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Baitcasting reels-the attractive antique that reel companies won'tadmit to



 
 
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  #11  
Old August 18th, 2008, 10:00 PM posted to rec.outdoors.fishing.bass
AJ[_2_]
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Posts: 9
Default Baitcasting reels-the attractive antique that reel companies won't admit to

In article [email protected]
56g2000hsm.googlegroups.com, says...

this statement needs to be qualified- more accurate, but how far of a
cast, with what weight line ?

I've been using spinning reels for 40 years- and fishing some very
difficult, covered streams with them- where any type of overhead cast
means you're stuck in a tree branch above you due to cover brush- and
using 4-6 lb. test lines- there's simply no way a baitcaster can do
that

try casting a baitcaster with 2 mealie grubs for bait on a hook, with
4 lb. line. A spinning reel does it effortlessly

the basic design of a baitcaster, makes it less accurate, not more
accurate. The reel spool turning and putting drag on the lure, and
requiring thumb pressure to prevent backlash, isn't helping accuracy.
You can pitch a spinning reel lure the same as a baitcaster, with no
backlash and with thinner line, and lighter weight lure-and not have
to thumb the spool.

the baitcaster needs to equal/best a spinning reel in all respects,
if it's going to be "better"

the same amount of practice would yield same accuracy with spinning
reel, and the spinning reel has more distance- one can master a
spinning reel in one day- not so with a baitcaster

what we have is, a lot of misinformation/disinformation from reel
companies, who are still selling what is basically an outdated
trolling reel or deep sea reel design, for casting baits- it's simply
not as good a for casting as a spinning reel

a baitcaster DOES have more winching in power- hands down- that is its
only salvation- for catching a large quantity of fish over 10 lbs. in
size, trolling from a boat or deap sea fishing, the choice would be a
baitcaster

a baitcaster does have a vintage romantic charm to it though- and it's
a sturdy thing- I have 4 of them myself, and have using them for about
2 years now. But after a while, it's nice to just put 8 lb. test on
my open face reel, and cast 200 feet effortlessly- and it's deadly
accurate.

Fished all morning with my trusty Calcutta 150, St Croix 6.5' medium
fast rod, 10 lb. Berkley Sensation, and had zero backlashes, which is
pretty much normal. Sure glad I had it when that Northern shot out from
nowhere, hit the lure 3 ft. away from the boat going like a freight
train, and dove under the boat into the weeds. He pretty much trashed my
spinnerbait, but I figure it was worth it.

I'm not sure what it's called, but what happens to me with spinning
reels, particularly wide spool ones when I try a cast just a little
farther than it wants to go, is about 100-200 loops of line come off the
spool all at once and try to make it through the first guide. The abrupt
stop sometimes send whatever was tied on the end off into the deep blue.
Unlike minor backlashes on a baitcaster, there's no way to fix this
mess.
  #12  
Old August 18th, 2008, 10:24 PM posted to rec.outdoors.fishing.bass
Marty
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Posts: 89
Default Baitcasting reels-the attractive antique that reel companies won't admit to


"AJ" wrote in message
.net...

Fished all morning with my trusty Calcutta 150, St Croix 6.5' medium
fast rod, 10 lb. Berkley Sensation, and had zero backlashes, which is
pretty much normal. Sure glad I had it when that Northern shot out from
nowhere, hit the lure 3 ft. away from the boat going like a freight
train, and dove under the boat into the weeds. He pretty much trashed my
spinnerbait, but I figure it was worth it.


I don't know why baitcasting would serve you better than spinning in that
situation if you were also using 10# line and a similar strength rod and
proper drag setting.

I'm not sure what it's called, but what happens to me with spinning
reels, particularly wide spool ones when I try a cast just a little
farther than it wants to go, is about 100-200 loops of line come off the
spool all at once and try to make it through the first guide. The abrupt
stop sometimes send whatever was tied on the end off into the deep blue.
Unlike minor backlashes on a baitcaster, there's no way to fix this
mess.


I call them spinning tangles or birds' nests. I use only spinning these days
but when I used some baitcasting years ago I didn't have many backlash
problems and what I did have were not nearly as bad as spinning tangles
which, fortunately, don't occur that often. If you're getting 100+ loops
coming off at once you may be using a line that's too stiff for spinning
reels and/or allowing loops to form on the reel spool.


  #13  
Old August 19th, 2008, 01:59 AM posted to rec.outdoors.fishing.bass
AJ[_2_]
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Posts: 9
Default Baitcasting reels-the attractive antique that reel companies won't admit to

In article , mart915
@REEMOOVEfrontiernet.net says...

"AJ" wrote in message
.net...

Fished all morning with my trusty Calcutta 150, St Croix 6.5' medium
fast rod, 10 lb. Berkley Sensation, and had zero backlashes, which is
pretty much normal. Sure glad I had it when that Northern shot out from
nowhere, hit the lure 3 ft. away from the boat going like a freight
train, and dove under the boat into the weeds. He pretty much trashed my
spinnerbait, but I figure it was worth it.


I don't know why baitcasting would serve you better than spinning in that
situation if you were also using 10# line and a similar strength rod and
proper drag setting.

Maybe, but I think he would have popped the bail open and taken the
loose line around the lower unit. I've had Northern that follow hit on
an L-turn or figure-8 close to the boat, but this wasn't like that. I
don't know how fast they can swim, but he was really moving parallel to
the boat and hit at a right angle 3' away. I was wearing polarized
glasses and saw the flash or I probably would have lost the rod. Not
real big just ~32" with a bad attitude. IMO the drag on a Calcutta is
about as good as it gets. My 150 is 5 years old, has taken salmon out
Lake Michigan, hauled up a 20lb. catfish, numerous Northern, Smallmouth,
and Largemouth out of the weeds.

I do use spinning as well and have a nice 7' ML on the boat for more
vertical presentations and keep a 6'L in the truck for promising streams
and ponds - I don't think I would use a baitcaster from shore.


I'm not sure what it's called, but what happens to me with spinning
reels, particularly wide spool ones when I try a cast just a little
farther than it wants to go, is about 100-200 loops of line come off the
spool all at once and try to make it through the first guide. The abrupt
stop sometimes send whatever was tied on the end off into the deep blue.
Unlike minor backlashes on a baitcaster, there's no way to fix this
mess.


I call them spinning tangles or birds' nests. I use only spinning these days
but when I used some baitcasting years ago I didn't have many backlash
problems and what I did have were not nearly as bad as spinning tangles
which, fortunately, don't occur that often. If you're getting 100+ loops
coming off at once you may be using a line that's too stiff for spinning
reels and/or allowing loops to form on the reel spool.

That may be, but I suspect it may be from not enough tension during the
retrieve with light surface lures, stop and go retrieves, or when bottom
bouncing a jig. Then a harder cast pulls it all off. Fortunately spool
changes are easy.
  #14  
Old August 19th, 2008, 09:13 PM posted to rec.outdoors.fishing.bass
Mike Getz
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Posts: 40
Default Baitcasting reels-the attractive antique that reel companies won't admit to

"using a baitcaster reel to catch 3 lb. fish is really overkill, like
swatting a fly with a sledgehammer. Sure it will work, but a
flyswatter is a lot lighter and more efficient and less hassle to
use. "

I'm using a ultralight baitcaster with 5 pound mono to toss a 1/16 oz bullet
weight, 1/0 hook and 4 inch worm, I figure it'll put off surgery for me for
at least 2 years. I've had one already on the left wrist from too much
fishing with the spinning rod.





"ANTIQUE AUDIO" wrote in message
...
On Aug 11, 11:55 am, "Mike Getz" wrote:
" the reel handle actually spins when casted, there is no release button
on
it- maximum casting range so far is 60 feet- that's about it"

My Dad used one and I always called it the knuckle buster AND he used a
braided type of line.




I was reading a "freshwater fishing" hardcover reference book- it
states right there in black and white- a spinning reel will cast much
further, a lot easier, with no backlash problems- than any baitcaster
will

what we have with spinning vs. baitcasting reels is, 2 different
schools of thought- the baitcaster was a descendant of the 1800's
"Kentucky" reel and invented in USA- the spinning reel was invented in
Europe in early 1900's

the spinning reel will handle lighter lures and lighter lines, for
catching cunning fish that won't bite if they see the line- current
spinning rods/reels are designed for 12 lb. test or heavier- plenty
for any bass fisherman

where the baitcaster comes into play is very LARGE fish 15-20 pounds
or larger, where the strong reel design and winch action will wear
down/horse in a large fish with less strain

using a baitcaster reel to catch 3 lb. fish is really overkill, like
swatting a fly with a sledgehammer. Sure it will work, but a
flyswatter is a lot lighter and more efficient and less hassle to
use. The thicker line required on a baitcaster to prevent backlash,
will limit strikes on wary fish like trout- I've gone from 4 lb. to 6
lb. test on my spinning reel and got less trout strikes- that's just
how sensitive those fish are to line size and natural drift of bait- a
heavy line turns them off

casting distance- no comparison- I can cast 2-3 times further with a
cheap open face spinning reel, over any baitcaster reel made

baitcasters are much like golf clubs, you use the same cast force with
every lure, but heavier lures will go further than light lures will-
just like a golfer uses same stroke every time, with a different club-
try to cast a baitcaster harder, it will just backlash worse- casting
it smoothly and with even pressure, actually makes it cast further-
and I can cast much further with a sidearm cast, then overhead pitching


  #15  
Old August 19th, 2008, 10:17 PM posted to rec.outdoors.fishing.bass
Marty
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Posts: 89
Default Baitcasting reels-the attractive antique that reel companies won't admit to


"AJ" wrote in message
.net...

Maybe, but I think he would have popped the bail open and taken the
loose line around the lower unit.


Popping a bail open is something I've never seen in 35 years of spinning.

I've had Northern that follow hit on
an L-turn or figure-8 close to the boat, but this wasn't like that. I
don't know how fast they can swim, but he was really moving parallel to
the boat and hit at a right angle 3' away. I was wearing polarized
glasses and saw the flash or I probably would have lost the rod. Not
real big just ~32" with a bad attitude. IMO the drag on a Calcutta is
about as good as it gets. My 150 is 5 years old, has taken salmon out
Lake Michigan, hauled up a 20lb. catfish, numerous Northern, Smallmouth,
and Largemouth out of the weeds.


My friend has a couple of Calcuttas and likes them a lot, but they're not
unique in their ability to land fish. Of course, baitcasters are better
suited for heavy line.

If you're getting 100+ loops
coming off at once you may be using a line that's too stiff for spinning
reels and/or allowing loops to form on the reel spool.

That may be, but I suspect it may be from not enough tension during the
retrieve with light surface lures, stop and go retrieves, or when bottom
bouncing a jig. Then a harder cast pulls it all off. Fortunately spool
changes are easy.


Sounds possible, maybe likely, but the idea is to maintain tension so as to
avoid the loops and changing of spools.


  #16  
Old August 20th, 2008, 01:43 AM posted to rec.outdoors.fishing.bass
AJ[_2_]
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Posts: 9
Default Baitcasting reels-the attractive antique that reel companies won't admit to

In article , mart915
@REEMOOVEfrontiernet.net says...

"AJ" wrote in message
.net...

Maybe, but I think he would have popped the bail open and taken the
loose line around the lower unit.


Popping a bail open is something I've never seen in 35 years of spinning.

I've had Northern that follow hit on
an L-turn or figure-8 close to the boat, but this wasn't like that. I
don't know how fast they can swim, but he was really moving parallel to
the boat and hit at a right angle 3' away. I was wearing polarized
glasses and saw the flash or I probably would have lost the rod. Not
real big just ~32" with a bad attitude. IMO the drag on a Calcutta is
about as good as it gets. My 150 is 5 years old, has taken salmon out
Lake Michigan, hauled up a 20lb. catfish, numerous Northern, Smallmouth,
and Largemouth out of the weeds.


My friend has a couple of Calcuttas and likes them a lot, but they're not
unique in their ability to land fish. Of course, baitcasters are better
suited for heavy line.

Not necessarily. I'm not sure if they were first, but I think one of the
most overlooked features Shimano did for baitcasters is the narrow spool
found on most of their 100 series models. I think that because the line
doesn't come off the spool at such an extreme angle on it's way to the
level wind guide, especially when the guide is at the extreme end of its
travel, there's much less tendency to backlash with lighter lines.

The first trouble free baitcester I had was an old Black Magnum 100.
After it I picked up a Speedmaster Ultra Light Special, used it with 8
lb line and a light action rod for many years. Besides the Calcutta 150,
I also currently have a Currado 100 on a medium light rod, and it can
handle almost as light a lure as the retired ULS.

Until recently the 200 series Shimano's seem like they've been the most
popular, but with the new superlines becoming more common, the narrow
spool 100's seem to be more common.
  #17  
Old August 20th, 2008, 01:15 PM posted to rec.outdoors.fishing.bass
ANTIQUE AUDIO
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Posts: 6
Default Baitcasting reels-the attractive antique that reel companieswon't admit to

On Aug 19, 8:43*pm, AJ wrote:
In article , mart915
@REEMOOVEfrontiernet.net says...





"AJ" wrote in message
l.net...


Maybe, but I think he would have popped the bail open and taken the
loose line around the lower unit.


Popping a bail open is something I've never seen in 35 years of spinning.


I've had Northern that follow hit on
an L-turn or figure-8 close to the boat, but this wasn't like that. I
don't know how fast they can swim, but he was really moving parallel to
the boat and hit at a right angle 3' away. I was wearing polarized
glasses and saw the flash or I probably would have lost the rod. Not
real big just ~32" with a bad attitude. IMO the drag on a Calcutta is
about as good as it gets. My 150 is 5 years old, has taken salmon out
Lake Michigan, hauled up a 20lb. catfish, numerous Northern, Smallmouth,
and Largemouth out of the weeds.


My friend has a couple of Calcuttas and likes them a lot, but they're not
unique in their ability to land fish. Of course, baitcasters are better
suited for heavy line.


Not necessarily. I'm not sure if they were first, but I think one of the
most overlooked features Shimano did for baitcasters is the narrow spool
found on most of their 100 series models. I think that because the line
doesn't come off the spool at such an extreme angle on it's way to the
level wind guide, especially when the guide is at the extreme end of its
travel, there's much less tendency to backlash with lighter lines. *

The first trouble free baitcester I had was an old Black Magnum 100.
After it I picked up a Speedmaster Ultra Light Special, used it with 8
lb line and a light action rod for many years. Besides the Calcutta 150,
I also currently have a Currado 100 on a medium light rod, and it can
handle almost as light a lure as the retired ULS.

Until recently the 200 series Shimano's seem like they've been the most
popular, but with the new superlines becoming more common, the narrow
spool 100's seem to be more common.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -




one thing I found out, was the best way to pitch/overhead cast a
baitcaster, is turn the reel handle upward- this is something most
fishermen don't tell you, and it's also not in the reel directions-
but it is in any old literature about how to cast with a baitcaster
reel- the difference is remarkable- and I gained another 5 yards
casting distance facing the reel handle up during casting. What this
does is, it places the spool in a verticle position with bearings on
top/bottom during the cast, rather than horizontal. There seems to be
slightly less friction and less backlash, and smoother casting.

I still don't see the logic in using a baitcast reel for fish smaller
than 10 pound though, because the modern large spinning reels will
definitely handle up that that size fish and line with ease- and cast
easier, and further.
  #18  
Old August 20th, 2008, 02:38 PM posted to rec.outdoors.fishing.bass
AJ[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9
Default Baitcasting reels-the attractive antique that reel companies won't admit to

In article e0c5a398-802e-4120-9582-
,
says...
On Aug 19, 8:43=A0pm, AJ wrote:
In article , mart915
@REEMOOVEfrontiernet.net says...





"AJ" wrote in message
l.net...


Maybe, but I think he would have popped the bail open and taken the
loose line around the lower unit.


Popping a bail open is something I've never seen in 35 years of spinnin=

g.

I've had Northern that follow hit on
an L-turn or figure-8 close to the boat, but this wasn't like that. I
don't know how fast they can swim, but he was really moving parallel =

to
the boat and hit at a right angle 3' away. I was wearing polarized
glasses and saw the flash or I probably would have lost the rod. Not
real big just ~32" with a bad attitude. IMO the drag on a Calcutta is
about as good as it gets. My 150 is 5 years old, has taken salmon out
Lake Michigan, hauled up a 20lb. catfish, numerous Northern, Smallmou=

th,
and Largemouth out of the weeds.


My friend has a couple of Calcuttas and likes them a lot, but they're n=

ot
unique in their ability to land fish. Of course, baitcasters are better
suited for heavy line.


Not necessarily. I'm not sure if they were first, but I think one of the
most overlooked features Shimano did for baitcasters is the narrow spool
found on most of their 100 series models. I think that because the line
doesn't come off the spool at such an extreme angle on it's way to the
level wind guide, especially when the guide is at the extreme end of its
travel, there's much less tendency to backlash with lighter lines. =A0

The first trouble free baitcester I had was an old Black Magnum 100.
After it I picked up a Speedmaster Ultra Light Special, used it with 8
lb line and a light action rod for many years. Besides the Calcutta 150,
I also currently have a Currado 100 on a medium light rod, and it can
handle almost as light a lure as the retired ULS.

Until recently the 200 series Shimano's seem like they've been the most
popular, but with the new superlines becoming more common, the narrow
spool 100's seem to be more common.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -




one thing I found out, was the best way to pitch/overhead cast a
baitcaster, is turn the reel handle upward- this is something most
fishermen don't tell you, and it's also not in the reel directions-
but it is in any old literature about how to cast with a baitcaster
reel- the difference is remarkable- and I gained another 5 yards
casting distance facing the reel handle up during casting. What this
does is, it places the spool in a verticle position with bearings on
top/bottom during the cast, rather than horizontal. There seems to be
slightly less friction and less backlash, and smoother casting.

I still don't see the logic in using a baitcast reel for fish smaller
than 10 pound though, because the modern large spinning reels will
definitely handle up that that size fish and line with ease- and cast
easier, and further.

It's all in what you're used to and most comfortable with. For fishing
sitting down from a pedestal seat in my boat, I find a baitcaster much
less fatiguing. I typically drift or troll along a deep weedlines or a
group of piers, where accurate casts along weed edges, holes, etc. are
far more important than casting maximum distances out of visual range. A
modern baitcaster is quicker between casts. Reel in the line, push the
button, cast. No bail to flip or backreeling to get the lure the
'right' distance from the tip with the bail in the right position.

But as far as maximum casting distance try this. Take every spinning rod
you have that can handle a 1/8 oz. lure. Tie on a Rapalla #7 original
floating minnow and see how far it goes. Repeat with 1/8 oz. jig, and
with 1/8 oz. spinnerbait with a big Colorado. Or if you want to mix in
baitcasters, try a Rapalla #7 Shallow Shad Rap, a 1/4 oz. jig, and a 1/4
oz. spinnerbait with a big colorado blade. With all but the jig, casting
distance will be limited more by air resistance than anything else.
  #19  
Old August 26th, 2008, 01:07 AM posted to rec.outdoors.fishing.bass
RichZ
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Posts: 191
Default Baitcasting reels-the attractive antique that reel companieswon't admit to

ANTIQUE AUDIO wrote:


I still don't see the logic in using a baitcast reel for fish smaller
than 10 pound though, because the modern large spinning reels will
definitely handle up that that size fish and line with ease- and cast
easier, and further.


Large spinning reels are heavy, bulky, and ungainly. From a retrieve
perspective, the entire design of a spinning reel is a mechanical
nightmare, that unnecessarily takes the energy around two right angles.

If casting distance was of a major advantage in bass angling, there
might be some merit to using big spinning gear. But since it's not, then
there really is no need to burden yourself with a reel that twists the
line, weighs twice as much or more than a casting reel that will do the
job, is out of balance by design, and requires a rod equipped with
gigantic guides.

On the other hand, I love spinning gear for application requiring 6lb
test line or less.
  #20  
Old August 26th, 2008, 03:39 PM posted to rec.outdoors.fishing.bass
Charles Summers
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Posts: 169
Default Baitcasting reels-the attractive antique that reel companies won't admit to

You almost had me worried there Rich!


"RichZ" wrote in message
...
ANTIQUE AUDIO wrote:



On the other hand, I love spinning gear for application requiring 6lb test
line or less.



 




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