Oil/location report...

On Thu, 10 Jun 2010 21:29:36 -0600, rw wrote:

On 6/10/10 8:47 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 10 Jun 2010 20:25:32 -0600, wrote:

On 6/10/10 7:47 PM, wrote:

I didn't ask that you explain it *TO ME* (or anyone in particular) - I asked
that you explain it. But OK, explain *YOUR REASONING* for finding the phrase
"Urkel goes gangsta" racist.

You used two African American stereotypes ("Urkel" and "gangsta")

...and _I'm_ a racist...?

Yeah, right,
R


I see that that ignored my point about you stealing the (racist) joke
from a Rush Limbaugh substitute. At least now we can be certain about
where you get your media talking points from.

I have no idea what you are talking about - I don't listen to Limbaugh, so if he
said something similar, he stole it from me, not the other way around.

HTH,
R

On Thu, 10 Jun 2010 22:19:32 -0500, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:

rdean wrote:
rw wrote:
rdean wrote:
I didn't ask that you explain it *TO ME* (or anyone in particular) - I asked
that you explain it. But OK, explain *YOUR REASONING* for finding the phrase
"Urkel goes gangsta" racist.

You used two African American stereotypes ("Urkel" and "gangsta")

...and _I'm_ a racist...?

Oh yeah, you're a racist.

You may think your shtick is clever and funny but it's just
rewarmed, age-old racism couched in modern jargon. Sad.

Well, at Stevie had the courage to put his nonsense on the table...care to
explain *YOUR* reasoning for finding the phrase I used "racist"...?

On 6/10/10 9:35 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 10 Jun 2010 21:29:36 -0600, wrote:

On 6/10/10 8:47 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 10 Jun 2010 20:25:32 -0600, wrote:

On 6/10/10 7:47 PM, wrote:

I didn't ask that you explain it *TO ME* (or anyone in particular) - I asked
that you explain it. But OK, explain *YOUR REASONING* for finding the phrase
"Urkel goes gangsta" racist.

You used two African American stereotypes ("Urkel" and "gangsta")

...and _I'm_ a racist...?

Yeah, right,
R


I see that that ignored my point about you stealing the (racist) joke
from a Rush Limbaugh substitute. At least now we can be certain about
where you get your media talking points from.

I have no idea what you are talking about - I don't listen to Limbaugh, so if he
said something similar, he stole it from me, not the other way around.

HTH,
R

Yeah, right.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
rdean wrote:
rw wrote:
rdean wrote:
I didn't ask that you explain it *TO ME* (or anyone in particular) - I asked
that you explain it. But OK, explain *YOUR REASONING* for finding the phrase
"Urkel goes gangsta" racist.

You used two African American stereotypes ("Urkel" and "gangsta")

...and _I'm_ a racist...?

Oh yeah, you're a racist.

You may think your shtick is clever and funny but it's just
rewarmed, age-old racism couched in modern jargon. Sad.

Well, at Stevie had the courage to put his nonsense on the table...care to
explain *YOUR* reasoning for finding the phrase I used "racist"...?

Why don't you explain how using two demeaning black stereotypes,
the nerdy teenager and the violent black gangbanger, to describe
a thoughtful and intelligent black man who is neither isn't racist.

That kind of crap may pass for funny with the folks you hang with
in Mississippi but among educated people it's unacceptable and has
been for a long, long time.

--
Ken Fortenberry

On Fri, 11 Jun 2010 06:12:58 -0500, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:

wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
rdean wrote:
rw wrote:
rdean wrote:
I didn't ask that you explain it *TO ME* (or anyone in particular) - I asked
that you explain it. But OK, explain *YOUR REASONING* for finding the phrase
"Urkel goes gangsta" racist.

You used two African American stereotypes ("Urkel" and "gangsta")

...and _I'm_ a racist...?

Oh yeah, you're a racist.

You may think your shtick is clever and funny but it's just
rewarmed, age-old racism couched in modern jargon. Sad.

Well, at Stevie had the courage to put his nonsense on the table...care to
explain *YOUR* reasoning for finding the phrase I used "racist"...?

Why don't you explain how using two demeaning black stereotypes,
the nerdy teenager and the violent black gangbanger, to describe
a thoughtful and intelligent black man who is neither isn't racist.

Fair enough. I said nothing whatsoever about "violent" or "gangbangers" of any
color. You and Stevie (and anyone else who thought similarly) are _WAY_ off.
First, while an "Urkel" is "stereotypical," the "stereotypical" meaning is more
of that of a smart geeky nerd with iffy physical coordination (or a savant-like
prowess in one area and none in most others - IIRC, with the original "Urkel,"
it was dancing as I vaguely remember a dance called "the Urkel," but ???),
generally sweet and well-meaning, but often unsuccessful with things that
required "common sense" rather than "book smarts," and certainly not "a tough
guy." And while it obviously originated with a "black" character (played by a
black actor, on a sitcom about a black family, all played by black actors), it
has become a somewhat "colorblind" (albeit not completely) term, ala "geek,"
"nerd," etc. And I'd suggest that the term "nerd," that you yourself use, is
just as stereotypically "white" (albeit, again, not completely) - IOW, if one
insists that "Urkel" is a "racial stereotype," so is "nerd." And in any case,
it is unquestionably nothing more than typical guilty white liberal
paternalistic racism to insist that a term that originated via a black character
(played by a black actor in modern times) be "a racist stereotype," but hell,
even there, I've heard more "black people" call folks "a Kingfish" than I have
"white people" do so. Simply put, YOU found "racism" simply because YOU see
Obama as "black" and are paternalistically racist and are on the lookout to make
"racism" exist where it does not. Hell, I'm the one who has argued, and
believes, that Obama is as much "white" as he is "black" on a purely physical
level, and more "white" than "black" on a "personal history" level. I'd suggest
that a true "racist," either black or white, would concentrate on one or the
other, depending on the point they were attempting to make.

Let me ask you this - would the substitution of the phrase "It was like Lewis
Skolnick goes John Wayne" be, in your mind, "racist?" How about "Urkel goes
John Wayne?" Or "Lewis Skolnick goes gangsta?"

And as to "gangsta," if that's a stereotype at all, it is more of a _white_
stereotype, but really, it too is colorblind. It's simply someone - well, for
example, during your and Stevie's little to-do a few years back, it could be
appropriately said that it was like two Urkels going gangsta...well, if Urkel
had spent a month eating deep-fried sticks of butter with chocolate sauce,
anyway...

That kind of crap may pass for funny with the folks you hang with
in Mississippi but among educated people it's unacceptable and has
been for a long, long time.

Well, considering the terms are only a relative few years old, they both gained
traction into the common lexicon on high school and college campuses and are in
moderately common usage (primarily by younger people), you're flat-assed wrong -
not only do "educated people" accept them, but they use them, and in neither
case has any feeling, positive or negative, possibly existed "for a long, long
time." Oh, wait...did you mean "educated" as the self-applied stereotypical
codeword for "guilty white liberal paternalistic racists who presume that they
are 'educated'" and therefore, better than everyone else...?

HTH,
R

wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
Why don't you explain how using two demeaning black stereotypes,
the nerdy teenager and the violent black gangbanger, to describe
a thoughtful and intelligent black man who is neither isn't racist.

Fair enough. I said nothing whatsoever about "violent" or "gangbangers" of any
color. You and Stevie (and anyone else who thought similarly) are _WAY_ off.
blithering nonsense snipped

You're ridiculous. The only one who is WAY off is you and
you're so far off you're on a different planet.

No matter how much you want to argue otherwise, describing
a black man as "Urkel goes gangsta" is every bit as racist
as describing a black woman as "Aunt Jemima goes ho". On
this planet.

I wouldn't want to censor Usenet even if that were possible
but I do feel obligated to speak up in the face of racist
and offensive speech. A lot of what spews off your Mississippi
keyboard is precisely that, racist and offensive speech.

--
Ken Fortenberry

On 11-Jun-2010, Ken Fortenberry wrote:

but I do feel obligated to speak up in the face of racist
and offensive speech

Ditto

Fred

On Jun 11, 7:57*am, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:
wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
Why don't you explain how using two demeaning black stereotypes,
the nerdy teenager and the violent black gangbanger, to describe
a thoughtful and intelligent black man who is neither isn't racist.

Fair enough. *I said nothing whatsoever about "violent" or "gangbangers" of any
color. *You and Stevie (and anyone else who thought similarly) are _WAY_ off.
blithering nonsense snipped

You're ridiculous. The only one who is WAY off is you and
you're so far off you're on a different planet.

No matter how much you want to argue otherwise, describing
a black man as "Urkel goes gangsta" is every bit as racist
as describing a black woman as "Aunt Jemima goes ho". On
this planet.

I wouldn't want to censor Usenet even if that were possible
but I do feel obligated to speak up in the face of racist
and offensive speech. A lot of what spews off your Mississippi
keyboard is precisely that, racist and offensive speech.

--
Ken Fortenberry

Amen.
Whatever our past, however constructed or reconstructed or un-
reconstructed, we are individually, as an American people we cannot
afford racist nonsense. A big chunk of the World would love to eat our
lunch. (and lots of the rest would love to come here.) Gratuitous,
divisive, public racist crap is a vice we can no longer afford.

While our dinosaurs still find refuge in the ****ponds of the last
century, thankfully, our military, our schools and most younger
Americans understand the necessity of curbing racism. We have made
some progress.

Dave
I am not much for prayer, but one I have always liked is this: God
bless the United States, our Union, our Constitution and Bill of
Rights, and give wisdom to our elected leaders. Amen

On Fri, 11 Jun 2010 09:57:57 -0500, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:

wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
Why don't you explain how using two demeaning black stereotypes,
the nerdy teenager and the violent black gangbanger, to describe
a thoughtful and intelligent black man who is neither isn't racist.

Fair enough. I said nothing whatsoever about "violent" or "gangbangers" of any
color. You and Stevie (and anyone else who thought similarly) are _WAY_ off.
blithering nonsense snipped

You're ridiculous. The only one who is WAY off is you and
you're so far off you're on a different planet.

No matter how much you want to argue otherwise, describing
a black man as "Urkel goes gangsta" is every bit as racist
as describing a black woman as "Aunt Jemima goes ho". On
this planet.

Oh, I have no idea what constitutes "racist" up Uranus way...and you failed to
answer at least one set of questions:

Let me ask you this - would the substitution of the phrase "It was like Lewis
Skolnick goes John Wayne" be, in your mind, "racist?" How about "Urkel goes
John Wayne?" Or "Lewis Skolnick goes gangsta?"

Howabout "Fred Armisen goes Shaft" or "Kenan Thompson goes Fred
Williamson"...or, ahem, Reba McEntire...? How about "Obama dances like James
Brown" or "Obama sings just like 'Larry Love'" (that's the guy from Alabama 3
that sung "Woke Up This Morning..." used on the Sopranos...)?

And speaking of ridiculous, comparing a character created by a black actor,
doing a family sitcom in the 1990s about a black family in which they were
portrayed as a normal family (at least as sitcoms go), and embraced by blacks
and whites alike, to a character derived from a minstrel bit created by whites
during or not long after the end of black slavery in the US and done
purposefully as a "stereotypical" and derogatory depiction of "black 'mammies'"
is not only ridiculous, but extraordinarily racist in itself - whether it is
"offensive" to anyone is a personal matter.

IAC, the idea, that in 2010, one cannot make a comedic exaggerated comparison
between a modern sitcom character of no particular racial connotation (IOW, the
"blackness" of Urkel was merely a happenstance physical characteristic, along
with being taller, thin, and somewhat "gangly") and another person, who happens
to be bi-racial, while using a term that, in and of itself is not "racial" and
has become a part of "colorblind" lexicon, can only be explained by patently
paternalistic guilty white PC "liberalism." Hell, it isn't even particularly
"disparaging" - Urkel wasn't a "bad" or "stupid" character, in fact, just the
opposite - it simply contrasts the silliness of a guy who is basically kinda
geeky/brainy and not very "physical" in his public persona threatening to "kick
some ass." Had he said, "I'll give them SUCH a talking-to... I'll talk at them
for at least a week...." it would have sounded completely "in-persona." Obama
making references to "kicking ass" sounds just as silly as you and Stevie
threatening to do it to each other

I wouldn't want to censor Usenet even if that were possible
but I do feel obligated to speak up in the face of racist
and offensive speech. A lot of what spews off your Mississippi
keyboard is precisely that, racist and offensive speech.

Actually, I think my keyboard is Chinese, but these days, who knows...I'm pretty
sure it isn't from Mississippi...I bought it in New York...as to Usenet and you
speaking up in the face of such, well, get busy and good luck with that...and
I'm pretty sure Usenet doesn't need you or Stevie protecting its virgin
ears..er, eyes...from the horror of seeing the phrase "Urkel goes gangsta"...

IAC, "racist" and "offensive" are completely different things - something can be
one without being the other. For example, you setting the table with a mound of
steaming cowpies and attempting to gourmet it up by labeling it "Though a la
Merde avec Fortenberry" could be seen as offensive, yet have no tinge of
"racism," and generally speaking, your racism isn't particularly offensive, at
least IMO, because you don't seem to even be aware of it. You think you are
doing the right thing, feeling the right way, but in reality, it is more harmful
than David Duke/Al Sharpton type overt racism. At least with that type of
overtly racist bull****, there is no way to make it sound good. I'm pretty sure
black people don't need a pasty white boy with a golf club or Idaho's own "Brian
Keith, Male Innertube Model" as over-sensitive paternalistic champions of their
skin color, even if it needed defending...which it doesn't...

And finally, from that noted right-wing outlet:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...855333,00.html

and the answer is, "No, not if he goes on the radical underground
always-edgycool 'Today' show, with that idol of hipsters, flipsters and
finger-popping daddios, Matt Lauer, and uses a phrase containing 'kick' and
'ass'..." It was like Matt Broderick explaining to Charlie Rose how he was
getting into character for his portrayal of Marcellus Wallace in the stage
version of "Pulp Fiction." If this had been 2 years ago, David Alan Grier could
have REALLY done an "Obama ain't really black" bit...

HTH,
R

wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
No matter how much you want to argue otherwise, describing
a black man as "Urkel goes gangsta" is every bit as racist
as describing a black woman as "Aunt Jemima goes ho". On
this planet.

Oh, I have no idea what constitutes "racist" up Uranus way...

Yeah, you do. You're not stupid, you're racist and you use
roff as your platform to spew racist comments with impunity.

I have no idea why you would want to do something so perverse
but you're not winning any converts or making any friends.

--
Ken Fortenberry