ff in Cuba

On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 11:40:50 -0800 (PST), DaveS
wrote:

It must be some comfort to waddle in ignorance, repeat old slogans and
avoid first person accounts of people on the scene. Of course if that
fails you can always declare anyone anti-Semitic who actually reads
the Israeli papers, looks at the video that is mostly blocked in the
U.S., etc.

When *your* man, Obama, visited the spot during his campaign, he said
that if he lived withing the range of Hamas' rockets/motors, that he
(Obama) would react to save the lives of his family. What is so
different between Obama's family and the Jewish families living within
range of these weapons. Once again, Hamas broke the cease fire, not
Israel. Your slip is showing.

As to where I live, its Bainbridge, not Whidbey Island, and "little
cottage(s)" is not a description that fits the old rambling farmhouse
I live in.

Cottage, smottage, carriage house, farmhourse, whateverthe****, I
could only hope that Hamas would target your neiborhood be it
Bainbridge, Whidbey, or wherever.

Funny thing about trying to starve a people into rejecting the Hamas
government they elected, in an election the U.S. supported: before
they die, they fight back with whatever they can, be it homemade
rockets, rocks, etc..

They aren't fighting back. They are terrorists. They should be taken
out and let the Palestinians at peace with the Jews. Hamas is Iran.
Oh, how I wish Iran had some Hamas in Canada across the border from
you. It would be so poetic if the Gread Snedeker, the Peace Loving
Liberal, the Nevile Chamberlain of the West was bombed by Hamas
terrorists. Oh, if only...............

Dave, RWC

On Dec 30, 3:32*pm, Dave LaCourse wrote:
They aren't fighting back. *They are terrorists. *

What I don't know about the I/P conflict is a lot; but I do know that
it has zero chance at a peaceful resolution so long as folks (not you
personally) continue to see things as black and white, good and bad.
The truth is, there is a lot of gray in between; but centuries of
division and hatred obscure rational assessment by proponents of both
sides.

When Hamas sends rockets into civilian, residential neighborhoods with
no regard for innocent lives, that's terrorism; but it's no less
terrorism when Israel does it with war planes. The indiscriminate
killing of civilians for political effect is terrorism, pure and
simple, regardless if it's a handful of extremists or an established
government that we support.

What I see from way over here in my (relatively) safe, comfortable
life are two sides so ****ed up by centuries of racial hatred and
animosity that the extremists can too easily sway enough of their
respective populaces into continuing the insanity for at least another
generation.

If Israel wants to take out a Hamas leader, that's arguably a military
decision; and I'm in no position to object, but if they do it by
destroying the building he lives in along with a few innocent
families, well that's something I want my government to have no hand
in or support for.

Joe F.

On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 13:10:19 -0800 (PST), rb608
wrote:

When Hamas sends rockets into civilian, residential neighborhoods with
no regard for innocent lives, that's terrorism; but it's no less
terrorism when Israel does it with war planes. The indiscriminate
killing of civilians for political effect is terrorism, pure and
simple, regardless if it's a handful of extremists or an established
government that we support.

Joe, if the Palestinian people allow Hamas to put rocket
launchers/pads in their front yard, then they are part of it and
should expect bad things to happen. The Jews can not stand by and let
Hamas indiscriminately lob unguided munitions into perfectly innocent
Israeli neighborhoods. They *must* react somehow. Hamas is
nortorious for placing their rocket launchers within highly populated
areas. We should be asking ourselves why these butchers don't put
their launch sites in a field, or park, or anyplace that is not
populated. They do it on purpose, knowing that the Jews have no other
alternative but to destroy the site. Hamas is backed by Iran. That
automatically makes *them* the bad guy in this fight.

The Israelis are using so-called "smart" bombs that can be aimed very
precisely. Hamas has told their people that if they die in one of
these attacks that they will be martyrs and go to heaven. I say give
them that chance. Or, have Hamas put their terrorist weapons in
fields, parks, unoccupied spaces. I have absolutely no sympathy for
anyone that allows Hamas to do this and dies as a result of it.

Obama is on Israel's side in this one. That comes as a complete
surprise to me. Well done, Mr. President-elect.

Dave, RWC

On Dec 30, 4:41*pm, Dave LaCourse wrote:
Joe, if the Palestinian people allow Hamas to put rocket
launchers/pads in their front yard, then they are part of it and
should expect bad things to happen. *The Jews can not stand by and let
Hamas indiscriminately *lob unguided munitions into perfectly innocent
Israeli neighborhoods. *They *must* react somehow. *

Certainly those who are complicit in the attacks should reasonably
expect to be the focus of the retribution; but we don't know that's
what's happening. I doubt those in the neighborhoods have any more
control over Hamas than we do. You're some poor Palestinian schmuck
and you're going to run out and chase armed terrorists off your lawn?
Don't think so.

And by the same token, if Israeli families continue to support leaders
who attack Palestinian families, shouldn't *they* expect bad things to
happen? The line between innocent and complicit isn't as clear as you
want to draw it.


Hamas is
nortorious for placing their rocket launchers within highly populated
areas. *We should be asking ourselves why these butchers don't put
their launch sites in a field, or park, or anyplace that is not
populated. *They do it on purpose, knowing that the Jews have no other
alternative but to destroy the site. *

But they *do* have a choice. Regrettably, they have too often chosen
indiscriminate civilian deaths as an acceptable cost for revenge. I
don't like what Hamas does; but Israel's not taking the high road
either.


Obama is on Israel's side in this one. *

US support of Israel should come as no surprise to anybody. Whatever
warm body occupies the Oval Office won't change that until there's a
Palestinian lobby to rival AIPAC.

*Well done, Mr. President-elect.

Well that comes as a complete surprise to me. g

Joe F.

In article , Dave LaCourse
wrote:

If the Canuckistans started lobbing unguided missles towards Whidbey
Island, killing U.S. citizens, do ya think that we would have the
right to respond to such terrorism? Or, do you think that we should
just sit back, make more treaties for Canuckistanian Hamas to break,
and let them continue to kill our citizens.

Hamas is infamous for putting missle pads in populated areas. THEY
are at fault, Dave, not the Jews. The Jews have a right, just as you
do on Whidbey Island, to defend themselves. Hamas broke this latest
cease fire, not Israel.


Hi Dave

Happy Christmas

In the past eight years, the militant rockets and mortars fired from
Gaza have killed 20 people inside Israel. Three of those were killed on
Monday, including a soldier, and one died on Saturday when the bombing
first started.

Recent Israeli attacks on Palestinian territories include:

January 2006: Israel fires artillery rounds into Gaza and bombs
buildings after Hamas wins Palestinian elections

June 2006: Operation Summer Rain follows the capture of an Israeli
soldier. A total of 240 Palestinians are killed in two months of
bombing and ground raids

November 2006: Operation Autumn Clouds, a six-day ground invasion of
Beit Hanoun, results in at least 50 Palestinian deaths. Another 18 from
one family are killed in artillery shelling

January 2008: A total of 18 Palestinians are killed in one day in an
Israeli incursion into al-Zaytoun

February 2008: Israeli troops go into Jabaliya; around 120 Palestinians
are killed in five days

December 2008: Operation Cast Lead is launched. At least 360
Palestinians are killed in the first four days

You guys talk about your free press: is it right that you know all
these facts and feel that Palestine is clearly the agressor, and Israel
is merely responding reasonably?

Lazarus

On Dec 30, 1:41*pm, Dave LaCourse wrote:

So let me see . . . in Northern Ireland, why didn't the British just
bomb the **** out of Catholic residential neighborhoods where IRA
"terrorists" lived? Maybe they should have listened to your vast cold
war experience? Because Israel's violent over reactions have worked so
well in the past? Right?

Why do you leave out the fact that the Israelis had cut off food and
fuel supplies to Gaza during the "ceasefire?"

What name calling do you have for Israelis who call this attack on
civilians another war crime? The opposition to this fascist right wing
death dance is large and growing among Israelis and the U.S. Jewish
community.

Why is it necessary to kill 100 Palestinians for every Israeli killed?
The Nazis felt satisfied to kill only10 Frenchies for each German
killed by partisans. Could this have any relationship to worldwide
Muslim outrage?

How many Palestinians were involved in 9/11?

You are probably unaware that the Israelis allegedly were involved
(Shin Bet I believe) in the early development and support of Hamas,
right?

It is time Americans started to read the information that is freely
available in the Israeli media and begin to understand that Israeli
internal politics, corruption investigations, land speculation,
underworld enterprise, arms sales and damaged military consulting
reputations (Georgia and Lebanon) are a major part of the motivations
for what is happening.

And David, the icing on the cake, as per your full bore ignorance on
the Mideast, is your snoretuttle on Obama. There is only one President
in recent memory who even stood up a little to the Israeli lobby and
IDF military skimmers, and he wasn't a Democrat. (Papa Bush). You
watch who is going to pay for all this killing. Uncle Sam.

David Snedeker

On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 14:15:10 -0800 (PST), rb608
wrote:

Certainly those who are complicit in the attacks should reasonably
expect to be the focus of the retribution; but we don't know that's
what's happening. I doubt those in the neighborhoods have any more
control over Hamas than we do. You're some poor Palestinian schmuck
and you're going to run out and chase armed terrorists off your lawn?
Don't think so.

Uh, if someone set a missle/motor pad in my front yard, you can be
damn sure I am going to leave the area. Does Hamas make the
Palestinian schmuck continue to live in the house, knowing it is going
to be a target for the Israeli bombs? I'm willing to bet that he is.

And by the same token, if Israeli families continue to support leaders
who attack Palestinian families, shouldn't *they* expect bad things to
happen? The line between innocent and complicit isn't as clear as you
want to draw it.

NO. Israel is a sovereign nation being attacked by an outside force.
I draw on my example of the Great White Peacemaker of the West, Sir
David Chamberlain Snedeker: if the Mexicans or the Canadians allowed
Hamas to shoot rockets and motors into the U.S. of A, do we not have
the right to defend ourselves? I think we do. The line is very
clear: You defend your nation from attacks by outside sources.
Period.


Hamas is
nortorious for placing their rocket launchers within highly populated
areas. *We should be asking ourselves why these butchers don't put
their launch sites in a field, or park, or anyplace that is not
populated. *They do it on purpose, knowing that the Jews have no other
alternative but to destroy the site. *

But they *do* have a choice. Regrettably, they have too often chosen
indiscriminate civilian deaths as an acceptable cost for revenge. I
don't like what Hamas does; but Israel's not taking the high road
either.

What choice do they have except to try and defeat Hamas? It's not
revenge - it's self defense. Hamas broke this truce, this cease fire.
They used the last 6 and half months to re-arm themselves with Iranian
rockets and mortars. There will be another cease fire *only* when
Hamas runs out of munitions. That's the way it works, and you should
know that.


Obama is on Israel's side in this one. *

US support of Israel should come as no surprise to anybody. Whatever
warm body occupies the Oval Office won't change that until there's a
Palestinian lobby to rival AIPAC.

*Well done, Mr. President-elect.

Well that comes as a complete surprise to me. g

Au contraire, mon ami. I said in September that I could live with
Obama as potus. It was a funny moment (or at least *I* thought it
funny) because I was replying to someone who would have jumped off the
Boston Pru building if McCain had won. I couldn't lose! d;o)

Dave

On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 14:59:58 -0800 (PST), DaveS
wrote:

Why do you leave out the fact that the Israelis had cut off food and
fuel supplies to Gaza during the "ceasefire?"

lost of propaganda snipped

Gee, they cut off food and fuel supplies. Wow. But they didn't seem
to be able to cut of the munitions supplies. Why is that? You have
drank the coolaide, Dave. You believe everything you read in your
left wing nut publications. If it makes Israel look bad, you believe
it. Whatever the Israelis do it is not good. What would you say if
they took out Iran's nuclear capabilities? Would you applaud such a
move, or condemn them for (once again) defending themselves. Whose
side would you be on if all the Arab nations surrounding Israel once
again tried for total annihilation of the Israeli state? Never mind;
I know your answer.

Bottom line, David: Israel is a sovereign nation and has every right
to defend itself. Period. **** Hamas and every Muslim terrorist it
promises martyrdom. Hamas and Iran are not your friend, David, even
if you think an enemy of your enemy is your friend. Israel is your
enemy. Why? I have no idea. But your anti-Israeli bent has been
obvious for many years.

Dave, RWC

On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 22:15:15 +0000, Lazarus Cooke
wrote:

In article , Dave LaCourse
wrote:

If the Canuckistans started lobbing unguided missles towards Whidbey
Island, killing U.S. citizens, do ya think that we would have the
right to respond to such terrorism? Or, do you think that we should
just sit back, make more treaties for Canuckistanian Hamas to break,
and let them continue to kill our citizens.

Hamas is infamous for putting missle pads in populated areas. THEY
are at fault, Dave, not the Jews. The Jews have a right, just as you
do on Whidbey Island, to defend themselves. Hamas broke this latest
cease fire, not Israel.


Hi Dave

Happy Christmas

In the past eight years, the militant rockets and mortars fired from
Gaza have killed 20 people inside Israel. Three of those were killed on
Monday, including a soldier, and one died on Saturday when the bombing
first started.

Recent Israeli attacks on Palestinian territories include:

January 2006: Israel fires artillery rounds into Gaza and bombs
buildings after Hamas wins Palestinian elections

June 2006: Operation Summer Rain follows the capture of an Israeli
soldier. A total of 240 Palestinians are killed in two months of
bombing and ground raids

November 2006: Operation Autumn Clouds, a six-day ground invasion of
Beit Hanoun, results in at least 50 Palestinian deaths. Another 18 from
one family are killed in artillery shelling

January 2008: A total of 18 Palestinians are killed in one day in an
Israeli incursion into al-Zaytoun

February 2008: Israeli troops go into Jabaliya; around 120 Palestinians
are killed in five days

December 2008: Operation Cast Lead is launched. At least 360
Palestinians are killed in the first four days

You guys talk about your free press: is it right that you know all
these facts and feel that Palestine is clearly the agressor, and Israel
is merely responding reasonably?

Lazarus

Gee, Lazarus, you may have come upon something. Why don't you e-mail
the Hamas leaders and give them this info. I am sure they will then
see that they are fighting a no-win war and are doomed for
destruction.

Go Israel.


Dave, RWC

In article , Dave LaCourse
wrote:


Gee, Lazarus, you may have come upon something. Why don't you e-mail
the Hamas leaders and give them this info. I am sure they will then
see that they are fighting a no-win war and are doomed for
destruction.


The Brits had overwhelming military superiority over the Irish in 1920.

The French had overwhelming military superiority over the Algerians

The Americans had overwhelming military superiority over the Vietnamese.

The Russians had overwhelming superiority over the Afghans

In every case, a power trying to use overwhelming military superiority
over a native people.


Who won in the end?

Lazarus

(who might have added that the Brits were sure that they'd beat the
Yankees, as well)