Most Humane Way to Clean Fish

riverman wrote:
No, we don't care about Sarah Fox
PhD or her solution. We don't really care if fish feel pain, because we
pretty universally conclude that they don't, for the sake of our
'sport'.

Even you didn't conclude that, or at least you didn't explain your
reasoning. You gave no information to support the view that fish can't
suffer, and you came to no reasoned conclusion one way or the other
based on the information that's available. Think there's not enough
information available? Fine, I won't argue with you, but doesn't that
mean that you don't know whether fish feel pain? You mainly emphasized
the fact that Sarah Fox used some less than definitive terms. But I do
agree that you might be supporting the "fish feel no pain" side for the
sake of your sport.


The solution that Sarah Fox PhD proposes (using an ice chest to
cold-anesthetize them) is so impractical to us as to be gaggingly
idiotic, and your insistence that we keep "Listening to youuuuuuuu" is
similarly idioticly gagging. Go home now.

You wouldn't need to keep listening to me if you heard me to begin
with. Nobody said that an ice chest is practical for people standing in
the water or people who catch and release. I've explained that several
times already. (I'm thinking "floating ice chest" but I won't say
anything...)

Oh, and for the edification of all of us, I'd love to know where and
how you came across that article in the first place that so inspired
you to repost it in several newsgroups.

I don't remember, but I don't think I got it from the website you
referred to (but didn't specify). It was only in Google's cache of some
page when I read it.

No, you don't remember where you got it, do you. My guess is that, if
you DID find it yourself, you found it he

http://tinyurl.com/d6fq9

Interesting what I came across while looking for Captian Mel's page,
though: check this out. http://tinyurl.com/abzhd

Same type of "Gee I read this elsewhere on the internet" intro. Pure
bait. So whats the game, soupsandwich? You really ARE a troll, aren't
you?

By the way, to get an idea of what you have on your feet and are
tracking all over the kitchen floor, do a google search on "do fish
feel pain". Then start measuring your hero/heroine's credentials up
against the rest of the "industry". Here's one link for you:
http://www.cotrout.org/do_fish_feel_pain.htm

And again, for a real laugh, do some research on your hero/heroine.
Google "sarah fox neurobiology". A Ph.D. in neurobiology, I'm sure.
--riverman

On 20 Nov 2005 01:27:14 -0800, wrote:


You wouldn't need to keep listening to me if you heard me to begin
with. Nobody said that an ice chest is practical for people standing in
the water or people who catch and release. I've explained that several
times already. (I'm thinking "floating ice chest" but I won't say
anything...)


Do you recall the information about trout (and other salmonoids) not
being bothered in the least by icy water? They are NOT anesthetized
by it. Not that, by now, I'd have expected you to have paid attention
to verifiable facts.

By the by, what's that woman's Ph.D. field? What are her peer
reviewed papers?

You have obviously never stood / waded in water with a current. You
don't have anything in there that the current can grab and take,
pulling you under / along with it.

Hmm. You go try it. Find a nice trout stream, wade out to your waist
with something nice and floatie tied onto you. Then come back and
tell us more. But it's more likely you'd find yourself becoming one
with the fishes. They do like to nibble on unresisting flesh.

Cyli
r.bc: vixen. Minnow goddess. Speaker to squirrels.
Often taunted by trout. Almost entirely harmless.

http://www.visi.com/~cyli
email: lid (strip the .invalid to email)

riverman wrote:
I have no desire to follow your links without seeing a relevant quote
in this thread, especially when you resort to name calling. Why are you
calling me names now? Because I didn't find bad stuff about Sarah Fox
like you claim to have found? Or are you assuming I posted the article
on that other website...as if there's something wrong with that? Isn't
that a low standard for calling someone names?

Is there a Charter for this newsgroup?

Stomp, pout.

--riverman

Cyli wrote:
On 20 Nov 2005 01:27:14 -0800, wrote:

Do you recall the information about trout (and other salmonoids) not
being bothered in the least by icy water? They are NOT anesthetized
by it. Not that, by now, I'd have expected you to have paid attention
to verifiable facts.

I recall someone saying something like that, but I think their argument
was just that the cold water fish can still jump, and there was a
misconception that I said cold water would kill the fish. I don't
believe the post you're referring to mentioned anesthetizing anything.
I don't know how cold the water has to be, or how cold a bucket of ice
water is compared to the sea you're talking about, or whether it works
for all fish. Maybe it doesn't work at all. I just heard one opinion
that it does, which may not be much, but based on it and the
"arguments" here, I'm heavily leaning toward believing it. If you
don't, fine. I'll look into it more. You'll go fishing.


By the by, what's that woman's Ph.D. field? What are her peer
reviewed papers?

I have no idea.


Find a nice trout stream, wade out to your waist
with something nice and floatie tied onto you. Then come back and
tell us more. But it's more likely you'd find yourself becoming one
with the fishes. They do like to nibble on unresisting flesh.

If this is about the floating cooler idea that I didn't mention, I
don't know. Maybe anchor it?

I don't know how cold the water has to be, or how cold a bucket of ice
water is compared to the sea you're talking about, or whether it works
for all fish. Maybe it doesn't work at all. I just heard one opinion
that it does, which may not be much, but based on it and the
"arguments" here, I'm heavily leaning toward believing it. If you
don't, fine.

Are you on the Kansas Board of Education? "I just heard one OPINION that is
does (work)..."
As I've mentioned many times before, know your FACTS before you come in and
try to change someone's mind, aka educate yourself before you attempt to
educate others.
You remind me of a religious zealot. Blind to the natural world around him,
ignoring anything that doesn't fit into his or her perfect little concept.
As a matter of fact, what you're doing is applying the group think of
religion to science.

--
Frank Reid
Reverse email to reply

(sigh) Why anchor the cooler, or even HAVE a cooler, if we are
practicing catch and release? And why bother with the cooler if we use
a priest for the times we DO kill the fish? And what good is the ice
anyway, if we are pulling the fish out of icy water in the first place?


You aren't listening at all, are you?

--riverman

riverman wrote:
(sigh) Why anchor the cooler, or even HAVE a cooler, if we are
practicing catch and release? And why bother with the cooler if we use
a priest for the times we DO kill the fish? And what good is the ice
anyway,

Well, it would be someplace to keep the beer. Maybe Barry has a point.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Frank Reid wrote:
Are you on the Kansas Board of Education? "I just heard one OPINION that is
does (work)..."
As I've mentioned many times before, know your FACTS before you come in and
try to change someone's mind

Sometimes the purpose of posting something is part of the process of
learning the facts, but I'll review what I do know below.


You remind me of a religious zealot. Blind to the natural world around him,
ignoring anything that doesn't fit into his or her perfect little concept.

A minute ago I admittedly didn't know the facts, and now I have a
perfect little concept and am blind to something?

Here's what we know. Sarah Fox isn't saying not to eat fish or not to
fish, or that a hook causes pain, or even that fish contains too much
mercury. If she has no reason to believe that cold-anesthesia can
reduce suffering, why would she say it does? It's all about reducing
pain. Her argument would be a very inefficient way of saving lives of
fish, so I don't think that's what's motivating her. Her methods are
simple and worth using, at least in some cases. If this thread teaches
people nothing else, I hope it teaches people that there's a
possibility (I'd say a likelihood) of fish feeling pain, and you
shouldn't gut or clean them without at least cutting off the head. Or
do whatever you think will cause the least pain.