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inner earth chelsea wrote:
...

Adventists to a person do not smoke or drink alcohol and they maintain close
supportive family relationships. The effect of their diets per se apart from
these other factors is not known.

Animal product consumption and mortality because of all
causes combined, coronary heart disease, stroke, diabetes,
and cancer in Seventh-day Adventists.

Probably the best science we have was summarized in the American Journal
of Clinical Nutrition in 1999, in an article entitled Mortality in
Vegetarians and Nonvegetarians. In an enormous undertaking, twelve
researchers took all of the biggest and best studies to date on
vegetarian mortality rates and pooled all the data together. They took a
decade of mortality data from 28,000 vegetarians from Germany,
California, and Britain. And found... no survival advantage for
vegetarians. What about vegans though? Despite even having lower
cholesterol levels than vegetarians, the vegans in the study didn't live
any longer either. Vegans had the same mortality rate as meateaters.
http://vegnews.org/modules.php?name=...=print&sid=121

But the S-D Adventists, study says otherwise.

No, it does not.

It certainly does say otherwise.

No, it doesn't. You're reading into it, as usual.

The difference between 81.2 (Okinawa) and 84.5 (SDA) is not
significant enough to motivate people to give up foods they enjoy -- and which
can still be part of a healthy diet and lifestyle. Find studies on populations
who eat lean meats, avoid alcohol and saturated fats, don't smoke, pray, and get
lots of exercise. The SDA data are not diet-only, but about healthy lifestyle.

Within that population, animal product consumption increases mortality.

Significantly? What rational person would gladly give up fish, steak, eggs, or
dairy for an average of only three extra years?

Animal product consumption and mortality because of all
causes combined, coronary heart disease, stroke, diabetes,
and cancer in Seventh-day Adventists.
Snowdon DA. Division of Epidemiology, School of Public Health,
University of Minnesota, Minneapolis.
This report reviews, contrasts, and illustrates previously published
findings from a cohort of 27,529 California Seventh-day Adventist
adults who completed questionnaires in 1960 and were followed
for mortality between 1960 and 1980. Within this population, meat
consumption was positively associated with mortality because of all
causes of death combined (in males), coronary heart disease (in
males and females), and diabetes (in males). Egg consumption was
positively associated with mortality because of all causes combined
(in females), coronary heart disease (in females), and cancers of the
colon (in males and females combined) and ovary.

Were those eggs consumed alone or with saturated fats like those found in
butter, bacon, sausages, etc.?
http://www.enc-online.org/dietc.htm

Milk consumption
was positively associated with only prostate cancer mortality, and
cheese consumption did not have a clear relationship with any cause
of death.

So consumption of cheese -- what the anti-milk activists call "concentrated
milk" -- doesn't have a relationship with mortality but unconcentrated milk
does. Go figure. BTW, did the researchers break down dairy consumption in terms
of whole milk, reduced fat, and non-fat?

The consumption of meat, eggs, milk, and cheese did not
have negative associations with any of the causes of death investigated.

See this one from the same author, dummy:
Diet, obesity, and risk of fatal prostate cancer

DA Snowdon, RL Phillips and W Choi

Findings described in this report are for 6,763 white male Seventh-day
Adventists who completed a dietary questionnaire in 1960. Between 1960
and 1980 mortality data were collected on cohort members. *Overweight*
men had a significantly higher risk of fatal prostate cancer than men
near their desirable weight. The predicted relative risk of fatal
prostate cancer was 2.5 for *overweight* men. Suggestive positive
associations were also seen between fatal prostate cancer and the
consumption of milk, cheese, eggs, and meat. There was an orderly dose-
response between each of the four animal products and risk. The
predicted relative risk of fatal prostate cancer was 3.6 for those who
heavily consumed all four animal products. The results of this study and
others suggest that animal product consumption and *obesity* may be risk
factors for fatal prostate cancer.
MY EMPHASIS, DUMMY.
http://aje.oupjournals.org/cgi/conte...ract/120/2/244

Same survey, same researchers. Compare these findings to other studies of
*OVERWEIGHT* study participants. *Obesity* kills, STUPID CHELSEA.

PMID: 3046303 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE


Any idea what their agricultural methods are?

Yes, most of the SDAs I know here purchase their food at HEB and Albertson's
(large chains) just live everyone else even though they don't buy meat.

...

usual suspect wrote:
...
See this one from the same author, dummy:
Diet, obesity, and risk of fatal prostate cancer

DA Snowdon, RL Phillips and W Choi

Findings described in this report are for 6,763 white male Seventh-day
Adventists who completed a dietary questionnaire in 1960. Between 1960
and 1980 mortality data were collected on cohort members. *Overweight*
men had a significantly higher risk of fatal prostate cancer than men
near their desirable weight. The predicted relative risk of fatal
prostate cancer was 2.5 for *overweight* men. Suggestive positive
associations were also seen between fatal prostate cancer and the
consumption of milk, cheese, eggs, and meat. There was an orderly dose-
response between each of the four animal products and risk. The
predicted relative risk of fatal prostate cancer was 3.6 for those who
heavily consumed all four animal products. The results of this study
and
others suggest that animal product consumption and *obesity* may be
risk
factors for fatal prostate cancer.
MY EMPHASIS, DUMMY.
http://aje.oupjournals.org/cgi/conte...ract/120/2/244

Same survey, same researchers. Compare these findings to other studies
of *OVERWEIGHT* study participants. *Obesity* kills, STUPID CHELSEA.

http://www.obesity-and-cancer.com/
http://dceg.cancer.gov/prost-cancer.html
http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/cg...tract/51/2/568
http://www.coloradohealthsite.org/ca...eatment_8.html
http://www.fao.org/docrep/V4700E/V4700E0g.htm
http://www.stanford.edu/~jpc/Chapter5.htm
http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/conference/kolonel.html

...

"pearl" wrote in message ...
..
Homocysteine is a toxic metabolite-it attacks our blood vessels,
it' attacks our brain cells; it's a risk factor for heart disease, for
stroke, for Alzheimer's and a growing number of other diseases.
And, up to 25% of lacto-vegetarians and 80% of vegans have
seriously elevated levels in their blood. This is probably why the
latest research suggests vegetarians have over twice the risk of
dying from degenerative brain diseases.
..
http://vegnews.org/modules.php?name=...=print&sid=121

?

Ref #235 - Giem P
SO: Neuroepidemiology. 1993; 12(1): 28-36
AB: We investigated the relationship between animal product
consumption and evidence of dementia in two cohort substudies.
The first enrolled 272 California residents matched for age,
sex, and zip code (1 vegan, 1 lacto-ovo-vegetarian, and 2
'heavy' meat eaters in each of 68 quartets). This design ensured
a wide range of dietary exposure. The second included 2,984
unmatched subjects who resided within the Loma Linda,
California area. All subjects were enrolled in the Adventist
Health Study. The matched subjects who ate meat (including
poultry and fish) were more than twice as likely to become
demented as their vegetarian counterparts (relative risk 2.18,
p = 0.065) and the discrepancy was further widened (relative
risk 2.99, p = 0.048) when past meat consumption was taken
into account. There was no significant difference in the
incidence of dementia in the vegetarian versus meat-eating
unmatched subjects. There was no obvious explanation for
the difference between the two substudies, although the power
of the unmatched sub-study to detect an effect of 'heavy' meat
consumption was unexpectedly limited. There was a trend
towards delayed onset of dementia in vegetarians in both
substudies.
http://www.llu.edu/llu/health/abstracts/abstracts2.htm

infantile liar "useless suspect" wrote in message
...

pearl wrote:
..
The consumption of meat, eggs, milk, and cheese did not
have negative associations with any of the causes of death investigated.

See this one from the same author, dummy:
Diet, obesity, and risk of fatal prostate cancer

DA Snowdon, RL Phillips and W Choi

Findings described in this report are for 6,763 white male Seventh-day
Adventists who completed a dietary questionnaire in 1960. Between 1960
and 1980 mortality data were collected on cohort members. *Overweight*
men had a significantly higher risk of fatal prostate cancer than men
near their desirable weight. The predicted relative risk of fatal
prostate cancer was 2.5 for *overweight* men. Suggestive positive
associations were also seen between fatal prostate cancer and the
consumption of milk, cheese, eggs, and meat. There was an orderly dose-
response between each of the four animal products and risk. The
predicted relative risk of fatal prostate cancer was 3.6 for those who
heavily consumed all four animal products. The results of this study and
others suggest that animal product consumption and *obesity* may be risk
factors for fatal prostate cancer.
MY EMPHASIS, DUMMY.
http://aje.oupjournals.org/cgi/conte...ract/120/2/244

Same survey, same researchers. Compare these findings to other studies of
*OVERWEIGHT* study participants. *Obesity* kills,

J Clin Gastroenterol. 1986 Aug;8(4):451-3.
Energy intake and body weight in ovo-lacto vegetarians.
Levin N, Rattan J, Gilat T.
Vegetarians have a lower body weight than omnivores. In
this study the relationship between the weight/height ratio and
food consumption was evaluated in 92 ovo-lacto vegetarians
and 113 omnivores in Israel. The average weight of the
vegetarians was significantly lower than that of the omnivores
(60.8 kg vs. 69.1 kg), even though the vegetarian diet supplied
a significantly higher amount of calories than the nonvegetarian
diet (3,030.5 cal/day vs. 2,626.8 cal/day). Consumption of fat
was similar in both groups. Carbohydrate consumption was
higher in the vegetarians while protein consumption was lower.
The prevalence of obesity was significantly lower in the
vegetarian group (5.4%) as compared to 19.5% among the
omnivores. The lower body weight of vegetarians despite a
higher caloric intake is of considerable interest.
PMID: 3760524

Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord. 1998 May;22(5):454-60.
Low body mass index in non-meat eaters: the possible roles
of animal fat, dietary fibre and alcohol.
Appleby PN, Thorogood M, Mann JI, Key TJ. Imperial
Cancer Research Fund Cancer Epidemiology Unit, Radcliffe
Infirmary, Oxford, UK.
OBJECTIVE: To examine the associations of diet and other
lifestyle factors with body mass index (BMI) using data from
the Oxford Vegetarian Study.
SUBJECTS: 1914 male and 3378 female non-smokers
aged 20-89 y at recruitment to the study.
MEASUREMENTS: All subjects completed a diet/lifestyle
questionnaire at recruitment giving details of their usual diet
and other characteristics including height and weight, smoking
and drinking habits, amount of exercise, occupation and
reproductive history. Answers to the food frequency
questionnaire were used to classify subjects as either meat
eaters or non-meat eaters, and to estimate intakes of animal
fat and dietary fibre. Subjects were further classified according
to their alcohol consumption, exercise level, social class, past
smoking habits and parity. RESULTS: Mean BMI was lower
in non-meat eaters than in meat eaters in all age groups for both
men and women. Overall age-adjusted mean BMIs in kg/m2
were 23.18 and 22.05 for male meat eaters and non-meat
eaters respectively (P 0.0001) and 22.32 and 21.32 for
female meat eaters and non-meat eaters respectively (P 0.0001).
In addition to meat consumption, dietary fibre intake, animal
fat intake, social class and past smoking were all independently
associated with BMI in both men and women; alcohol
consumption was independently associated with BMI in men,
and parity was independently associated with BMI in women.
After adjusting for these factors, the differences in mean BMI
between meat eaters and non-meat eaters were reduced by
36% in men and 31% in women.
CONCLUSIONS: Non-meat eaters are thinner than meat
eaters. This may be partly due to a higher intake of dietary fibre,
a lower intake of animal fat, and only in men a lower intake of
alcohol.
PMID: 9622343


..

JESUS!!!!!!! QUIT HUMPING EACH OTHERS LEGS AND GET A PAIR OF LIVES! WHO
CARES, MEAT- VEGETABLES.... ITS ALL FOOD....NOW BOTH OF YOU SHUT UP! YOU'RE
GIVING US ALL A HEADACHE. BESIDES THIS IS A BOATING POST. NOW SCRAM!

B

retarded foot-rubber lesley wrote:
..
The consumption of meat, eggs, milk, and cheese did not
have negative associations with any of the causes of death investigated.

See this one from the same author, dummy:
Diet, obesity, and risk of fatal prostate cancer

DA Snowdon, RL Phillips and W Choi

Findings described in this report are for 6,763 white male Seventh-day
Adventists who completed a dietary questionnaire in 1960. Between 1960
and 1980 mortality data were collected on cohort members. *Overweight*
men had a significantly higher risk of fatal prostate cancer than men
near their desirable weight. The predicted relative risk of fatal
prostate cancer was 2.5 for *overweight* men. Suggestive positive
associations were also seen between fatal prostate cancer and the
consumption of milk, cheese, eggs, and meat. There was an orderly dose-
response between each of the four animal products and risk. The
predicted relative risk of fatal prostate cancer was 3.6 for those who
heavily consumed all four animal products. The results of this study and
others suggest that animal product consumption and *obesity* may be risk
factors for fatal prostate cancer.
MY EMPHASIS, DUMMY.
http://aje.oupjournals.org/cgi/conte...ract/120/2/244

Same survey, same researchers. Compare these findings to other studies of
*OVERWEIGHT* study participants. *Obesity* kills,


J Clin Gastroenterol. 1986 Aug;8(4):451-3.
Energy intake and body weight in ovo-lacto vegetarians.
Levin N, Rattan J, Gilat T.
Vegetarians have a lower body weight than omnivores.

*Entirely* irrelevant to the issue at hand. Stop moving goalposts, you nasty
foot-fetishist.

...

STUPID pearl wrote:
..
Homocysteine is a toxic metabolite-it attacks our blood vessels,
it' attacks our brain cells; it's a risk factor for heart disease, for
stroke, for Alzheimer's and a growing number of other diseases.
And, up to 25% of lacto-vegetarians and 80% of vegans have
seriously elevated levels in their blood. This is probably why the
latest research suggests vegetarians have over twice the risk of
dying from degenerative brain diseases.

..

http://vegnews.org/modules.php?name=...=print&sid=121

?

Ref #235 - Giem P
SO: Neuroepidemiology. 1993; 12(1): 28-36
AB: We investigated the relationship between animal product
consumption and evidence of dementia in two cohort substudies.

My God, you stupid woman. Why can't you stick to one issue at a time instead of
treating scientific studies the same way you treat your conspiracy theory
sources? What's the incidence of dementia in groups like the Inuit who eat very
little in the way of plant foods and a lot of meat?

snip of stuff you'll NEVER understand or stop abusing

On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 16:37:42 GMT, usual suspect wrote:

*Entirely* irrelevant to the issue at hand. Stop moving goalposts, you nasty
foot-fetishist.

For the record, and to head off any criticism that I'm
trying to assist Pearl here, I've argued in the past that
seventh day adventists, because of confounding factors,
are a subset of people and so aren't representative of
our population generally.

[start]
Their avoidance of baccy and booze make them confounding
factors if the rest of us don't avoid these habits. Also, I might
add, these figures are based on a small subset of people and
aren't representative of the whole population. Making a judgment
based on a hasty generalisation using an unrepresented sample is
a logically flawed argument.

Unrepresentative Sample
AKA: Biased Sample
Type: Weak Analogy
N% of sample S has characteristic C.
(Where S is a sample unrepresentative of the population P.)
Therefore, N% of population P has characteristic C.

N% of the Seventh Day Adventists has characteristic C.
C- live longer on a vegetarian diet.
(SDA is a sample unrepresentative of the population P
because they don't smoke or drink)
Therefore N% of population P has characteristic C.

You are trying to claim that N% of our population would
live longer following a vegetarian diet similar to the N% of
SDA, but you cannot because their confounding factors
make them an unrepresentative sample
[end] http://tinyurl.com/3ffoc


So let's go back to the evidence you brought instead.

Probably the best science we have was summarized in the
American Journal of Clinical Nutrition in 1999, in an article
entitled Mortality in Vegetarians and Nonvegetarians. In an
enormous undertaking, twelve researchers took all of the
biggest and best studies to date on vegetarian mortality rates
and pooled all the data together. They took a decade of
mortality data from 28,000 vegetarians from Germany,
California, and Britain. And found... no survival advantage
for vegetarians. What about vegans though? Despite even
having lower cholesterol levels than vegetarians, the vegans
in the study didn't live any longer either. Vegans had the same
mortality rate as meateaters.
http://vegnews.org/modules.php?name=...=print&sid=121

Knowing high levels of cholesterol generally shorten life, aren't
you a little sceptical of the evidence presented by the American
Journal of Clinical Nutrition on this point?

On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 18:35:22 +0100, ipse dixit f@chance wrote:

On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 16:37:42 GMT, usual suspect wrote:

*Entirely* irrelevant to the issue at hand. Stop moving goalposts, you nasty
foot-fetishist.

For the record, and to head off any criticism that I'm
trying to assist Pearl here, I've argued in the past that
seventh day adventists, because of confounding factors,
are a subset of people and so aren't representative of
our population generally.

One of my cats is a foot-fetishist.

--

Paul

My Lake District walking site (updated 29th September 2003):

http://paulrooney.netfirms.com

"usual suspect" wrote in message ...
pearl wrote:
..
The consumption of meat, eggs, milk, and cheese did not
have negative associations with any of the causes of death investigated.

See this one from the same author, dummy:
Diet, obesity, and risk of fatal prostate cancer

DA Snowdon, RL Phillips and W Choi

Findings described in this report are for 6,763 white male Seventh-day
Adventists who completed a dietary questionnaire in 1960. Between 1960
and 1980 mortality data were collected on cohort members. *Overweight*
men had a significantly higher risk of fatal prostate cancer than men
near their desirable weight. The predicted relative risk of fatal
prostate cancer was 2.5 for *overweight* men. Suggestive positive
associations were also seen between fatal prostate cancer and the
consumption of milk, cheese, eggs, and meat. There was an orderly dose-
response between each of the four animal products and risk. The
predicted relative risk of fatal prostate cancer was 3.6 for those who
heavily consumed all four animal products. The results of this study and
others suggest that animal product consumption and *obesity* may be risk
factors for fatal prostate cancer.
MY EMPHASIS, DUMMY.
http://aje.oupjournals.org/cgi/conte...ract/120/2/244

Same survey, same researchers. Compare these findings to other studies of
*OVERWEIGHT* study participants. *Obesity* kills,


J Clin Gastroenterol. 1986 Aug;8(4):451-3.
Energy intake and body weight in ovo-lacto vegetarians.
Levin N, Rattan J, Gilat T.
Vegetarians have a lower body weight than omnivores.

*Entirely* irrelevant to the issue at hand. Stop moving goalposts, you nasty
foot-fetishist.

Temper, temper. You tried to move the goalposts, but they
were just too heavy for you. hahaha. BTW, thanks for this;

'Suggestive positive associations were also seen between fatal
prostate cancer and the consumption of milk, cheese, eggs, and
meat. There was an orderly dose- response between each of
the four animal products and risk. The predicted relative risk of
fatal prostate cancer was 3.6 for those who heavily consumed
all four animal products.'

Not so useless, after all. Rah.


...