Southern Hemisphere

On Apr 24, 1:59 pm, "Larry L" wrote:
As for a guide, I have nothing against a day or two to learn the ropes, ...
but even then the idea of some guy walking along then pointing,
---------------- "There's a fish, put on this fly, move over there 5 feet
above that rock, cast to the right edge of that seam. No, No, 4 feet
longer cast. Set, Set, SET !!! " is almost exactly opposite of my
reasons for fishing.

A good guide ought to treat you commensurate to your level of skill.
I'm not great but I'm above the "set, set!" level, and the couple (3?)
times I've had a guide, I've never heard those words. As Sandy said, I
imagine the days a guide has a skilled customer are genuinely fun for
them, and make up for the many days they might have clueless sports
who aren't interested in learning.

Is the "spotter/ angler teamwork" really needed in NZ ( team, as opposed to
paid guide )? Even if a good friend was the spotter, after a day or two,
I think I'd still have a hard time enjoying being told where, and when to

The couple of times I've done this, it was immensely enjoying. More
fun than solo fishing. With a good friend I think I could fish this
way for weeks...

Jon.

On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 19:59:29 GMT, "Larry L"
wrote:

As for a guide, I have nothing against a day or two to learn the ropes, ...
but even then the idea of some guy walking along then pointing,
---------------- "There's a fish, put on this fly, move over there 5 feet
above that rock, cast to the right edge of that seam. No, No, 4 feet
longer cast. Set, Set, SET !!! " is almost exactly opposite of my
reasons for fishing.

Larry, I use a guide on all my trips to new waters (Montana, Idaho,
Wyoming, Maine) as well as my far away trips and I have yet to have a
guide say that to me. All you need do is cast, mend, retrieve and
recast, and the guide knows pretty much what your level of expertise
is. If he keeps telling you *how* and *where* it is because he feels
you don't know. If you are a good fisherman, and I assume you are,
guides will leave you alone. They may recommend what fly to use and
you can either take their advice or not. Within an hour, you and the
guide should have a good rapport - he'll know how to treat you.

In all my trips overseas, Alaska, Canada, US, I have only encountered
one bad guide, and he was "bad" only because he didn't know how to
nymph or tail a fish (he didn't have a landing net).

While in Chile, the other two guys on the trip encountered some Brits
who were doing a diy trip and had not hired a guide. They were
fishless and asked what the two guys (father/son with a guide) were
using. They could have saved themselves a couple of days of
"guessing" if they had hired a guide for 1/2 day.

Dave

On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 22:25:05 GMT, "Larry L"
wrote:

I'm just a do it yourselfer kinda guy, more than anti-guide. I am simply
more rewarded by moderate success all on my own, than bigger 'success' while
being lead and shown how.

Larry, I have fished water that would have taken many days to figure
out (including my home waters) if it wasn't for a guide (or friend) to
show me the ropes. I have taken several friends to the Rapid. Some
wanted to be on their own and when they would see me and other folks
in our small group catching fish, they would eventually ask
how/what/where. There are little secrets to just about every stream I
encounter and any help I can get or give is always appreciated.

Dave

"Dave LaCourse" wrote

While in Chile, the other two guys on the trip encountered some Brits
who were doing a diy trip and had not hired a guide. They were
fishless and asked what the two guys (father/son with a guide) were
using. They could have saved themselves a couple of days of
"guessing" if they had hired a guide for 1/2 day.



I don't doubt the value of a guide as measured by fish to hand

and

I doubt the value of 'local knowledge" even less ... it is essential


IF I was on a rushed time frame, tight, schedule
OR
if I continued to struggle after a serious effort to figure things out on my
own
...... I would certainly seek and be willing to pay for help. It clearly
makes sense for a guy on an expensive, but short trip. If I was going to
Patagonia for a week, it would be a guided week.

One of the reasons I want to go to, say, Patagonia, for months instead of a
week or two is that I KNOW that my style will "waste" a lot of time before
"success" comes consistently. Same deal with my summers ... I
intentionally chose an "adopted home water," the HFork, that would take
me years to "learn" ... I WANT that struggle, thrive on it, it's one major
reason why I love the place, cause it's so damn hard ( not every day, of
course ) .... I'm not looking for instant, or constant success ... I'm
looking for constant challenge and the rare, but major extra cool, feeling
that comes with meeting that challenge.

On new waters, I usually manage to figure things out well enough to satisfy
myself with the result after a reasonable, to me, time frame.

For ME with large amounts of time available, my approach makes wonderful
sense, imho. Why? Because the 'feel good" of success after struggle
and effort feels better than without that struggle. The few times I've
had local experts introduce me to a new water with a, "Fish this pattern,
this way, in this type of water." approach ... I caught fish, but I very
quickly found myself wanting to try different patterns, different water
types and different techniques ... I just like doing the observing,
thinking, and learning by myself and make no apologies for that G
Note: asking other anglers "what ya using" does not mean the asker is always
dying from frustration over his own efforts, asking is part of the
observation that precedes the thinking :-)

However, I'm NOT suggesting my style to anyone else.
OR
in any way claiming it is superior, better, more efficient, more ethical,
cheaper, less fattening, healthier, or more glamorous :-)

"Larry L" wrote


However, I'm NOT suggesting my style to anyone else.
OR
in any way claiming it is superior, better, more efficient, more ethical,
cheaper, less fattening, healthier, or more glamorous :-)




It probably IS easier on the fish population, at least at first G

You don't strike me a a guided sort of angler, Larry. How long will you
be down there? Awhile? Just hang out, watch the action, talk to people,
try different places and methods. You'll catch fish.

Take lots of photos please.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

wrote


The couple of times I've done this, it was immensely enjoying. More
fun than solo fishing. With a good friend I think I could fish this
way for weeks...



I can't honestly say I've ever done it, as I think it's done in NZ. I
can see how being the 'spotter" could be very exciting and challenging. I
might love it with the right partner ... but I'm reminded of my one and only
truly wonderful hunting partner. One of the first things we agreed on was
that we'd each get our own birds while hunting over the same decoys. Many
groups just bang away and count birds for the blind until "everyone was
limited out." I've never hunted that way and always insisted on each
hunter covering a certain part of each flock ... you you get your limit, you
stop shooting, period ... it's kinda a team deal, work sharing, but not
really.

I think I sorta lean towards the same feeling in fishing, I'd rather go home
skunked than have you shooting my fish for me ... if that makes any sense
....


and remember, I've never really tried the take turns spotting deal ... never
fished where it was really 'needed"

I bought some 'fish porn' videos of New Zealand a couple days ago. I
must say that as a fan of stalking and sight fishing it looks pretty darn
good. Big fish, visible fish.


Anyone here been to New Zealand, fishing? I'd be going for a couple
months and am as interested in information about availabilty of cheap
camping/ lodging and ground transportation as the actual fishing. In
other words, "travel" info over "fishing" info ... but I'm eager for any
and all information. I have ZERO interest in guides and guided fishing
... just not my style.

Larry, I run a small Fly Fishing Club in the Central North Island of NZ. I'm
lucky enough to live 30 minutes drive away from the Tongariro River - NZ's
best known fly fishing river that feeds Lake Taupo.

I thoroughly recommend fishing this river if NZ is on your list. The fish
are generally of a good size - the current minimum length is 45 cm (just
under 18 inches), and bag limits of 3 fish are relatively common. While the
average size has been smaller than normal this year (around 3 lbs), the fish
are still worth taking home for the pan.

The river runs through a town that thrives on fishing. The locals are
generally helpful to out of towners - the fishing shops know their
livelihood depends on it. If you want to get an idea of the fishing then
check out http://tongarirorivermotel.co.nz/daily-report/. This daily report
is written by one of the local motel owners, and should give you an idea of
the fishing.

If you prefer to try a river out for yourself rather than have a guide take
you through, then you will save yourself a lot of money, but those who stay
at the motel often take advantage of eachothers company on the river anyway.

Trent Corbett
(long time lurker)

"Trent Corbett" wrote in message

Anyone here been to New Zealand, fishing? I'd be going for a couple
months and am as interested in information
Joe the Elder offers--Tongariro river brings back memories of my trip there
some years ago. We were headed to South Island but spent two nights at
local motel.[Anglers Paradise } Local fly shop sent me to Red Hut pool
where I found old chap sitting beside water enjoying his pipe. He said hatch
would start in around 30 minutes but I jumped in and started casting. Nada
! About 30 minutes later my wife spotting from shore said Joe there was a
rise behind you-joe there is a rise beside you ! Fish were everywhere and in
the hour before dark I caught none.
Next AM went back to same flyshop and said--You showed me the fish-now show
me the fly!! Equipped with some size 18 shrimp pattern I caught my limit of
three 3lb plus rainbows.[ 12 ft 5x leader)
I recommend South Island but sure enjoyed this stop on way down.