Ceviche

Spent easter in Italy with my daughter, grand-daughter and my Chilean
son-in-law. He is a very good cook, and makes a neat ceviche.

I'd like to try it with trout, but know that trout and salmon are full
of parasites that aren't good for us, and should never be used as
sashimi.

Does anyone know if the process of making ceviche kills these parasites?

I've looked through the Roffian archives (My! arent't they dusty? **
and didn't we all look young, fresh and eager in those days?) and apart
from this splendid exchange:-

Wes Peterson wrote:
The French call this raw fish preparation ceviche.

What a coincidence ! That's EXACTLY what the Mexicans call it.
:-)
--
Ken Fortenberry

..... I couldn't see much that helped.

Lazarus,
who is about to cycle into Brixton market to see if he can find some
sea-bass, on this, the second sunny day of the year in London.

On Wed, 07 May 2008 13:23:36 +0100, Lazarus Cooke
wrote:

Spent easter in Italy with my daughter, grand-daughter and my Chilean
son-in-law. He is a very good cook, and makes a neat ceviche.

I'd like to try it with trout, but know that trout and salmon are full
of parasites that aren't good for us, and should never be used as
sashimi.

Does anyone know if the process of making ceviche kills these parasites?

I've looked through the Roffian archives (My! arent't they dusty? **
and didn't we all look young, fresh and eager in those days?) and apart
from this splendid exchange:-

Wes Peterson wrote:
The French call this raw fish preparation ceviche.

What a coincidence ! That's EXACTLY what the Mexicans call it.
:-)
--
Ken Fortenberry

.... I couldn't see much that helped.

Lazarus,
who is about to cycle into Brixton market to see if he can find some
sea-bass, on this, the second sunny day of the year in London.

Well, "ceviche" covers a lot of ground, as does "salmon and trout"
(certain salmon is fine as sashimi/sushi/negiri - "sake"), but if you
mean to ask if citrus fruit juice will kill all fish-borne parasites in
every fresh- or salt-water fish and/or make it safe for all to consume
"raw," no, it won't. IMO, neither "trout" or "salmon" ceviche sound
very good, anyway, but, hey, YMMV...

TC,
R

In article ,
wrote:


Well, "ceviche" covers a lot of ground, as does "salmon and trout"
(certain salmon is fine as sashimi/sushi/negiri - "sake"), but if you
mean to ask if citrus fruit juice will kill all fish-borne parasites in
every fresh- or salt-water fish and/or make it safe for all to consume
"raw," no, it won't. IMO, neither "trout" or "salmon" ceviche sound
very good, anyway, but, hey, YMMV...

I'm not sure how much ground it covers. The wikipedia definition: 'a
form of citrus-marinated seafood salad, popular in many Latin American
countries' seems simple and succinct.

But if I need to elaborate, I mean raw fish marinated in citrus juice -
ideally the juice of a fruit called 'limon' in Central/south America
and in Cuba - that is midway between lemon and lime in european terms.
(I'd use a mixture of lemon and lime juice).

On 'salmon' and 'trout' I agree, I was a bit vague, being in Europe. I
meant the only two beasties known here under those names, viz. salmo
salar and salmo trutta - especially in my case those caught by me in
fresh water.

I'm not sure whether it'd taste good or not - I know it's normally made
in Chile with turbot or sea-bass - but I'd like to try.

I don't think freshwater salmon is safe in sashimi - I think it's
heated before eating when one eats it thus, as is mackeral (sp??).

And I'm disappointed that

if you
mean to ask if citrus fruit juice will kill all fish-borne parasites in
every fresh- or salt-water fish and/or make it safe for all to consume
"raw," no, it won't.

Any elaboration on sources, details etc?

Thanks for the help.

Lazarus

Lazarus

On Wed, 07 May 2008 13:23:36 +0100, Lazarus Cooke
wrote:

Spent easter in Italy with my daughter, grand-daughter and my Chilean
son-in-law. He is a very good cook, and makes a neat ceviche.

I had a taste of Chilean ceviche last month while in Patagonia. I
didn't care for it. However, the ceviche I had in Panama many years
ago was excellent, and it was made with barracuda. The only ceviche I
have seen, other than in Chile, was made with barracuda.

I seriously doubt any trout or salman would make good ceviche.
Besides, they are much better pan fried, baked, or grilled.


Dave

On Wed, 07 May 2008 16:25:15 +0100, Lazarus Cooke
wrote:

In article ,
wrote:


Well, "ceviche" covers a lot of ground, as does "salmon and trout"
(certain salmon is fine as sashimi/sushi/negiri - "sake"), but if you
mean to ask if citrus fruit juice will kill all fish-borne parasites in
every fresh- or salt-water fish and/or make it safe for all to consume
"raw," no, it won't. IMO, neither "trout" or "salmon" ceviche sound
very good, anyway, but, hey, YMMV...

I'm not sure how much ground it covers. The wikipedia definition: 'a
form of citrus-marinated seafood salad, popular in many Latin American
countries' seems simple and succinct.

But if I need to elaborate, I mean raw fish marinated in citrus juice -
ideally the juice of a fruit called 'limon' in Central/south America
and in Cuba - that is midway between lemon and lime in european terms.
(I'd use a mixture of lemon and lime juice).

Well, this is exactly what I mean by "covering a lot of ground," i.e.,
ceviche in, say, the US gulf coast (TX, LA, MS, AL, FL) will be
overwhelmingly "lime" juice - either Persian or Key, whereas further
south, it'll be, as you say, "limon," which really isn't readily
available outside those areas. And "seafood" covers a lot of ground -
various fishes, shrimp/prawn/lobster/crab, oysters and clams,
squid/calamari, even conch, etc., etc., etc. I've had about as many
different variations on ceviche as I have on gumbo - trust me, that's a
lot of variations...

On 'salmon' and 'trout' I agree, I was a bit vague, being in Europe. I
meant the only two beasties known here under those names, viz. salmo
salar and salmo trutta - especially in my case those caught by me in
fresh water.

I'm not sure whether it'd taste good or not - I know it's normally made
in Chile with turbot or sea-bass - but I'd like to try.

Good choices, as are snapper, cobia/lemonfish/ling, and several other
species, many of which are geographic location-dependent.

I don't think freshwater salmon is safe in sashimi - I think it's
heated before eating when one eats it thus, as is mackeral (sp??).

Well, typically, sake is Pacific salmon and it's frozen like tuna before
raw service. I eat it, have for years, and with never a problem - I
just don't think it would make tasty ceviche.

And I'm disappointed that

Look/ask for "sake" in a trusted sushi bar - I offer no warranty,
expressed or implied...

if you
mean to ask if citrus fruit juice will kill all fish-borne parasites in
every fresh- or salt-water fish and/or make it safe for all to consume
"raw," no, it won't.

Any elaboration on sources, details etc?

I'd offer that a Google of "Anisakiasis ceviche" would produce a wealth
of info, and certainly a number of places to start if you REALLY want to
look into it.

If you want the bottom line, it's that a short soak in citrus juice
won't kill every potential nasty. The acid in the citrus juice really
just causes a protein reaction in the seafood that makes it looked
"cooked," it doesn't (obviously) "cook" it in the traditional sense, nor
is it a substitute for the heat that kills various nasties in
"traditional" "cooking."

A favorite recipe for us is:

fish, cubed about 1/2" - 15mm or so
shrimp _lightly_ steamed _and then_ peeled
oysters, if in season
lump crabmeat
pico de gallo (tomatoes, chiles, onions, avocados, all diced about like
the fish, cilantro/coriander _leaves_, vinegar, cumin/comino powder,
garlic, salt and pepper, a shot of lemon juice)
squid/calamari rings, if fresh-caught
lime juice
and depending on who's eating, some more chiles (whatever milder chile
is handy - about up to jalapeno or so)

Mix and let macerate for a coupla hours or so. Eat with saltine
crackers, corn tortillas, or your hands, depending...

We make this while fishing, on the beach, and at home, though mainly
when the seafood is fresh-caught.

Thanks for the help.

You're welcome, and hope the above helps, too,
R

Lazarus

Lazarus

On Wed, 07 May 2008 16:25:15 +0100, Lazarus Cooke
wrote:

PS - "sake" when describing salmon is pronounced, generally, "sha-kay,"
rather than, generally, "sa-ki," as in the beverage/wine.

TC,
R

I tried my hand at making ceviche during a trip to Mexico in the winter
of 2006, using whatever ocean fish I managed to catch. I liked it, but
no one else in my party would touch it. :-)

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

wrote:

[snippage]

Well, typically, sake is Pacific salmon and it's frozen like tuna before
raw service. I eat it, have for years, and with never a problem - I
just don't think it would make tasty ceviche.

FWIW, when Carol and I were in Hawaii, we had a dish called
lomi-lomi salmon. IIRC, it was made with raw (salted?) salmon, onions,
lime juice, tomatoes and maybe a bit of red pepper flakes.

I know it's not ceviche, but it was a similar idea. I'm guessing
they probably froze it like you mention above to make it safe.


Chuck Vance (btw, the lomi-lomi was very good)

On Thu, 08 May 2008 07:16:41 -0500, Conan The Librarian
wrote:

wrote:

[snippage]

Well, typically, sake is Pacific salmon and it's frozen like tuna before
raw service. I eat it, have for years, and with never a problem - I
just don't think it would make tasty ceviche.

FWIW, when Carol and I were in Hawaii, we had a dish called
lomi-lomi salmon. IIRC, it was made with raw (salted?) salmon, onions,
lime juice, tomatoes and maybe a bit of red pepper flakes.

I know it's not ceviche, but it was a similar idea. I'm guessing
they probably froze it like you mention above to make it safe.


Chuck Vance (btw, the lomi-lomi was very good)

Interesting. I've never had lomi-lomi salmon that was like what I would
call "ceviche," but hey, like I said, "ceviche" covers a lot of ground.
I thought it was smoked salmon, which by itself wouldn't necessarily
kill all the nasties, but freezing first and then smoking is sort of a
double whammy. Are you familiar with cold-smoked salmon? If so, was
what you had anything like it? And my feelings toward a salmon
"ceviche" are more that it would be both an inappropriate fish and a
waste to make "ceviche" out of it - picture, if you will, chicken-fried
trout for something akin to my feeling toward salmon ceviche.

TC,
R

wrote:

Interesting. I've never had lomi-lomi salmon that was like what I would
call "ceviche," but hey, like I said, "ceviche" covers a lot of ground.
I thought it was smoked salmon, which by itself wouldn't necessarily
kill all the nasties, but freezing first and then smoking is sort of a
double whammy. Are you familiar with cold-smoked salmon? If so, was
what you had anything like it?

Nope, it wasn't smoked at all. I don't know if this was the
"traditional" preparation of lomi-lomi, but it was in a little dive on
Kauai (the Aloha Cafe, IIRC), so I don't have any reason to doubt that
it was authentic.

As far as the similarity to ceviche -- that's what caught my
attention. Throw in some cilantro and a few serrano peppers and it
could have passed for it.

And my feelings toward a salmon
"ceviche" are more that it would be both an inappropriate fish and a
waste to make "ceviche" out of it - picture, if you will, chicken-fried
trout for something akin to my feeling toward salmon ceviche.

I don't totally disagree with you, because I could do just fine if I
never ate salmon any way but smoked. All else being equal, I'd be happy
with shrimp ceviche exclusively.


Chuck Vance