factor.


I suspect there are many folks like myself who have or have friends
who have smaller ag parcels that they lease out. No-till wheat has
now
replaced heavily irrigated alfalfa on my little parcel. Favoring
leasing farmers who can do no-till is a way to keep land in ag, AND
lessen the impact on nearby streams. And the cost advantages just
might keep more family farmers in the business. Lest specialized
equipment needed for no-till be a barrier, some Farm Bureau
operations
now have no-till capable equipment in their contract services
programs.


Here are two videos that tell some of the story. The first is about
no-
till in your Corn/soybean region. The second is a bit of the July '09
field tour of no-till wheat farms in the Spokane River drainage.


http://cornandsoybeandigest.com/corn...ge/1101-farmer...

Shepherd's Grain Field Tour - July 2009

3 min 38 sec - Sep 21, 2009 -

Shepherds Grain's 33 farmer-owners grow wheat on 65000 acres in a
geographic area of Washington, Oregon and Idaho known as the
Columbia ...
www.youtube.com/watch



Dave

On Apr 21, 6:03*pm, Giles wrote:
*Did you get my snailmail address per the seeds via Email?

Yep. *Planning to ship tomorrow.

giles

Thanks. Look forward to getting them into the soil and getting some
ignition.

Per the runoff/soil in the streams/Gulf bit.
I am more and more thinking that No-tillage practices offer the
possibility of significantly reducing soil loss and fossil fuel
consumption in many different soil types and geographies. Over a few
years no-till practices can also reduce the use of pest and
herbicides
for some crops. The benefits to fish could be substantial in areas
where ag runoff is a major limiting factor.


I suspect there are many folks like myself who have or have friends
who have smaller ag parcels that they lease out. No-till wheat has
now
replaced heavily irrigated alfalfa on my little parcel. Favoring
leasing farmers who can do no-till is a way to keep land in ag, AND
lessen the impact on nearby streams. And the cost advantages just
might keep more family farmers in the business. Lest specialized
equipment needed for no-till be a barrier, some Farm Bureau
operations
now have no-till capable equipment in their contract services
programs.


Here are two videos that tell some of the story. The first is about
no-
till in your Corn/soybean region. The second is a bit of the July '09
field tour of no-till wheat farms in the Spokane River drainage.


http://cornandsoybeandigest.com/corn...ge/1101-farmer...


www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kjd6fMun-rc -

Dave

On Apr 21, 6:03*pm, Giles wrote:
On Apr 21, 3:29*am, DaveS wrote:

Jebus man, if its half as bad back there as you say it is, *

Actually, it's a lot worse everywhere than I have suggested thus far.

there is still that thing that Horace Greeley said.

Horace didn't understand global atmospheric dynamics. *We live in the
North Westerlies. *The best part of the west (roughly everything
beyond the latitude of St. Paul), the only thing of enduring value, is
steadily moving eastward into the Mississippi watershed.....and thence
into the Gulf of Mexico, where it does no one any good at all.

*Did you get my snailmail address per the seeds via Email?

Yep. *Planning to ship tomorrow.

giles

Thanks. Look forward to getting them into the soil and getting some
ignition.

Per the runoff/soil in the streams/Gulf bit.
I am more and more thinking that No-tillage practices offer the
possibility of significantly reducing soil loss and fossil fuel
consumption in many different soil types and geographies. Over a few
years no-till practices can also reduce the use of pest and
herbicides for some crops. The benefits to fish could be substantial
in areas
where ag runoff is a major limiting factor.


I suspect there are many folks like myself who have or have friends
who have smaller ag parcels that they lease out. No-till wheat has
now replaced heavily irrigated alfalfa on my little parcel. Favoring
leasing farmers who can do no-till is a way to keep land in ag, AND
lessen the impact on nearby streams. And the cost advantages just
might keep more family farmers in the business. Lest specialized
equipment needed for no-till be a barrier, some Farm Bureau
operations now have no-till capable equipment in their contract
services
programs.


Here are two videos that tell some of the story. The first is about
no-
till in your Corn/soybean region. The second is a bit of the July '09
field tour of no-till wheat farms in the Spokane River drainage.


Thanks. Look forward to getting them into the soil and getting some
ignition.

Per the runoff/soil in the streams/Gulf bit.
I am more and more thinking that No-tillage practices offer the
possibility of significantly reducing soil loss and fossil fuel
consumption in many different soil types and geographies. Over a few
years no-till practices can also reduce the use of pest and
herbicides
for some crops. The benefits to fish could be substantial in areas
where ag runoff is a major limiting factor.


I suspect there are many folks like myself who have or have friends
who have smaller ag parcels that they lease out. No-till wheat has
now
replaced heavily irrigated alfalfa on my little parcel. Favoring
leasing farmers who can do no-till is a way to keep land in ag, AND
lessen the impact on nearby streams. And the cost advantages just
might keep more family farmers in the business. Lest specialized
equipment needed for no-till be a barrier, some Farm Bureau
operations now have no-till capable equipment in their contract
services
programs.


Here are two videos that tell some of the story. The first is about
no- till in your Corn/soybean region.

http://cornandsoybeandigest.com/corn...nsider-notill/

The second is a bit of the July '09 field tour of no-till wheat farms
in the Spokane River drainage. I could not link it but it is well
worth seeing.

It is on Youtube, listed as Shepard's Grain Field Tour- July 2009



Dave

On Apr 21, 6:03*pm, Giles wrote:
On Apr 21, 3:29*am, DaveS wrote:

Jebus man, if its half as bad back there as you say it is, *

Actually, it's a lot worse everywhere than I have suggested thus far.

there is still that thing that Horace Greeley said.

Horace didn't understand global atmospheric dynamics. *We live in the
North Westerlies. *The best part of the west (roughly everything
beyond the latitude of St. Paul), the only thing of enduring value, is
steadily moving eastward into the Mississippi watershed.....and thence
into the Gulf of Mexico, where it does no one any good at all.

*Did you get my snailmail address per the seeds via Email?

Yep. *Planning to ship tomorrow.

giles

Thanks. Look forward to getting them into the soil and getting some
ignition.


Per the runoff/soil in the streams/Gulf bit.
I am more and more thinking that No-tillage practices offer the
possibility of significantly reducing soil loss and fossil fuel
consumption in many different soil types and geographies. Over a few
years no-till practices can also reduce the use of pest and
herbicides
for some crops. The benefits to fish could be substantial in areas
where ag runoff is a major limiting factor.


I suspect there are many folks like myself who have or have friends
who have smaller ag parcels that they lease out. No-till wheat has
now
replaced heavily irrigated alfalfa on my little parcel. Favoring
leasing farmers who can do no-till is a way to keep land in ag, AND
lessen the impact on nearby streams. And the cost advantages just
might keep more family farmers in the business. Lest specialized
equipment needed for no-till be a barrier, some Farm Bureau
operations now have no-till capable equipment in their contract
services
programs.


Here are two videos that tell some of the story. The first is about
no- till in your Corn/soybean region.


http://cornandsoybeandigest.com/corn...ge/1101-farmer...


The second is a bit of the July '09 field tour of no-till wheat farms
in the Spokane River drainage. I could not link it but it is well
worth seeing.


It is on Youtube, listed as Shepard's Grain Field Tour- July 2009


Dave

On Apr 22, 2:07*pm, DaveS wrote:
On Apr 21, 6:03*pm, Giles wrote:



*Did you get my snailmail address per the seeds via Email?

Yep. *Planning to ship tomorrow.

giles

Thanks. Look forward to getting them into the soil and getting some
ignition.

See new thread, "Chestnuts revisited."

Per the runoff/soil in the streams/Gulf bit.
I am more and more thinking that No-tillage practices offer the
possibility of significantly reducing soil loss and fossil fuel
consumption in many different soil types and geographies. Over a few
years no-till practices can also reduce the use of pest and
herbicides
for some crops. The benefits to fish could be substantial in areas
where ag runoff is a major limiting factor.

I suspect there are many folks like myself who have or have friends
who have smaller ag parcels that they lease out. No-till wheat has
now
replaced heavily irrigated alfalfa on my little parcel. *Favoring
leasing farmers who can do no-till is a way to keep land in ag, AND
lessen the impact on nearby streams. And the cost advantages just
might keep more family farmers in the business. Lest specialized
equipment needed for no-till be a barrier, some Farm Bureau
operations now have no-till capable equipment in their contract
services
programs.

Here are two videos that tell some of the story. The first is about
no- till in your Corn/soybean region.

http://cornandsoybeandigest.com/corn...ge/1101-farmer...

The second is a bit of the July '09 field tour of no-till wheat farms
in the Spokane River drainage. I could not link it but it is well
worth seeing.

It is on Youtube, listed as Shepard's Grain Field Tour- July 2009

Dave

The first link produced an error message. The "Shepard's Grain Field
Tour- July 2009" on Youtube is a nice enough amateur sound bite, but
little more.

At any rate, no-till farming is certainly a much belated and very
small step in the right direction (65,000 acres is roughly a ten mile
square......how big is Iowa or Kansas or Nebraska or South Dakota or
North Dakota or Indiana or Illinois or Alberta or Saskatchewan...?)*
but none of this speaks to the subject under discussion.
Remember?.....the nobility of farmers? In fact, farmers still remain
the most biologically destructive force unleashed on this planet since
the last mass extinction that excites the interest of geologists.

giles
*the sahara, the negev, the kalahari, the gobi, the altacama, etc.,
etc.

On Apr 23, 2:56*pm, Giles wrote:
On Apr 22, 2:07*pm, DaveS wrote:

On Apr 21, 6:03*pm, Giles wrote:

*Did you get my snailmail address per the seeds via Email?

Yep. *Planning to ship tomorrow.

giles

Thanks. Look forward to getting them into the soil and getting some
ignition.

See new thread, "Chestnuts revisited."





Per the runoff/soil in the streams/Gulf bit.
I am more and more thinking that No-tillage practices offer the
possibility of significantly reducing soil loss and fossil fuel
consumption in many different soil types and geographies. Over a few
years no-till practices can also reduce the use of pest and
herbicides
for some crops. The benefits to fish could be substantial in areas
where ag runoff is a major limiting factor.

I suspect there are many folks like myself who have or have friends
who have smaller ag parcels that they lease out. No-till wheat has
now
replaced heavily irrigated alfalfa on my little parcel. *Favoring
leasing farmers who can do no-till is a way to keep land in ag, AND
lessen the impact on nearby streams. And the cost advantages just
might keep more family farmers in the business. Lest specialized
equipment needed for no-till be a barrier, some Farm Bureau
operations now have no-till capable equipment in their contract
services
programs.

Here are two videos that tell some of the story. The first is about
no- till in your Corn/soybean region.

http://cornandsoybeandigest.com/corn...ge/1101-farmer...

The second is a bit of the July '09 field tour of no-till wheat farms
in the Spokane River drainage. I could not link it but it is well
worth seeing.

It is on Youtube, listed as Shepard's Grain Field Tour- July 2009

Dave

The first link produced an error message. *The "Shepard's Grain Field
Tour- July 2009" on Youtube is a nice enough amateur sound bite, but
little more.

At any rate, no-till farming is certainly a much belated and very
small step in the right direction (65,000 acres is roughly a ten mile
square......how big is Iowa or Kansas or Nebraska or South Dakota or
North Dakota or Indiana or Illinois or Alberta or Saskatchewan...?)*
but none of this speaks to the subject under discussion.
Remember?.....the nobility of farmers? *In fact, farmers still remain
the most biologically destructive force unleashed on this planet since
the last mass extinction that excites the interest of geologists.

giles
*the sahara, the negev, the kalahari, the gobi, the altacama, etc.,
etc.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The 65k acres figure is only for the 35 or so farmers in the
Washington/Oregon Shepard's grain flour coop. World wide the figure is
up around 100 million hectares. Its widest adoption has been in the
US, Canada, Brazil, Australia and So. Africa.

A major negative of no-till has been the need for as much or more
herbicide, unless the farmers be really diligent with crop rotations
and other more eco friendly practices. The distortions of US alcohol/
corn policies and things like differential soil warming effects of no-
till vs conventional plowing have helped slow adoption in the Northern
US corn/soybean belt. But lots of work by the land grant schools and
outfits like the Rodale Institute etc are chipping away at the
problems. Right now the big-time advantage of no-till vs traditional-
till methods for carbon sequestration is getting lots of attention, to
the extent that some are saying that maxing no-till could be the near-
term quick fix we need to get a bite and some breathing room on
climate change. And I think that is the reasoning behind the current
push to figure out how to reduce the herbicide factor in no-till so we
don't create another problem as we address the sequestration bit.

As to the nobility stuff and the farmers-are-to-blame stuff. . . .
Arguing that stuff could go on as long as that old Roffian thread on
catch and release.

1. What I see in this no-till business is that no-till works better
for rivers, holding soil and water for slower release. Consequently
fishers should consider promoting it particularly in "challenged"
watersheds.

2. I went no-till on my small parcel. Consequently I have skin in the
game so to speak. It is a part of my plan to further cool 1/2 mile of
trout river. So I am interested and want other small parcel owners to
consider no-till and other conservation ag alternatives.

3.Existing No-till technology looks like it has even more potential
for addressing carbon sequestration issues. And it looks like promoing
development of no-till/low till technologies for things like paddy
rice and some of the subsistence crops in the tropics that depend on
slash and burn could help make small farmers in Africa and India more
competitive.

Dave

On Apr 25, 2:27*pm, DaveS wrote:
On Apr 23, 2:56*pm, Giles wrote:





On Apr 22, 2:07*pm, DaveS wrote:

On Apr 21, 6:03*pm, Giles wrote:

*Did you get my snailmail address per the seeds via Email?

Yep. *Planning to ship tomorrow.

giles

Thanks. Look forward to getting them into the soil and getting some
ignition.

See new thread, "Chestnuts revisited."

Per the runoff/soil in the streams/Gulf bit.
I am more and more thinking that No-tillage practices offer the
possibility of significantly reducing soil loss and fossil fuel
consumption in many different soil types and geographies. Over a few
years no-till practices can also reduce the use of pest and
herbicides
for some crops. The benefits to fish could be substantial in areas
where ag runoff is a major limiting factor.

I suspect there are many folks like myself who have or have friends
who have smaller ag parcels that they lease out. No-till wheat has
now
replaced heavily irrigated alfalfa on my little parcel. *Favoring
leasing farmers who can do no-till is a way to keep land in ag, AND
lessen the impact on nearby streams. And the cost advantages just
might keep more family farmers in the business. Lest specialized
equipment needed for no-till be a barrier, some Farm Bureau
operations now have no-till capable equipment in their contract
services
programs.

Here are two videos that tell some of the story. The first is about
no- till in your Corn/soybean region.

http://cornandsoybeandigest.com/corn...ge/1101-farmer....

The second is a bit of the July '09 field tour of no-till wheat farms
in the Spokane River drainage. I could not link it but it is well
worth seeing.

It is on Youtube, listed as Shepard's Grain Field Tour- July 2009

Dave

The first link produced an error message. *The "Shepard's Grain Field
Tour- July 2009" on Youtube is a nice enough amateur sound bite, but
little more.

At any rate, no-till farming is certainly a much belated and very
small step in the right direction (65,000 acres is roughly a ten mile
square......how big is Iowa or Kansas or Nebraska or South Dakota or
North Dakota or Indiana or Illinois or Alberta or Saskatchewan...?)*
but none of this speaks to the subject under discussion.
Remember?.....the nobility of farmers? *In fact, farmers still remain
the most biologically destructive force unleashed on this planet since
the last mass extinction that excites the interest of geologists.

giles
*the sahara, the negev, the kalahari, the gobi, the altacama, etc.,
etc.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The 65k acres figure is only for the 35 or so farmers in the
Washington/Oregon Shepard's grain flour coop. World wide the figure is
up around 100 million hectares.

100 million hectares is equal to roughly 247,105,381.47 acres or
386,100.61 square miles. I read somewhere recently that tropical
rainforest is currently being denuded at a rate equal to the area of
Maryland.....each day. Maryland is a small state, about 12,407 square
miles. So, it takes about 31.12 days to lose 386,100.61 square
miles, or 100 million hectares of tropical forest. And who is doing
all this cutting and burning and denuding? Well, I guess it ain't 35
or so farmers in the Washington/Oregon Shepard's grain flour coop.

Its widest adoption has been in the
US, Canada, Brazil, Australia and So. Africa.

Interesting, I suppose, assuming that it means something or somehow
bears on something that does.

A major negative of no-till has been the need for as much or more
herbicide, unless the farmers be really diligent with crop rotations
and other more eco friendly practices. The distortions of US alcohol/
corn policies and things like differential soil warming effects of no-
till vs conventional plowing have helped slow adoption in the Northern
US corn/soybean belt. But lots of work by the land grant schools and
outfits like the Rodale Institute etc are chipping away at the
problems. Right now the big-time advantage of no-till vs traditional-
till methods for carbon sequestration is getting lots of attention, to
the extent that some are saying that maxing no-till could be the near-
term quick fix we need to get a bite and some breathing room on
climate change. And I think that is the reasoning behind the current
push to figure out how to reduce the herbicide factor in no-till so we
don't create another problem as we address the sequestration bit.

Also interesting enough.....with the same qualifications.....but it
also doesn't speak to the issue at hand which, to the best of my
recollection, was the nobility of farmers.

As to the nobility stuff and the farmers-are-to-blame stuff. . . .
Arguing that stuff could go on as long as that old Roffian thread on
catch and release.

Yes it could. They have that much in common. The difference is that
catch and release vs. catch and kill is a complex issue worthy of a
great deal more thoughtful consideration and discussion than it will
ever get here, while the unconscionable destructiveness of
agricultural practices, past, present, and for the foreseeable future,
is simply a fact. And I happen to believe that one has to look
awfully hard and reason damned poorly to find a good working
definition of nobility in any of that.

Moreover, if one isn't prepared to rally a rousing defense of the
nobility of farmers, why does one broach the matter? I mean, why one
would surrender at the first salvo is easy enough to understand, but
why does one invite it?

1. What I see in this no-till business is that no-till works better
for rivers, holding soil and water for slower release. Consequently
fishers should consider promoting it particularly in "challenged"
watersheds.

2. I went no-till on my small parcel. Consequently I have skin in the
game so to speak. It is a part of my plan to further cool 1/2 mile of
trout river. So I am interested and want other small parcel owners to
consider no-till and other conservation ag alternatives.

3.Existing No-till technology looks like it has even more potential
for addressing carbon sequestration issues. And it looks like promoing
development of no-till/low till technologies for things like paddy
rice and some of the subsistence crops in the tropics that depend on
slash and burn could help make small farmers in Africa and India more
competitive.

Looks to me like a good start on an argument in favor of no-till
farming, What say you start up a thread on that subject and let's see
where it goes?

giles